FSDT Zurich and PMDG MD-11

[altena]

Hello to everyone,

When approaching FSDT Zurich airport, flying the PMDG MD-11, there are no buildings at the airport. All other FSDT airports don't show this strange behaviour. It only happens, flying the PMDG MD-11, with all other aircraft, buildings show up at Zurich. I also did put this question at the PMDG forum, but did not get a good answer. Hope someone can help me.
Thanks in advance for feedback.

[virtuali]

I really can't find any reason why only one airplane wouldn't work at Zurich which, BTW, was never reported before.

If there was some kind of incompatibility between our .dll module and the PMDG one, you wouldn't had any of the FSDT airports working, not just Zurich, and there would be probably issues like crashing, or the Addon Manager and/or the Couatl menus not showing which, of course, will affect all FSDT airports at the same time.

Have you tried downloading the most recent installer for Zurich, and install that one ?

[altena]

Hello Umberto,

Thanks for the feed-back
I agree, it is very funny. Could you tell me which installer you mean. I have Zurich 1.5.1.0 installed.
If I put all FSX settings-sliders to the left. I see the buildings at Zurich on approach and landing, so I guess, it has something to do with memory (I run Win7 64bit, with 8GB RAM) and don't get any OOM errors. By the way, I red a post from Urs Wildermuth, posted in 2008 about the same problem. Of course PMDG MD-11 is a complex aircraft and FSDT Zurich is a demanding scenery. However, all other FSDT sceneries are also resource-demanding and work fine. It puzzles me very much and I'm really curious for a solution.

Kind regards,
Henk

[virtuali]

If I put all FSX settings-sliders to the left. I see the buildings at Zurich on approach and landing, so I guess, it has something to do with memory

You shouldn't put *all* your settings to the left. At least the Scenery Complexity setting should be at least at Sparse. The first lowest setting will not display anything.

[PFlight2000]

When approaching FSDT Zurich airport, flying the PMDG MD-11, there are no buildings at the airport. All other FSDT airports don't show this strange behaviour. It only happens, flying the PMDG MD-11, with all other aircraft, buildings show up at Zurich.

Hello Henk

I have the same problem with my system. So far I didn't come around any solution... Re-installing doesn't work, with all other aircraft the scenery's fine...

Regards
Pascal

[altena]

Something is definitly wrong with Zurich airport, I'm afraid. Anyway, it was the first airport developed by FSDT and (perhaps therefore) programmed differently from the next FSDT airports. Any chance for an update? I think we need it.
For instance, on approach at Zurich (framerates 30-40), the plane suddenly halts at approx. 6 NM for the touch-down and scenery around the airport is rebuild but no buildings, no trees, only jetways and AI-aircraft. This never happens at Geneva, JFK and all other FSDT airports.

Please Umberto and all of the forum members, feedback about your experience with landing any PMDG aircraft at Zurich (positive or negative) is welcome!

Regards
Henk

[virtuali]

Something is definitly wrong with Zurich airport, I'm afraid.

There's nothing wrong with it. If there was, we would had the forum flooded by complaints. And since is STILL our best selling scenery to date, and considering we sell it in Trial version, if the scenery really had a problem, it would have been apparent from sales, and of course problems reports.

Anyway, it was the first airport developed by FSDT and (perhaps therefore) programmed differently from the next FSDT airports. Any chance for an update? I think we need it.

The only thing in which it differs from our other sceneries, is that is programmed using even more standard methods compared to the latest ones, which of course should be exactly the opposite and, instead, if anything, it should be even more reliable. The only "unusual" thing, is the runway that has a fully custom texture, but this has effect on AI only, which is cured by turning airplane shadows off, and it's not the only FSDT (or other developer's) scenery that requires this.

For instance, on approach at Zurich (framerates 30-40), the plane suddenly halts at approx. 6 NM for the touch-down and scenery around the airport is rebuild but no buildings, no trees, only jetways and AI-aircraft. This never happens at Geneva, JFK and all other FSDT airports.

It doesn't happen at Zurich either. Or, are you saying that this happens ONLY with a PMDG airplane ?

And, I think you might mix two separate issues here: the fact there's a pause when the airport loads, it's absolutely normal and to be expected. What is NOT normal is that, after the pause, buildings are not showing up.

Please Umberto and all of the forum members, feedback about your experience with landing any PMDG aircraft at Zurich (positive or negative) is welcome!

I'm sorry, but we fully test the scenery only with default airplanes. Which is the only way to ensure a proper testing without being disturbed by any other issues.

But, as I've said, considering the popularity of both Zurich and PMDG airplanes, we can safely assume the vast majority of users don't have any problems. Right now, we have just 2 reports here, which it's just nothing considering Zurich has been released in 2007.

An important question: do you run FSX in any of the XP compatibility modes ? Because this shouldn't be done: our software is fully compliant with Vista or Win7 and doesn't require the compatibility setting to be enabled. In fact, this has proved to create issues to Simconnect, which in turn affects our sceneries. But all of them, not just Zurich.

[altena]

Hello Umberto,
Thanks very much for the quick response. I really appreciate the way, you answer our questions and problems¨that fast. However, your answer does not solve this problem.
When I say that this problem only happens when approaching Zurich, then I mean that, under exactly identical conditions (same aircraft, same FSX settings), it does not happen with the other FSDT airports. I'm not really disturbed with the fact that my aircraft halts, while the scenery is rebuilding. But it only happens at Zurich approach, and that surprises me. However, if I should see buldings and trees after the rebuilding, I really should not worry. It only happens with PMDG aircraft (which were not on the market, when Zurich was issued). Still, I really don't understand that it only happens at Zurich.
I don't find it important if you tell me that there were hardly complaints about Zurich. Lot of things (developed add-ons) have changed since issuing Zurich.

That is why I am very interested in forum members having identical problems as I have. I'm also interested in forum members, who can land their PMDG aircraft at Zurich without problems. Really hope they will give it a try and report back. Perhaps this can bring a solution.

Thanks for feed-back.
Regards,
Henk

[virtuali]

However, your answer does not solve this problem.

Because, most likely, there's no problem to be solved. Not from our side, at least.

I mean that, under exactly identical conditions (same aircraft, same FSX settings), it does not happen with the other FSDT airports.

There's no difference whatsoever with the other FSDT airport. You said yourself that it happens only with PMDG airplanes so, it's clearly an issue with the PMDG airplane.

Fact that only happens at Zurich MIGHT depending on ground altitude for this place, or how is the surrounding terrain. MAYBE (it's a big MAYBE), the PMDG airplanes are doing unusual things with Simconnect to create the EGPWS, that might only create issues at places with some rough terrain nearby, that use Simconnect, and Zurich does it.

I'm not really disturbed with the fact that my aircraft halts, while the scenery is rebuilding. But it only happens at Zurich approach, and that surprises me.

No. The pause (JUST the pause) it's exactly the same as with any other FSDT airport. There were plenty of threads about this in all other sceneries folders, just have a look at all the Anti-popup discussions.

However, if I should see buldings and trees after the rebuilding, I really should not worry.

Exactly as I've said before, the pause when the airport loads IS normal and happens with every FSDT scenery.

What is not normal, is that you don't see buildings after the pause but, as you said yourself, it's happening only with the PMDG airplane.

It only happens with PMDG aircraft (which were not on the market, when Zurich was issued).

Exactly. I wonder why, when we release something after somebody else (like PHNL being released after Megascenery) that might have compatibility issue, people expect we fix it, because we went on the market after the other product. So, by the same reasoning, if only PMDG has a problem with Zurich, I think it's just fair to expect they would fix it, since they released it after our product.

With the additional "small" difference that, we DO have a Trial so, everybody can check if Zurich works with his own favorite product, BEFORE purchasing it. I don't really think you can ask for more than this.

Still, I really don't understand that it only happens at Zurich.

I already cited to possibile causes:

- Simconnect issues related to the EGPWS in that airplane that interacts in unusual way with the scenery.

- XP Compatibility mode enabled in Vista. There has been a couple of reports of this and, reverting to default mode (which is NO compatibility settings enabled, which is how FSX installs itself by default) fixed the problem.

Also, does the problem happens with EVERY PMDG airplane (which might lead to think the issue is in their module) or just the MD-11 ? Have you tested the 747 ?

[altena]

Umberto,

I changed the compability mode from FSX-exe fromWinXP sp3 into Windows Vista. No improvement however. I'm unable to localize something like Simconnect in my computer. Do I need that? FSUIPC4 is installed anyway. Could a missing Simconnect be the cause?

Regards,
Henk

[virtuali]

I changed the compability mode from FSX-exe fromWinXP sp3 into Windows Vista. No improvement however.

I haven't say you need to change the compatibility mode from XP to Vista. You need to turn OFF ANY compatibility mode. None of the options in the Compatibility tab should be checked, which is how FSX is set up by default.

I'm unable to localize something like Simconnect in my computer. Do I need that? FSUIPC4 is installed anyway. Could a missing Simconnect be the cause?

Simconnect libraries are inside the WinSxS folder. However, you surely have them because, if you didn't, *nothing* would work, you wouldn't see any menus under the Addons menu, and not just from FSDT.

[altena]

Umberto,
Since I do see these menus, I must have those Simconnect libraries. Disactivating the compability in FSX.exe did not bring the solution. I don't think we will come to a solution for this problem. I don't agree with you if you say that there are only 2 reports about my problem. There are many posts about disappeared buildings at Zurich, you know that too.

That's why I am very curious about experiences of other forum members, flying PMDG aircraft to Zurich. Perhaps this experiences could be posted in this thread. Thanks in advance.

Btw: No hard feelings Umberto. FSDT does a good job!!
Henk

[virtuali]

I don't agree with you if you say that there are only 2 reports about my problem. There are many posts about disappeared buildings at Zurich, you know that too.

Sorry, that's not the case: the other issues you are seeing in the other threads, are always related to either the Addon Manager or Couatl (or both) not running for any reason, and this is always happening in combination by the lack of either of their menus, or both, and doesn't depend on the airplane used.

Your problem is different: you see both menus, which shows the two programs works, you don't see buildings, but ONLY when flying with PMDG airplanes ( again, it's the MD11, or you tested the 747 as well ? ). Is this correct ?

If so, I can only confirm the only 2 reports of this specific issue, are those found in this thread.

[altena]

Hi Umberto,
It happens with the MD-11 and with the B747. It does not happen with Wilco planes. I understand when you say: so it is a PMDG issue. I was already in the PMDG forum to discuss the topic and they say: if all other (also FSDT) airports are fine, then it is a FSDT problem with Zurich. So both of you play the ball to each other and the buyer is the victim and stands aside. Anyway, if PMDG brings out the 737, I will check for sure if it works with Zurich, otherwise it is not bought by me.

There are lot of posts, about missing buildings and OOM's while approaching Zurich (eg Peterle's post, posted at Jan 25th 2010; please check it again and check your answer about FSX default traffic). These are people who fly to or from Zurich, so their bglmanx.dll and couatl work for them. Not right to say, there are only 2 reports. Urs Wildermuth wrote already about the MD11 at Zurich a while ago btw.

[virtuali]

It does not happen with Wilco planes. I understand when you say: so it is a PMDG issue. I was already in the PMDG forum to discuss the topic and they say: if all other (also FSDT) airports are fine, then it is a FSDT problem with Zurich.

Their explanation is wrong, for this  reason:

Our sceneries don't use only the BGL file format, but we do a lot using Simconnect. Which means, with this reagards, our sceneries are just just "sceneries", but they might be considered just like any other addon that uses Simconnect.

So, just to give an example, if you had an issue with, let's say UT2 or FSUIPC, that didn't worked with the PMDG airplanes ONLY, would have you accepted an explanation like "all the other utilities are working", if the ONLY airplanes that had issues where the PMDG ones ? Of course not, it would be clearly something thay had to fix.

We had an issue with Audio Environment, and we fixed as soon as it was reported.

What is interesting is that Zurich, of all our airports, is the one that is made in more "standard" way, compared to the others. Since you said yourself other FSDT airports are not affected by PMDG airplanes, this shouldn't really happen. However, the buildings creation method, is the ONLY thing that is exactly the same across all our sceneries.

So both of you play the ball to each other and the buyer is the victim and stands aside. Anyway, if PMDG brings out the 737, I will check for sure if it works with Zurich, otherwise it is not bought by me.

There's a big difference here: we do offer Trial versions JUST to give users the chance to test what they are buying from us, using THEIR own preferred combination of other addons. They didn't.

There are lot of posts, about missing buildings and OOM's while approaching Zurich (eg Peterle's post, posted at Jan 25th 2010; please check it again and check your answer about FSX default traffic).

As I've said already, "missing buildings" are ALWAYS coming with "missing menus", and are ALWAYS fixed when the missing menu issue is solved, because they are caused by external factors that prevent our software to run in the first place, hence the missing menus.

THis doesn't have ANYTHING to do with YOUR problem, which is missing buildings, with both visible menus BUT ONLY WITH PMDG. It's entirerly different, and it HAS been reported by just a couple of people.

That message from Peterle didn't prove anything, other than he had an OOM message at Zurich, but nothing there indicates is caused by Zurich. As we said, many times already, if you are already short on memory while flying, loading ANY big airport might cause OOM, without this being the scenery's fault.

Not right to say, there are only 2 reports. Urs Wildermuth wrote already about the MD11 at Zurich a while ago btw.

I repeat and confirm that there are only 2 report. 3 if you add Urs ? But what does it change ? Since the issue is the PMDG airplanes, I would expect even more reports. Fact there are so few, indicates than ON TOP of being caused by PMDG airplane, it will probably require some other combination of installed addons, otherwise it would have been more common.

For example, this video shows an approach into FSX Zurich with the PMDG MD-11

Another one:

So, it's clear that FSDT Zurich + PMDG MD-11 usually work together, which just confirms what I was saying all alone: if they didn't, we would have had way more reports. It's probably Zurich+PMDG+"something else" that is causing your problem.