Author Topic: A problem with your installation & update system  (Read 767 times)

ACSoft

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A problem with your installation & update system
« on: September 09, 2021, 12:04:16 pm »
This is a feedback about a problem with your installation & update system for FS2020.

On the occasion of the WU6, I discover that my LSZH didn't had anymore any jetways.

When I bought this addon on SimMarket in november 2020, I had no problem to install it, along with your "FSDT Live Update" application. I remarked that I had a "fsdreamteam-airport-lszh-zurich" in my directory "Packages\Community" and all was OK at that time.

Of course, the first thing I tried after the discovery of these missing jetways, was to run the "FSDT Live Update", but this didn't solved the problem. Reading this forum, I decided to follow the advice to uninstall and reinstall LSZH, but no luck, still no jetway.

Digging in the problem, I remarked that my "fsdreamteam-airport-lszh-zurich" in my directory "Packages\Community" wasn't updated AT ALL ! But that, in the installation directory "C:\Program Files (x86)\FSDT Addon Manager" I had a directory named "MSFS" which contained the new version "fsdreamteam-airport-lszh-zurich". So I copied this version in my "Packages\Community" directory and bingo, I recover my jetways !

Why this happen ? Most probably, because I have moved my FS2020 "Packages" directory on an other disk, in the begin of 2021, after the installation of LSZH, by editing the file "UserCfg.opt" and changing the parameter InstalledPackagesPath to "D:\Microsoft Flight Simulator\Packages" and probably, your application "FSDT Live Update" do not support this perfectly authorized change, documented by Microsoft.

Now, I suppose I should continue to run your "FSDT Live Update" application from time to time and if I see that an update occur, to copy again the new version where it should be. Except if, thanks to this feedback, you correct the problem in the future.

Let me know !

Hope this might be useful for you !

Regards.

virtuali

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Re: A problem with your installation & update system
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2021, 12:33:19 pm »
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Why this happen ? Most probably, because I have moved my FS2020 "Packages" directory on an other disk, in the begin of 2021, after the installation of LSZH, by editing the file "UserCfg.opt" and changing the parameter InstalledPackagesPath to "D:\Microsoft Flight Simulator\Packages" and probably, your application "FSDT Live Update" do not support this perfectly authorized change, documented by Microsoft.

That's not the case.

The FSDT Live Update doesn't read or care or is affected in any way by the location of the installed packages or its changes, and there isn't a single line of code in it that reads that value, because it doesn't have to.

When you install an FSDT scenery using its installer, all files are in fact installed in the Addon Manager\MSFS, the Community folder will only have a Symbolic Link to it, and that's precisely to simplify the updater and NOT being confused but the chance the Community folder location might change.

Now, what I think really happened, instead, is that when you moved the Community folder, you haven't copied the Symbolic links which were created by our installer, or maybe you simply cleared the whole Community folders and, in order to see Zurich again, instead of running its installer OR manually creating the Symbolic link, you copied the whole Zurich folder from the Addon Manager\MSFS folder, which made Zurich to reappear in the sim, but would prevent it to get any further updates, because the FSDT Live Updater continued to keep the the copy in the Addon Manager\MSFS folder updated, RELYING on the fact that it's linked in the Community folder.

Even now, you shouldn't have copied the actual Zurich package from the Addon Manager\MSFS, because this would again prevent you from getting future updates. Instead, you should either reinstall the scenery OR manually recreate the Symbolic link you had when you originally installed it, perhaps using some utility like the free Addon Linker.

For full information, the command line to create a Symbolic link in your case would be:

MKLINK /D "c:\Program Files (x86)\Addon Manager\MSFS\fsdreamteam-airport-lszh-zurich" "D:\Microsoft Flight Simulator\Packages\Community\fsdreamteam-airport-lszh-zurich"

Assuming you installed FSDT in its default folder, of course. This is what our installer does automatically.

ACSoft

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Re: A problem with your installation & update system
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2021, 01:31:51 pm »
Thanks for your explanations, but notice that I have uninstalled from the  Windows 10 Application Managed and then, reinstalled in the default folder, with the exe I got on SimMarket an obviously, what you describe DO NOT OCCURED, So your system has obviously some problems.

Moreover, how can I guess you are using symbolic link ?

What is this symbolic link ? A file ? If yes, which name it has and is it supposed to be located in folder "Packages\Community" ?

And if I change the location of my "Packages" directory, didn't I need, in this case, to redo this link ?

What is also very strange is that I didn't remember AT ALL, to have moved your addon manually. It is not complicate, it was the first time I digged into your system an discovered where was it was installed and also your MSFS folder there.

Now that I know was is supposed to happen, I will retry again all from begining and see.


virtuali

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Re: A problem with your installation & update system
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2021, 01:43:19 pm »
Thanks for your explanations, but notice that I have uninstalled from the  Windows 10 Application Managed and then, reinstalled in the default folder, with the exe I got on SimMarket an obviously, what you describe DO NOT OCCURED, So your system has obviously some problems.

What "did not occured" ?  No Symbolic link has been created using the installer, so you only have files in the FSDT Addon Manager\MSFS folder, but nothing in the Community folder ?

That's not normal, and I'm fairly sure the link in the Community folder IS created. If it wasn't, nobody would be able to see the scenery and, we would have thousands or reports here.

We initially ( when MSFS came out ) had some reports with users installing MSFS with an account and installing FSDT with another account, and this in fact prevented the installer to detect the Community folder. But in this case, the installer wouldn't proceed, saying MSFS couldn't be found.

Also, note that, to really say that no link is created, you must start with no Zurich folder ( linked or real ) in the Community folder. Because, if you have a real copy you made yourself, it won't be "transformed" into a Symbolic link.


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Moreover, how can I guess you are using symbolic link ? What is this symbolic link ? A file ? If yes, which name it has and is it supposed to be located in folder "Packages\Community" ?

It looks like a folder, but it has a small arrow which indicates is not a normal folder, but a link. If you enter it, it will show all files, AS IF they were there, but in fact they aren't, what you are really seeing, are the files that are linked to it, in the original folder ( the Addon Manager\MSFS folder ).

It's really a common practice, it's not something strange or unusual we do ( Orbx uses the same method ) and, in fact, is so much better than just copying the files in the Community folder, that 3rd party utilities like the Addon Linker has been made to CONVERT existing sceneries to use Symbolic links instead of actual folders.

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And if I change the location of my "Packages" directory, didn't I need, in this case, to redo this link ?

No, you only need to take back the link with you! That's the point. The link will always point to the folder it was linked to when it was created so, if you copy the link when you moved the Community folder, it will STILL point to the same place, which is how's supposed to be.

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What is also very strange is that I didn't remember AT ALL, to have moved your addon manually.

You surely must have, if what you reported is true, that no Symbolic link has created by the installer.

If this really happened, the only chance for you to see the scenery, was to manually copy the actual package in the Community so, I guess that when you originally installed Zurich, you didn't see the scenery ( no chance to see it without a Symbolic link to the Community ), so you copied the whole scenery manually, that's the only possible reason why you had a "real" copy of the files which couldn't be updated, instead of a linked copy that WILL be updated.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 01:50:09 pm by virtuali »

ACSoft

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Re: A problem with your installation & update system
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2021, 02:11:44 pm »
Your are probably right I should have copied this and I forget it. Unfortunately my memory, at 74 years old, is not anymore as good as before ! Snip !

I have just now redone all again and GREAT !!! This time it worked. I discovered this famous symbolic link, with the arrow icon ! So everything is back in order !

The previous time I have done exactly the same, but the addon LSZH was still into the Community folder and this is probably the reason why the symbolic link failed to create. This time, I have removed it before to reinstall and it was ok.

Again, many thanks for your assistance.


ACSoft

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Re: A problem with your installation & update system
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2021, 02:35:06 pm »
On more question:

I have just discovered now, that in my "Program files (86)" location, I have 2 folders, both with the same creation date & time (09.09.2021 / 13:42). One is named "Addon Manager", which is empty ?!? And a second one, with all the stuff, named "FSDT Addon Manager".

Can I remove the empty one ?

virtuali

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Re: A problem with your installation & update system
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2021, 02:53:32 pm »
I have just discovered now, that in my "Program files (86)" location, I have 2 folders, both with the same creation date & time (09.09.2021 / 13:42). One is named "Addon Manager", which is empty ?!? And a second one, with all the stuff, named "FSDT Addon Manager".

That's because you uninstalled and reinstalled using different names.

The first time, you accepted the default name, which is "Program files (x86)\Addon Manager", then you uninstalled it and the second time, you changed the destination path to be "Program files (x86)\FSDT Addon Manager", which is now the "real" folder, so you can remove the empty one.

ACSoft

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Re: A problem with your installation & update system
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2021, 03:50:28 pm »
Thanks for the info ! Will remove the empty one.

But, I swear I didn't do all what you said. I have simply, 2 times, uninstalled and reinstalled without changing anything in the default parameters of the installer. Moreover, I told you that both directory have the same creation date & time, so they should have been created, in the same time and this time correspond to my last successful attempt.

Maybe you should check your code.

virtuali

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Re: A problem with your installation & update system
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2021, 03:57:51 pm »
As I've said, the installer has only one default name it suggests, which is C:\Program Files (x86)\Addon Manager. The only possible reason the "Addon Manager" part would change, is if you changed it manually when offered a choice to do so.

We never used the "FSDT Addon Manager", not even in older versions, it has always been called just "Addon Manager" so, if it's not, it's a name you inserted manually, no question about that, and nothing the installer prevents you to do that.

ACSoft

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Re: A problem with your installation & update system
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2021, 04:17:13 pm »
Ok, so i'm a liar. There, I'm fed up of your certitudes !  >:(

Bye.

virtuali

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Re: A problem with your installation & update system
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2021, 04:21:45 pm »
Ok, so i'm a liar. There, I'm fed up of your certitudes !

What is wrong with you ?

- Nobody called you "a liar". You said yourself already once you MIGHT have forget something you did, which is perfectly understandable, since humans can forget things. That's hardly calling you "liar".

- And, you also said "check your code", assuming that when I post a reply, I don't know or check my code, which I obviously have and, opposite to humans, code doesn't do mistakes or behaves differently depending on the mood and, as I've said, several times by now, the installer will accept ANY name you change for the destination folder, unless you don't change anything, so it will be left using the default "Addon Manager" name.

NOWHERE in the code you asked to check, there's the "FSDT Addon Manager" string and, in fact, it's the ONLY thing you are allowed to change so yes, it must have been you.

And no, I don't think you are lying, you just forgot, like you said you have when you moved the Community folder and lost the link, only to realize I WAS right and the link IS created after all.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 04:25:02 pm by virtuali »

ACSoft

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Re: A problem with your installation & update system
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2021, 05:14:25 pm »
OK, I redo all the process again and I found the reason why this happen.

The directory name "FSDT Addon Manager" was created in November 2020. The first uninstall I have done, answered that the addon was successfully removed and I see effectively that the shortcut was removed, so I was confident. It was the same for all other's uninstall I have done. But in fact, it apparently DIDN'T UNINSTALLED all the stuff's, because the directory was still there with apparently all the content.

This is probably why, the new installation decided to use the old name again by itself and I had again the same problem for all the following consecutive uninstallation today, until the last one just now, where I have verified everything and discover this dirty job done by the uninstall function, plus also that the symbolic link wasn't removed ! Bravo ! Marvelous job done by this uninstaller.

So now, I have deleted manually the directory "FSDT Addon Manager" with Administrator privilege, deleted the symbolic link and reinstalled. And this time, I can confirm that your application was installed in a default folder named "Addon Manager".

In conclusion, I didn't do anything wrong. Even if I renamed the installation directory in November 2020, your damned uninstaller should have cleanup all the stuff properly. this is not the first time that I have suffered from very annoying problems due to a very poorly done uninstall process.

virtuali

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Re: A problem with your installation & update system
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2021, 05:26:25 pm »
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In conclusion, I didn't do anything wrong. Even if I renamed the installation directory in November 2020, your damned uninstaller should have cleanup all the stuff properly. this is not the first time that I have suffered from very annoying problems due to a very poorly done uninstall process.

Nobody told you did something "wrong", I only said you forgot you changed the Addon Manager destination name and guess what, you have.

Instead, you are now making a judgement on why uninstaller works in a certain way, before knowing why.

First, ANY Uninstaller of ANY Windows program out there, by default will ONLY remove things that has been installed BY ITS INSTALLER. This because the Uninstaller application is *generated* by the installer, so it contains a list of all the files which belong to *that* installer. Only those files will be removed.

Now, with a system that has constant updates, like ours, it's possible (and in fact it happens a lot), that new files might appear that weren't originally present in the installer, which means they won't be removed by the Uninstaller, and this is 100% standard practice.

Yes, Uninstallers can also offer you a choice of "cleaning up", and purposely remove everything but, we prefer NOT to do that because:

- The Addon Manager folder doesn't contain things belonging to just one product with its Uninstaller, many products installers use it as a shared folder

- Some users make changes to add their custom files, sounds, custom liveries.

For both these reasons, we don't automatically ZAP the whole Addon Manager folder when Uninstalling, to not risk removing something user-created which we cannot have any chance to restore, and with users rightfully angry if we did that.

The only suggestion I can take is that yes, we could probably safely remove a leftover EMPTY Addon Manager folder, that can be arranged.

ACSoft

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Re: A problem with your installation & update system
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2021, 05:56:48 pm »
And please, also be a bit more verbose !

Your uninstaller might say, when starting, all what you explain now.

It might say to you, we have seen that you have changed the installation path, will you remove anyway ? Or we have detected some custom file(s), are-you sure you want to uninstall ? Or, at the end, like many other installer do, the following custom file(s) where not removed.

And what about the symbolic link, there is no valid reason to not delete it.

Instead of that, your uninstaller misleads us by saying that all was uninstalled, when it is, in fact, not the case.

Despite all you beautiful explanations, I continue to think that your uninstaller is perhaps the worst I have ever seen.

Have a nice week-end.

virtuali

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Re: A problem with your installation & update system
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2021, 06:11:14 pm »
Your uninstaller might say, when starting, all what you explain now.

Nobody will read that, you have no idea how many people expects the installer should install in the Community folder, when it's telling them precisely why it doesn't, right in the first screen. Making it more verbose will only worsen it.

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It might say to you, we have seen that you have changed the installation path, will you remove anyway ? Or we have detected some custom file(s), are-you sure you want to uninstall ? Or, at the end, like many other installer do, the following custom file(s) where not removed.

And how we recognize a "custom" file from a file which has been added by the Updater ? And how an installer could possibly know of files belonging to FUTURE products too ? You seem to ignore the fact we are not dealing with a single product, but with a shared folder.

As I've said, he only thing we can remove safely, would be a completely empty folder.

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And what about the symbolic link, there is no valid reason to not delete it.

The Symbolic link in the Community IS deleted when Uninstalling.

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Instead of that, your uninstaller misleads us by saying that all was uninstalled, when it is, in fact, not the case.

The uninstaller is not "misleading" anyone, because nowhere it says it's able to do a complete clean up of everything.

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Despite all you beautiful explanations, I continue to think that your uninstaller is perhaps the worst I have ever seen.

Despite your continuing insistence, the fact is the uninstaller works like any other Uninstaller out there ( not removing anything that it hasn't installed by itself ) and it's correct in not removing anything, considering it's location is shared by many other products and might contain users modifications.

Why you think companies like Adobe, offer SEPARATE "Removing Tools" that are NOT standard Uninstallers and are something you usually download separately ? Shouldn't the normal Uninstaller be able to do everything ?

So no, regardless how many times you repeat it, the only suggestion I can take is, as I've said, we can probably safely remove a folder that is completely Empty, but nothing more than that.

Topic is closed.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 06:13:11 pm by virtuali »