Author Topic: Morphing issues  (Read 1253 times)

Ankh

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Morphing issues
« on: June 20, 2021, 01:19:27 pm »
Hi there, as I am totally lost because none of my attempts fixed this issue, I finally ask for help here. I have huge morphing issues with the Switzerland mesh, surprisingly almost only with this mesh. All other meshes I have installed, especially the ORBX mesh for NZ, do not show comparable morphing issues. However, also the DEM mesh for Switzerland by Troglodytus over at flightsim.to shows the same morphing issues, even in the same place. It seems as something is wrong, restricted to Switzerland or even more, to the region Berner Oberland (where I run all my tests as I know this region best being from Bern). Here are some screenshots illustrating the issues:

https://abload.de/img/screenshot110k3jmj.png

https://abload.de/img/screenshot111ffk52.png

https://abload.de/img/screenshot112slkgo.png

https://abload.de/img/screenshot11825jsf.png

https://abload.de/img/screenshot119ymkzy.png

https://abload.de/img/screenshot122c3k88.png

https://abload.de/img/screenshot1230tj55.png

https://abload.de/img/screenshot124wkjlg.png

https://abload.de/img/screenshot125ndkwj.png

Especially the mountain called Eiger constantly changes shape depending on the distance you are from it, but also other parts morph and take the final shape only when being rather close, sometimes even with huge erros, as seen when flying over the Jungfrau Joch.

What could be wrong here? Why do I see such morphing issues only within Switzerland (and Balearics)?

I checked several things now, none of it did any good, the issues persist:

- turned on and off rolling cache, this has no effect, usually I do not use any rolling cache.
- turned on and off manual cache, no effect, I do not use any manual cache normally.
- played around with terrain LOD sliders and other graphics options, no effect. I usually use almost everything on "ultra" and terrain LOD 200.
- uninstalled all freeware addons via addon linker, no effect
- used the 10m and 20m mesh variants from FSDT, no effect

I am lost. What really buggers me is the fact that I have the same effect when using the 20m DEM mesh from flightsim.to, this indicates that something is still active taking advantage over the meshes, but I have no idea what it could be, as I tried with all addons disabled except the Swiss mesh and the issue persists.

Could there be a hidden rolling or manual cache somewhere I simply do not know but which is still loaded into the sim? How could I verify that there is really nothing else active in the same region? Thanks for any help...
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 12:44:34 pm by virtuali »

Ankh

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Re: Morphing issues
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2021, 08:22:55 am »
Short update: as I am curious, I now did try the CGL Swiss mesh from flightsim.to and guess what, I still see some morphing but basically not even close to what I see with the other meshes for Switzerland. However, I added "001" in front of the default folder name to make sure it is loaded first. I will try this "trick" also with the 20m DEM from Troglodytus, if this almost resolves any issues, I at least know for sure that somewhere something is lurking around messing the mesh(es) of Switzerland up. But hell, how to find this thing then?

Is there any scenery.cfg or something similar where the currently used addons and their location (path) is indicated? I could check there for potentially active stuff not shown in the Addon Linker...

virtuali

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Re: Morphing issues
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2021, 12:57:08 pm »
First, I would kindly ask you if you could post screenshots according to our "Screenshot posting rules" here:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,3076.0.html

If you really want to use an external server, then please use the URL tag, not the IMG tag, because with the IMG tag you are forcing everybody opening your post to download very large images, aggravated by the fact you use .PNG instead of the more compact JPG, and this will be a problem if the poor user looking at your post has some kind of data cap OR use a metered connection.

Also, you posted about this problem on Avsim, and I already replied to you. I'm not sure what else I could say here, other than I cannot replicate it. On Avsim, in this post:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/600890-fsdt-releases-switzerland-mesh-for-msfs-2020/?do=findComment&comment=4541973

You said:

Quote
Ok, now I am utterly confused, uninstalled FSDT mesh, reinstalled the Troglodytus mesh and guess what, exactly the same? Even the same errors, like this one here:

So, according to your report, it seems you get that problem with any mesh, and with FSDT Uninstalled. And I replied to you, showing the same area, with zero artifacts:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/600890-fsdt-releases-switzerland-mesh-for-msfs-2020/?do=findComment&comment=4541993

Another user on Avsim also posted the same area with no artifacts either:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/600890-fsdt-releases-switzerland-mesh-for-msfs-2020/?do=findComment&comment=4542214

So I have no idea why you are getting that strange shapes, but surely they don't come from our mesh, which seems to be confirmed when you said ( and posted a screenshot ), they are there even with the FSDT Mesh uninstalled.

Ankh

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Re: Morphing issues
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2021, 07:58:36 pm »
Well, honestly, I can also provide screenshots not showing any artefacts if I fly around in the specific area until the full LOD is loaded, so screenshots without artefacts are nice but they probably simply do not show the issue. I am sorry for posting the screenshots in a bad way, next time I will do it better.

Why I posted this here in the forums is because maybe some other users will have the same issue and then they might look here first and of course I hoped that you might have had another idea I could check for... it is a very strange situation, as I really tried with everything disabled except the Swiss mesh data and yet the issue persists for both your product and the Troglodytus mesh, but not for the CGL mesh. I have simply no idea, that is why I asked if there is any other possibility to check if in this specific regions something might be active in my sim setup besides checking the folders and disabling all links using addon linker. Something like a file as the former scenery.cfg to check? I do not know...

virtuali

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Re: Morphing issues
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2021, 11:46:38 pm »
Well, honestly, I can also provide screenshots not showing any artefacts if I fly around in the specific area until the full LOD is loaded, so screenshots without artefacts are nice but they probably simply do not show the issue. I am sorry for posting the screenshots in a bad way, next time I will do it better.

Yes but, the screenshot coupled with your sentence:

"I am utterly confused, uninstalled FSDT mesh, reinstalled the Troglodytus mesh and guess what, exactly the same? Even the same errors"

Seems to indicate it's nothing specific to our mesh.

Quote
yet the issue persists for both your product and the Troglodytus mesh, but not for the CGL mesh.

Maybe something in your settings or other installed add-ons doesn't work right with the method we used, Heightmaps opposite to .CGL.

As I already explained on Avsim, while I can understand freeware authors won't have a problem experimenting with .CGL, which hasn't been completely understood and all knowledge of it has been derived from reverse engineering, it's just too risky to release a commercial product using that format. I guess our method is likely less efficient for large areas, but it's a fully documented procedure, compiled with the official SDK. If something goes wrong, we might have a chance to report it to MS or Asobo, but if we find a problem with .CGL, they won't (rightly) even listen to us, considering there's just no supported way to create such files ?

Also, as I've said too, if either the SDK will finally offer a proper tool to generate mesh .CGL files, or the general consensus will be the format has been completely understood and the tools are mature enough, it won't be a problem to release an extra installer in .CGL format as an extra option, like the 20 m option.

Quote
besides checking the folders and disabling all links using addon linker. Something like a file as the former scenery.cfg to check? I do not know...

There's no such thing like the scenery.cfg. The most effective way to search for conflicts is precisely using the Addon linker to disable/enable things. Just don't make any assumption about what you disable, as a test. Personally, when I test something for problems, I disable *everything* in the Community, save for the thing I'm testing.