Author Topic: LFSB Basel ILS flag to runway 33R is wrong **SOLVED**  (Read 3644 times)

earnorbust

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LFSB Basel ILS flag to runway 33R is wrong **SOLVED**
« on: December 01, 2020, 04:58:12 pm »
Your runway 33R ILS flag is falsely named "15R", and points to a small airfield left of the main runway, instead of to the main runway. That small airfield has runway numbers that are turned around wrong. That airfield doesn't show on GPS maps as a runway - it certainly should not be shown as a runway in your Basel airport design.  ???
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 06:24:34 am by virtuali »

virtuali

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Re: LFSB Basel ILS flag to runway 33R is wrong
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2020, 05:21:49 pm »
I don't know what you are using to decompile the scenery but, I can assure you the only ILS that are in the scenery are both associated to the main runway 15, and the one for 33 specifically, has its coordinates precisely on the localizer, and the GP and DME are also correct.

We do have a small grass runway called 15R, which is a grass runway with no numbers or markings of any kind, and surely no ILS associated to it. We already explained in another thread why we decided to include it anyway:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,22868.msg153786.html#msg153786

However, it has no relationship with any ILS.


earnorbust

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Re: LFSB Basel ILS flag to runway 33R is wrong
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2020, 09:54:36 pm »
I use FSTramp, which correctly shows all the ILS flags of your Vancouver, Zurich and Basel 15R runways. The 33R ILS flag points to the small airfield left of the main runway (see attachment). Why should FSTramp misplace anything, seing that it only uses your airport information as a guide line!

There must be something wrong with your runway data.

virtuali

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Re: LFSB Basel ILS flag to runway 33R is wrong
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2020, 06:23:54 am »
Why should FSTramp misplace anything, seing that it only uses your airport information as a guide line!

I cannot possibly say how it generates that flag, but I assure you it's NOT there!

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must be something wrong with your runway data.

I don't know which kind of reasoning is this: when something's wrong, it "must" be our fault, without even considering it might be a problem with that program ?

Find attached a snippet of the actual SOURCE code for the runways and their ILS, with a screenshot showing where those coordinates are in Google earth pro.

As you can see, both ILS are contained inside the Rwy 15 <Runway> tag, and RWY 15L has its own separate <Runway> tag, with NO ILS INSIDE.


« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 05:40:39 pm by virtuali »

earnorbust

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Re: LFSB Basel ILS flag to runway 33R is wrong
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2020, 10:38:02 am »
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I don't know which kind of reasoning is this: when something's wrong, it "must" be our fault, without even considering it might be a problem with that program ?

Sorry Umberto, but that is your reasoning, not mine. As an experienced programmer you surely realise, that no flight developer creates the runway data for thousands of airports manualy by hand. A flight planning software uses an automatic created database, using the required information given by the airport developer! My reasoning is simple. If FSTramp shows your runway information and ILS flags correct for your airports Vancouver, Zurich and Basel 15R, where would the flag information come from for runway 33R, other than your given data. Beside that, you did have this same problem with Vancouver and Basel before you resolved it. The given logic easily leads to conclude, that there must be an error in your data, which is only being automatically processed through FSTramp.

Doesn't that sound resaonable to you?!

P.S. For your sake, I bought the Euroairport Basel from Justsim and attached the FSTramp screenshot of the airport. As you can see, everything is just fine. All ILS flags are shown, as expected. To be honest, I believe that your little airfield is causing the problem.

regards
Robert
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 11:12:57 am by earnorbust »

virtuali

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Re: LFSB Basel ILS flag to runway 33R is wrong
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2020, 12:01:29 pm »
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As an experienced programmer you surely realise, that no flight developer creates the runway data for thousands of airports manualy by hand

And how this ensures that data is always read correctly and the translation from reading the data to displaying it is also done correctly ?

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If FSTramp shows your runway information and ILS flags correct for your airports Vancouver, Zurich and Basel 15R, where would the flag information come from for runway 33R, other than your given data.

But since "our given data" has the ILS on RWY 33 and NOT on RWY 33 L , the only possible explanation is that utility is confusing the runways.


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Beside that, you did have this same problem with Vancouver and Basel before you resolved it

No, we didn't. Basel and Vancouver had a completely different issue: they used True Heading instead of magnetic, so the heading was wrong, NOT the association between the runway and its ILS.

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The given logic easily leads to conclude, that there must be an error in your data, which is only being automatically processed through FSTramp.

No, that logic doesn't conclude anything, other than FsTramp possibly being confused by correct data.

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Doesn't that sound resaonable to you?!

No, because it's based on the assumption our data is wrong, even after I posted you the source code for it, have you even bothered to check it ?

- Is the ILS associated to RWY 33 ? Yes, BOTH ILS are associated to RWY 33.

- Does RWY 33L has any ILS ? No, 33L doesn't have any ILS.

- Have you tried to FOLLOW that ILS IN THE SIM ? It is guiding you on the grass perhaps ?

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I bought the Euroairport Basel from Justsim and attached the FSTramp screenshot of the airport

That doesn't mean that airport is "correct". It only means it missing the grass runway, so FsTramp is not confused anymore by it, and shows the correct information that it SHOULD have shown with our airport too, if it wasn't confused by the otherwise perfectly legal secondary grass runway.

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To be honest, I believe that your little airfield is causing the problem.

Which is inserted according to proper SDK specifications and has no ILS associated to it. If it's confusing FsTramp, then FsTramp should be fixed. I hope you are not really trying to suggest developers should stop including secondary runways "just" because they might confuse FsTramp.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 12:30:53 pm by virtuali »

virtuali

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Re: LFSB Basel ILS flag to runway 33R is wrong **SOLVED**
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2020, 12:17:45 pm »
Here's another screenshot, showing the ILS  lined up with RWY33, following the published heading of 333°.

Why is not guiding me up to the grass runway, if the Localizer was *REALLY* there ?

I made this test to eliminate the chance the simulator itself might be confused by the secondary runway, or a bug in the compiler of the MSFS SDK compiled wrong data from our *correct* source code.  But it's not the case: the airplane ( given the limitations of the current MSFS A320 A/P, which doesn't flare and lands too hard ) follows the ILS on the right path and the right heading, and it lands on the right runway, which means the .BGL has been compiled correctly too and the simulator itself is not confused by the secondary runway.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 12:54:54 pm by virtuali »

virtuali

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Re: LFSB Basel ILS flag to runway 33R is wrong **SOLVED**
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2020, 01:54:04 pm »
I downloaded the Trial version for FS Tramp, and this is what I see with FSDT Basel, the ILS is show on the correct runway.

Are you *sure* you ran the FSDT Live Update recently ? Maybe you still had the previous version, before we fixed the magnetic variation problem ? Even if that doesn't explain why the ILS was shown on the wrong runway, instead of just being not aligned.

Be sure you configure the antivirus to exclude the whole Addon Manager folder from scanning, and be sure your firewall is not blocking the download, and run the FSDT Live Update again.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 01:59:41 pm by virtuali »