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Author Topic: LOC Courses at CYVR (MSFS) are misaligned **SOLVED**  (Read 1192 times)
lonewulf47
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« on: October 16, 2020, 09:22:51 PM »

You might want to check variation used on the MSFS version of CYVR. I have no clue as to how variation and ILS Courses are connected (usually in other Sims LOC Courses are magnetic, here they seem to be true and added up with variation) Therefore all LOC bearings are misaligned by 18. To clarify: the automatically selected LOC inbd courses (this very special feature of MFS, similar to X-Plane) are off by 18. Must be connected somehow with variation. On the MSFS default airport LOC bearings are correct.

Regards
Oskar
« Last Edit: October 27, 2020, 12:43:18 PM by virtuali » Logged
romoni
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2020, 02:20:32 PM »

+1

Running FSDT Live Update not helped.

Rolf
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lucvanasse
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2020, 03:15:30 AM »

Same here  actual localizers courses 26L or 26R is 263' but the localizer course showing on the PFD is 280' .... very weard when braking out of cloud no wind with good crosswind !
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Manny
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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2020, 08:42:38 PM »

I just flew to CYVR ILS 26L and I was placed on a course like 100 feet or so to the right of the runway line.
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lonewulf47
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2020, 12:39:48 PM »

Just to make it clear: this is how it looks e.g. on RWY 08L: RWY QFE is 082, ILS (auto-) course is 100 !


* MSFS_CYVR_05L.png (595.1 KB, 680x535 - viewed 50 times.)
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virtuali
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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2020, 01:42:12 PM »

The ILS in the scenery are surely correct, meaning:

They are inserted using True heading, as they should, with the correct indication of the Magvar. For example, RWY 8L is about 100 Deg True with -18 of Magvar for the area results in a reading of 82 on the instruments.

If the readout on the instrument needles is correct ( and it surely is ), the problem here is ONLY the wrong course automatically set by the instrument, which seems to indicate a bug in the sim ( or the instrument code ) of not taking into account the Magvar which IS correctly set in the scenery ( otherwise the needle would be wrong too ) when automatically set the CRS.

It's *possible* there's a bug in the sim not taking into account the Magvar, but I think we should stick to set the ILS correctly, meaning the heading is set to True, and the Magvar is set because, if we tried to be smart and "fix" the error, by setting the ILS to its Magnetic course and the Magvar to 0, the following will happen:

- Asobo might fix the bug in the meantime, resulting to a wrong readout.

- The Magvar might change with an update, and the readout would be again wrong.

So, I think having to check the CRS to be correct and not relying on the automatic selection is probably the best choice right now, better than purposely set the ILS wrong in the scenery to make the instrumentation happy.
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lonewulf47
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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2020, 02:03:27 PM »

Edit: I must stand correct: FSDT's KORD is affected by the same, but as the MAGVAR is only 4, the error is not so obvious. IMHO this looks like design flaw, but maybe there's another explanation why all other airports are showing correct LOC inbound courses.

Clearly confirming there's a bug in the sim. If we wanted to "fix" a problem we don't have in the first place, we should have set the ILS with its heading as Magnetic and always set Magvar at 0, which is clearly against the specs since:

- Heading for an ILS is considered to True

- MagVar is a separate parameter and it's not optional

« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 02:35:40 PM by virtuali » Logged
romoni
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2020, 02:28:10 PM »

+1
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virtuali
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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2020, 02:31:06 PM »

Well, you might certainly also have an explanation why the LOC COURSES ARE CORRECTON ALL OTHER AIRPORTS, even when using the Asobo/MS default CYVR airport.

There might be several explanations:

- The bug might only happen in add-on airports

- The default ILS database might not include Magvar in ILS and the airplane might use just the Magvar of the *airport* and assume it's the same for all ILS ( a reasonable assumption, yet the .BGL format requires to have Magvar for individual ILS too )

- Some add-on developer decided to purposely set the Magvar to 0. I believe we had 0 at KORD, but the Magvar there is very small ( I think it's 3 deg or so ), so you might not notice a problem like at CYVR.


Quote
The term "...and not relying on the automatic selection" is really a fantastic contribution to the problem. You are probably not aware of the fact that there is NO POSSIBILITY to change the inbound course manually, once you have selected the correct frequency.

Which airplane are you referring to ? If you can change the CRS on an airplane, but you cannot on another one, that's something specific for that airplane, and I'd say it's also a bug that should be fixed, since manual selection of the CRS is always possible in real life, even when the plane usually sets it automatically. Of course, the automatic selection should work in the first place and, again, this is not a scenery problem, rather the airplane code that is IGNORING an information which is PRESENT in the scenery.

I'll repeat it again, this is how CYVR ILS 8L is set in the scenery:

- True Heading 100

- Magvar -18

Which part of this data you find unrealistic or wrong ?
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lonewulf47
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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2020, 02:44:04 PM »


Which airplane are you referring to ? If you can change the CRS on an airplane, but you cannot on another one, that's something specific for that airplane, and I'd say it's also a bug that should be fixed, since manual selection of the CRS is always possible in real life, even when the plane usually sets it automatically. Of course, the automatic selection should work in the first place and, again, this is not a scenery problem, rather the airplane code that is IGNORING an information which is PRESENT in the scenery.

Well, the above is of course not a FSDT issue, as this is a design flaw of MSFS. They tried to coypy X-Plane in that respect, but kept the Auto-LOC course fixed without a possibility to change it. There is nothig wrong in your mentioned data, just the outcome that shows the LOC course at 100 MAG.

But still I would be interested in an explanation as to why on all other aiports (e.g. also Asobos own KJFK) the LOC Courses are depicted correctly.
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virtuali
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« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2020, 03:12:35 PM »

But still I would be interested in an explanation as to why on all other aiports (e.g. also Asobos own KJFK) the LOC Courses are depicted correctly.

I already offered some possible explanations:
There might be several explanations:

- The bug might only happen in add-on airports

- The default ILS database might not include Magvar in ILS and the airplane might use just the Magvar of the *airport* and assume it's the same for all ILS ( a reasonable assumption, yet the .BGL format requires to have Magvar for individual ILS too )

- Some add-on developer decided to purposely set the Magvar to 0. I believe we had 0 at KORD, but the Magvar there is very small ( I think it's 3 deg or so ), so you might not notice a problem like at CYVR.

But we'll surely ask Asobo about this. I really don't feel comfortable feeding wrong data on purpose, just to overcome a simulator bug that might be fixed at any time.
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lonewulf47
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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2020, 03:37:13 PM »

Ok then, let's wait for the outcome. For me at this stage of course CYVR is not useable for full IFR Approaches with a LOC standoff of 18. Maybe someone in the whole MSFS theatre will come up with a solution. As for KORD: it is exactly the same issue, but - as you mentioned - the MagVar is only around -4 (-3.8W), the standoff is not so easily detectable, but still there.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 10:15:16 PM by lonewulf47 » Logged
Manny
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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2020, 07:58:07 PM »

I just flew to CYVR ILS 26L and I was placed on a course like 100 feet or so to the right of the runway line.

Runway ILS 26L is a different issue. My heading seem right on the A320. I am parallel to the runway way to the right almost over the Terminal building

https://ibb.co/tHFRd61
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lonewulf47
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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2020, 10:19:08 PM »

Runway ILS 26L is a different issue. My heading seem right on the A320. I am parallel to the runway way to the right almost over the Terminal building

https://ibb.co/tHFRd61
I don't think so. Unfortunately your screenshot is of no great value as there is no view to the PFD and ND. For proper judgement the view to the instruments is essential.

Oskar
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Michael2
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« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2020, 12:13:41 AM »

The localizers work correctly with the default airport.  I am using an aircraft I am developing and I am manually setting the course and tuning the frequency, if that is any help.

As it is, the addon isn't useable as a destination.
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