Basel in MSFS 2020

[Shack95]

It's much better now but from some disctance and angles it still happens:

https://i.imgur.com/u76hsFm.jpg

In VR it's much more extreme, even though it seems to be slightly better now as well:
https://i.imgur.com/XRwTd3x.jpg

[ACSoft]

Unfortunately, I cannot test, because I bought LFSB on the Marketplace and the Content Manager say that the addon is up to date to version 1.1.1. I have "FSDT live update" which was installed when I bought LSZH directly to you, but it does not include the support of LFSB.

I had the "Object level of details" set to 50 and I tested now with 100, and in this case, at gate 34, building do not disappear anymore on the whole zoom range.

Nevertheless, it seem strange to me that the distance to the object is not the preponderant parameter in this case and it is a bit bad to be forced to use 100 fo "Object level of details", as to reduce this value is known to giving a bit more FPS for low to middle range PC.

Maybe, with your actual tweaking, I will still be able to reduce a bit this parameter.

Can-you update the Marketplace so I can download the new version from there ?

[virtuali]

It's much better now but from some disctance and angles it still happens:

As I've said, I still believe that demanding LOD won't ever show up, even at extremely wide zoom settings, is like defeating LOD's purpose, since by optimizing it for the wide zoom levels, we make it useless when it really matters: on realistic zoom settings used during flight and approach, where fps matters the most.

So, just zoom in a bit.

[virtuali]

I had the "Object level of details" set to 50 and I tested now with 100, and in this case, at gate 34, building do not disappear anymore on the whole zoom range.

That's to be expected.

Nevertheless, it seem strange to me that the distance to the object is not the preponderant parameter in this case and it is a bit bad to be forced to use 100 fo "Object level of details", as to reduce this value is known to giving a bit more FPS for low to middle range PC.

That's how default LOD always worked with every version of the sim.

The distance doesn't have a direct effect, it's the object SIZE in PIXELS that matters, and it's a relationship between its full size as modeled, and the size as displayed ( which depends on distance AND your screen resolution ). And with MSFS, there's another parameter, which is the Object Level of Detail, which affects if further so, for example, if you set it to 50%, all LOD will be half as visible compared to how we made them.

Can-you update the Marketplace so I can download the new version from there ?

We cannot update the Marketplace ourselves. We can only send the updated scenery to Microsoft, which will go through approval first, and then it will be released. The time it takes to do this is not under our control, and right now the MS Marketplace team is on holidays until January 5th, so they won't accept any new submissions before that date.

[ACSoft]

Umberto,

Thanks again for all your interesting technical explanations, but from a customer perpective, I only see that on all the other payware sceneries airport addon I own, including your LSZH, Basel is the only one which have this pretty bad problem (major parts of building disappearing when zoom is set near max backward pos).

I have just tested that right now:
I set again "objects level of detail" to 50 and verified that I had the problem again on LFBS, which was the case. Then, I went on my other payware airport sceneries, on almost 2 different gates, and checked if I had parts disappearing when I change the zoom factor in outside view. None of them had this problem, including your LSZH as I said already. So, for me, it is clear that there is a way to design airport sceneries without this problem and it is for me, the only thing which count. Period.

Nevertheless, I have also tested the impact on my system, to have "objects level of detail" set to default 100 setting and I must say that I don't remarked a noticable impact on the framerate. So, I decided to adopt this default setting now, so I don't have anymore the problem on LFBS.

Speaking of Shack95, I am curious, does the pictures he published here, revealed an other "glass problem" which I didn't remarked myself ?

Finally, the most important is that your airports sceneries are really beautiful, so thanks for that !!!

... and if you adapt LSGG to FS2020, my gratitude will be enormous !

[virtuali]

Thanks again for all your interesting technical explanations, but from a customer perpective, I only see that on all the other payware sceneries airport addon I own, including your LSZH, Basel is the only one which have this pretty bad problem (major parts of building disappearing when zoom is set near max backward pos).

I'm not sure what else you expect we do. We HAVE made a change to the scenery, and if you read the answers of other users that tried it, it was labeled as being "much improved".

The problem is you cannot get the update yet, because you bought it on the MS Marketplace so, it will take some time before you'll be able to get it, but you WILL get it too. Right now, there's the added issue of the MS Marketplace team being on holidays until Jan 5th, so in this case it will take longer than usual but again, how do you expect we should do about that ?

[I set again "objects level of detail" to 50 and verified that I had the problem again on LFBS, which was the case. Then, I went on my other payware airport sceneries, on almost 2 different gates, and checked if I had parts disappearing when I change the zoom factor in outside view.

And what this exactly adds to the whole discussion ? You are using an OUTDATED version, we already fixed that so, what's the point of continuing to repeat the object disappears too early at object level of detail 50 ?

And note that, even after you'll eventually get the fix, the buildings will STILL disappear at extreme wide settings, just later than with the version you have.

That's how the LOD works in MSFS: all distances are reduced by that slider percentage, and that's how supposed to work because, what that slider does is to reduce LODs to increase performance.

It seems you want to eat your cake and having it too: you wanted to get the increased fps possibly granted by lowering the LOD level, but you don't want to suffer from any of its limitations. Basically, you told the sim to reduce the LOD levels, but you don't really want to reduce the LOD level.

Speaking of Shack95, I am curious, does the pictures he published here, revealed an other "glass problem" which I didn't remarked myself ?

I don't know exactly what do you mean with "glass problem". If you mean glass showing over fog, that's a known issue with the MSFS graphic engine ( and P3D too ) that affects each and every other scenery with glass surfaces in fog.

[ACSoft]

I don't expect nothing, I just wanted to tell you that to give to me all your technical explanations, a bit like a justification of what's happen here with your Basel addon is just normal, was UNACCEPTABLE to my customer eyes. Period.

From the start, since I asked to you what you would do for this problem, your answers are angry and not at all professional, like I committed a crime of lese majesty by asking that ! Next time, just appologize for the problem, thanks me to have taken the time to make a video to show you the problem and just say a correction is on the way. Personnaly, as a customer, I don't care about all these complicate LOD problems and so on, I just care about a scenery without defaults of this kind, possibly with all sort of simulator setups.

Now, because of this silly Microsoft validation system and their vaccation, I will have to wait until january to check your correction and this is not my fault !

Personnaly, I would prefer not to continue this discussion. So, if you don't mind, let say the incident is closed.

Thanks to have corrected and a bit in advance, happy New Year !

[virtuali]

I don't expect nothing, I just wanted to tell you that to give to me all your technical explanations, a bit like a justification of what's happen here with your Basel addon is just normal, was UNACCEPTABLE to my customer eyes. Period.[/quote]

Fact you call it "unacceptable", assuming you are referring to the FIXED version, only indicates you don't want to understand the reasoning behind LOD.

I explained that, even AFTER THE FIX, it's just wrong to expect the scenery would not be affected by any quality settings sliders, the Object Level of Detail slider in this case.

In fact, it would be A BUG IF IT DIDN'T and users would have every right to complain if a scenery did that, because they would lose their ability to decided to lower visual quality to gain performances, which is the whole point of the sliders.

From the start, since I asked to you what you would do for this problem, your answers are angry and not at all professional, like I committed a crime of lese majesty by asking that ! Next time, just appologize for the problem, thanks me to have taken the time to make a video to show you the problem and just say a correction is on the way. Personnaly, as a customer, I don't care about all these complicate LOD problems and so on, I just care about a scenery without defaults of this kind, possibly with all sort of simulator setups.

You got it entirely backwards: we haven't just provided proper and accurate information about WHY this happens, AND WE CHANGED THE SCENERY, just a few days after it has been reported. That's the only fact there is.

Now, because of this silly Microsoft validation system and their vaccation, I will have to wait until january to check your correction and this is not my fault !

Sure it's not "your fault" for this, and obviously nobody ever said that.

You that said, instead, our approach to this problem is "unacceptable" and we should "apologize". For what, exactly ? For having made a fix just a few days after the problem was discussed ? For Microsoft taking some time to approve updates ? For Microsoft being on vacations ?

It's not as if we haven't clearly explained the pros and cons of buying a product directly from FSDT or from the MS Marketplace, because we obviously did, many times, for example here:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,24167.msg160563.html#msg160563

[SK10]

I have a problem at LFSB since the latest patch. When I‘m in external view all the glass textures disappear from certain angles (also when relatively close by). In the drone view this doesn‘t seem to happen, even from the same angle and distance. The same occurs in VR. Most of the times all the glass is gone and only from some angles it reappears. I haven‘t encountered this at LSZH (same settings, same flight). Is there anything I can do about it?

Same problem for me. When I zoom out slightly, parts of the buildings disappear. When I zoom in again the buildings are complete again.

Exactly the same problem in VR, 200m away and the terminal is without any detail and glass, same with the tower. No other scenery shows this kind of behaviour with ultra settings. Zurich is similar with the jetways. Tested many other sceneries, only on FS Dreamteam seeing this.

[virtuali]

Exactly the same problem in VR, 200m away and the terminal is without any detail and glass, same with the tower. No other scenery shows this kind of behaviour with ultra settings. Zurich is similar with the jetways. Tested many other sceneries, only on FS Dreamteam seeing this.

You don't say if you have the latest version, which can only be obtained if you run the FSDT Live Updater, which you can only use if you bought on our site or on Simmarket, or if you use the previous version, because if you bought on the MS Marketplace which, as explained already in this thread, will be updated as soon the MS Marketplace team will reopen for submissions.

[Shack95]

Thanks for updating the scenery. I can confirm that in VR the terminal details such as glass textures pop in about 200-400 meters away from the southern end of runway 33. I tried the latest version (just a moment ago) with objects level of detail set to 130. It‘s much better than it was initially but still not entirely perfect.

[virtuali]

Thanks for updating the scenery. I can confirm that in VR the terminal details such as glass textures pop in about 200-400 meters away from southern end of runway 33.

Then I don't think you really have the latest version. You said you tried it a moment ago, but you haven't said if you downloaded it today, because today we had ANOTHER update, and I tried it in VR, and I can confirm that you can see the terminal details even if are parked on runway 33 start position, with Object Level of detail set to 100.

Of course, like anything related to LOD, that setting is not the only one that matters, even the resolution matters, so I guess it matters in VR too. I have a Reverb G2, and I have set rendering scale in the sim to 70, and the terminal still show up fine from the runway threshold.

[Shack95]

Then I don't think you really have the latest version. You said you tried it a moment ago, but you haven't said if you downloaded it today, because today we had ANOTHER update, and I tried it in VR, and I can confirm that you can see the terminal details even if are parked on runway 33 start position, with Object Level of detail set to 100.

Of course, like anything related to LOD, that setting is not the only one that matters, even the resolution matters, so I guess it matters in VR too. I have a Reverb G2, and I have set rendering scale in the sim to 70, and the terminal still show up fine from the runway threshold.

I downloaded the update 20 minutes before I wrote my post, so I guess it was the latest version.
But I should have expressed myself more clearly, by "200-400 meters away" from the runway I meant 200-400m south of the threshold of runway 33 at about 100-200 feet, so further away than the start position you tired. I have a Reverb G2 as well, render scale was set to 60 in the sim and 100 in the OpenXR developer tools.

[virtuali]

I have a Reverb G2 as well, render scale was set to 60 in the sim and 100 in the OpenXR developer tools.

Do you see any different with Render scale at 70 in the sim ?

[Shack95]

Do you see any different with Render scale at 70 in the sim ?

With render scale 70 it looks similar. I can’t tell if it’s exactly the same. When approaching into rwy 33, the textures appear roughly 500 meters before the threshold. On the threshold of rwy 15 I can‘t see them. Only when I move some 300-500 meters towards the terminal do they appear.