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Author Topic: Cloud 9 EHAM version 1.04 Approach Problems  (Read 11177 times)
charliebravo
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« on: November 21, 2009, 07:49:26 PM »

Hello,

I have Cloud9 EHAM version 1.04 installed and activated within FS2004 on my computer.
My problem is that when I look at my FS2004 Map I find the airport (cloud9 EHAM) as having 3 ATIS Frequencies, 4 Tower Frequencies and the following runway designations within the list:
36L(No ILS !),18R (No ILS !),36C,18C,36R,18L,(these 4 with ILS) and also 01,19,02,20,31,21R,03R,21L,04,22,5L,23R,5R,23L,06,24,7L,25R,7R,25L,8R,26L,09, and 27. (What a List!)

As is obvious, from the above, many of these runway designations are not supposed to be associated with EHAM !

As a result for example, I am unable to carry out an ILS approach from the north for runway 18R, with the suggested frequency giving me spurious D.M.E which appears to be centered (Zeroed) in the central area of the airfield, and no Nav 1 glide Slope or Deviation bars are present on this approach to carry out the ILS procedure.


What is interesting is that, when I dissable Cloud 9 EHAM within the Scenery Library, and after restarting FS2004, I look again at the FS Map view I get the following runway designations, 1L,1R,19L,19R,09,27,06,24,04, and 22, which is correct as per the default FS2004 stock EHAM airport scenery.

I can conclude from this that the problem is definatly with my Cloud 9 EHAM Scenery.

I have tried the following without success:

1. Moving Cloud9 EHAM to the top of the scenery list of priority.
2. Deleting scenery.dat files associated with CLoud9 EHAM. (New ones are made on start up)
3. Removing any other AFCAD2 file associated with EHAM. I had one in my FS2004\Scenery\Traffic2005AFD\Scenery folder).
4. Disabling the FS2004 Amsterdman PhotoReal Area from Scenery Library. (in case it effected things, it didn't).
5. I have seperatly tried various supplied Cloud9 EHAM alternative "AI_EHAM_XX-X.bgl" files within the scenery.

All of the above has not corrected the problem.

Can any one help me to solve this issue?  Embarrassed

Many Thanks
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virtuali
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« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2009, 10:13:37 PM »

It was already replied to here:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=2303.0

The AFCAD supplied with EHAM never included any approach procedures.
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charliebravo
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« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2009, 03:01:32 PM »

Hi, and thanks for this reply,

I am only talking about the ILS approach frerquencies, and runway designations which I understand may be part of

the "AI_EHAM_C9-0.bgl" (or other AI-EHAM_XX-X.bgl) files available for use, depending on your preference.

I believe that it could be is this file (it may not be!) that is giving me all or these incorrect runway refferences and not ILS on

some runways (18R for example) within FS2004 for cloud9 Eham.

All I want to ba able to do is carry out ILS approaches on the runways that are supposed to have such, within Cloud9 

Eham Scenery, and have a correct list of runways at this airport within FS2004 Map view.

Thank you one again for your help in this regard.
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virtuali
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« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2009, 03:34:28 PM »

Runway designators and ILS frequency are correct. The only things missing are the instrumental approaches, but that doesn't affect the availability of the ILS itself, only the fact the FS9 ATC will not list any instrumental approaches for EHAM.

The additional non-existant runways are used to open multiple crossing runways, it's the very well known "star technique"

Have you tried opening the file with the AFCAD program ? You can check if the frequencies and runways are correct. If they are, at least you would know it's not a problem of the AFCAD.
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charliebravo
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2009, 02:01:40 PM »

Thanks for the above infomation, I did open the file "AI_EHAM_C9-0.bgl" from within my Cloud9 EHAM scenery folder with  the

AFCAD viewer\editor and it all shows up OK with the correct ILS Frequencies for the relevant runways. So it dosn't appear to

this file that is causing me my problems of not being able to carry out an ILS approach for runway 18R for example.

Can I ask, do you get all the runways mentioned in my first post listed within your EHAM Map\Airport Text View of FS2004 and

is your 18R ILS working OK?

Where do I go from here as this is very odd?

Thanks for your continued support.
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charliebravo
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2009, 01:35:01 PM »

Further to my trying to solve my lack of ILS on runway 18R at Cloud 9 EHAM within FS9, I have uninstalled the Cloud9 EHAM scenery

completely along with the "Add ON Manager" and reinstalled both the Addon manager with version 1.62.0.0 and Cloud 9 EHAM for FS9 with

the version 1.0.4.0.

Can I ask at this point if version 1.0.4.0 is the latest version of the EHAM scenery with all updates added, as I have a downloaded file from

the old Cloud9 Web Sight called, "cloud9_AMS_104upd.exe" (version 7.1.100.1248), is this update no longer required or should it also be

installed?

Back to my main problem, sadly after this fresh install of the product the problem is still the same!

I am curious as to why I have all these ficticious runways listed within FS2004 Map\Airport\Text view as non of my other payware airports

show runways that do not exist, this puzzles me.

Any more suggestions as to what might be giving me my problem which is listed in detail in the initial post on this topic.

Thanks again for any suggestions.
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virtuali
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2009, 02:08:37 PM »

Further to my trying to solve my lack of ILS on runway 18R at Cloud 9 EHAM within FS9, I have uninstalled the Cloud9 EHAM scenery

completely along with the "Add ON Manager" and reinstalled both the Addon manager with version 1.62.0.0 and Cloud 9 EHAM for FS9 with

The Cloud9 installer is old, and so is the Addon Manager.


Quote
Can I ask at this point if version 1.0.4.0 is the latest version of the EHAM scenery with all updates added

The scenery itself hasn't changed, just the installer.  We have updated EHAM with the latest FSDT installer, and it's available on the Cloud9 web page of this site:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/products_cloud9.html

I strongly suggest to uninstall everything (EHAM and the Addon Manager) and use only the new installer, but just to not run into issues with our products, the scenery that gets installed is the same.

Uninstall both the old EHAM and the Addon Manager, then install this installer and nothing else. You can delete your old installer, because it's not needed anymore.

Quote
Back to my main problem, sadly after this fresh install of the product the problem is still the same!

Nobody ever reported not working ILS, and EHAM was released in the summer of 2005, more than 4 years ago: I guess that someone would have noticed not working ILS by now.

As I've said, it's surely another scenery in conflict that is taking precedence. Which is something that you have already verified yourself, by opening the EHAM BGL with AFCAD: the ILS are correct so, the problem must be somewhere else, that's why it's no use reinstall EHAM. You need to find which BGL is in conflict.

Quote
I am curious as to why I have all these ficticious runways listed within FS2004 Map\Airport\Text view as non of my other payware airports

show runways that do not exist, this puzzles me

Maybe none of the payware airport *you* have might not use it, but it's a very well known method to allow simultaneous operations of multiple crossiwind runways. Also, it's not needed if the airport has parrallels runways. It's call the "star technique" and it doesn't have any impact on the ILS, beecause those dummy runways do not have any features like ILS or the like so, they are not the problem.
 

Quote
Any more suggestions as to what might be giving me my problem which is listed in detail in the initial post on this topic.

Using AFCAD IT IS possible to look for other BGLs for EHAM. If you search for EHAM, it should present you with a list of matching AFCAD that are related to EHAM. You should have ONLY 2 in total: the default from Microsoft (which stays in the scenery\EURNW folder ) and the Cloud9 one.

If you have more than 2, remove all the extra.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 02:11:01 PM by virtuali » Logged

charliebravo
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« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2009, 08:01:17 PM »

Thank you for this infomation, it is much appreciated.

After checking the files that appear within the afcad program relating to EHAM I did find not 2 but 3 files associated with EHAM. This was after a complete Deinstall and Reinstal of the cloud9 Eham scenery downloaded from the cloud9 web site along with the Add-on Manager.

However, yes there is the FS2004 stock EHAM scenery which is in the FS9\Scenery\EURW\Scenery folder. There is the Cloud9 file which is in the FS9\cloud9\Amsterdam\Scenery folder.

However there is also a 3rd file called "fix.bgl" which is located in the FS9\Cloud9\Amsterdam\terrain\Scenery folder and it is put there as part of the Cloud9 EHAM installation. This file only contains a small cross when opened into the afcad program. I assume it is needed for some reason as it is part of the install process.

The problem with runway 18R ILS Frequency of 110.10 is actually flying me (following the D.M.E. to a point near the center of the airport.

On looking closer at the supplied default "AI_EHAM_C9-0.bgl" afcad file opening it within the afcad program I find that there is a double ILS Frequency! 1 for runway 18R and 1 for a small runway designated 23 with ILS\DME with an inbound course of 224* This small unused runway appears to have priority hence the tunning of Nav 1 in the FS2004 radio stack to 110.10 will not activate runway 18R's ILS !

Can I ask you to check my findings from within your own Cloud9 EHAM default inastalled "AI_EHAM_C9-0.bgl" file.

I am not confident at editing afcad files so can I request that you make avaiable for download via this topic, or e-mail me direct (charliebravo@lineone.net) your correctly working version of the file "AI_EHAM_C9-0.bgl" after first kindly checking that runway 18R is actually working with ILS Frequency 110.10.

I thank you for your continued support and valuable help in sorting this problem out.

Regards
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 08:42:08 PM by virtuali » Logged
virtuali
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« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2009, 08:55:40 PM »

However there is also a 3rd file called "fix.bgl" which is located in the FS9\Cloud9\Amsterdam\terrain\Scenery folder and it is put there as part of the Cloud9 EHAM installation. This file only contains a small cross when opened into the afcad program. I assume it is needed for some reason as it is part of the install process.

This is not a problem. It just contains 5 waypoints the were needed, but no navaids or ils.


Quote
On looking closer at the supplied default "AI_EHAM_C9-0.bgl" afcad file opening it within the afcad program I find that there is a double ILS Frequency! 1 for runway 18R and 1 for a small runway designated 23 with ILS\DME with an inbound course of 224* This small unused runway appears to have priority hence the tunning of Nav 1 in the FS2004 radio stack to 110.10 will not activate runway 18R's ILS !

No, there isn't.

You are being misleaded into thinking that the double frequency is inside the AI_EHAM_C9-0.bgl, because it appears there when you open it.

However, this is not how the AFCAD works. Since the program is supposed to help you making modifications to the default scenery and saving them into a .BGL you are working on, and NOT to touch other .BGL, when you open a file related to an airport, the AFCAD will not show *only* navaids that are contained in the file you are opening, but also other navaids coming from other .BGL you have installed for the same airport.

When you MOVE such navaids with the mouse, or you just edit them to change any parameter, AFCAD understands you want to override that navaid so, it will make a COPY into the current BGL you are working on, with your modifications so, if this .BGL has the precedence in the scenery library, it will show up instead of the old one. So you reach the goal of modifying existing scenery (even the default one) without touching other files.

I've verified the actual decompiled AI_EHAM_C9-0.bgl file that we are distributing right now in the installer, and assure you there are NO double ILS frequencies. Also, there's no rwy 23. There's a 23L and a 23R, but none of them has an ILS.

So, it means those duplicates ILS you see are NOT coming from the AI_EHAM_C9-0.bgl file, but from somewhere else, and I think those are indeed the problem.

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charliebravo
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« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2009, 11:25:20 PM »

I thank you again for your explination but at the end of the day I am at a loss as to how to solve this problem.

I thought it was best if I show to you what I see in Map View within FS2004 at EHAM Airport. And I can verify once again that I only have 3 files to select from within the afcad program, 1 is the cloud9 EHAM scenery, the 2nd is the file called
"fix.BGL which is part of the Cloud9 EHAM installed files (in Cloud9\AMSTERDAM\terrain\sceney folder), the 3rd being the stock FS2004 file.

Here are the pictures I took with a camera as I couldn't get "print Screen" to work with these views showing.
The pictures show what I see within FS2004 Map View. Notice the runway 23 in the Map view with it's ILS Frequency etc:





* Facility Infomation 1.JPG (212.3 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 758 times.)

* Facility Infomation 2.JPG (209.37 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 763 times.)

* Facility Infomation 3.JPG (205.54 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 741 times.)

* Facility Infomation 4.JPG (197.77 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 709 times.)

* Facility Infomation 5.JPG (206.95 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 739 times.)

* FS9 EHAM MAP View.JPG (194.62 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 863 times.)
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virtuali
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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2009, 12:46:06 AM »

Maybe I found what the issue is and, guess what, it's another product in conflict.

There were posts about it in the old Cloud9 forum:

http://forum.fscloud9.it/viewtopic.php?t=5056
http://forum.fscloud9.it/viewtopic.php?t=4547

Do you have Schiphol helipad Afcad file from Traffic 2005 or other versions ? If yes, remove it.
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charliebravo
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« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2009, 08:21:28 PM »

You found the problem ! Well Done.

The problem was caused by my installed "Traffic 2005" addon for FS9.

Removing the file called "AF2_JFEH.bgl" from the FS9\Scenery\Traffic2005AFD\Scenery folder brought back my ILS for runway

18R at Amsterdam Schiphol.

Your help is much appreciated in getting to the bottom of this problem and finding a fix for it.

Thank You and Best Wishes !
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