Author Topic: KORDv2, strange FPS issue  (Read 8679 times)

Morten

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KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« on: September 01, 2019, 05:06:40 pm »
Hi there

I'm having a strange issue with KORDv2 and PMDG 777 which NOT appear in airports from other developers with the same aircraft in use.
The FPS is perfectly okay within the VC cockpit. But if I then open up an extra window - for instance the "Lower Overhead" window, the FPS will be cut down in almost half!
Undocking the window don't make any difference. What the heck is going on here?

My PC is new and fast with these specs:

ASUS PRIME Z370-P
Intel Core i9 9900K / 3.6 GHz Coffee Lake
ASUS ROG-STRIX-RTX2080-O8G-GAMING - NVIDIA

Windows 10 Pro 64bit
P3Dv4.5 (locked framerate: 15 FPS)
ORBX OpenLC North America
PMDG 777-200 



senchay

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Re: KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2019, 07:05:05 pm »
just a guess now, from own experiences with other scenery and planes.

This happens in other situations/scenery/planes as well, maybe with your pc you doesnt recoginze it because it wont max out when opening a second view. In my case for example (see specs below) i get the same behavior when, for example, i have to open a second vc view to fly the TFDI 717 without ctds.

In case you dont know what im talking about, the 717 has a very annoying ctd bug and one of the solutions is to open a 2. view with the vc in it. If i do that my fps go down by around 10 to 15 fps. If i have 45 fps on the gate it will go down to 30-37 (on any gate on a more detailed airport).

Since KORD seems pretty detailed and need lots of vram i can imagine that its too much here even for your system and it begins to decerase fps. Besides that, if you do that 15 fps lock (...) inside p3d this can also be the reason. Try locking with Rivatuner or something, that should take less fps and give a more smooth result.

System:

7700k,
RTX 2080
16GB Ram


Morten

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Re: KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2019, 01:22:45 am »
just a guess now, from own experiences with other scenery and planes.

This happens in other situations/scenery/planes as well, maybe with your pc you doesnt recoginze it because it wont max out when opening a second view. In my case for example (see specs below) i get the same behavior when, for example, i have to open a second vc view to fly the TFDI 717 without ctds.

In case you dont know what im talking about, the 717 has a very annoying ctd bug and one of the solutions is to open a 2. view with the vc in it. If i do that my fps go down by around 10 to 15 fps. If i have 45 fps on the gate it will go down to 30-37 (on any gate on a more detailed airport).

Since KORD seems pretty detailed and need lots of vram i can imagine that its too much here even for your system and it begins to decerase fps. Besides that, if you do that 15 fps lock (...) inside p3d this can also be the reason. Try locking with Rivatuner or something, that should take less fps and give a more smooth result.

System:

7700k,
RTX 2080
16GB Ram



Hi senchay

Thank you for your interest and answer. But as I wrote, this issue does NOT appear in airports from other developers with the same aircraft in use.

As for vram, I simply can't imagine FSDT as intelligent professionals starting up a whole new project dedicated entirely for P3Dv4 would act as complete maniacs and build in a waste of unimportant details being too hard to handle even for this new powerful PC of mine....at least I don't hope so!       

virtuali

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Re: KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2019, 11:13:57 am »
Thank you for your interest and answer. But as I wrote, this issue does NOT appear in airports from other developers with the same aircraft in use.

As explained, so many times already, it's just wrong to compare different airports located in difference places. In addition to that, in this case it's even more wrong, since there's nothing to compare against with, namely a fully PBR scenery not derived from an old product, since there are none out there, and surely not of this size.

As discussed several time, and of course as explained in the KORD manual, a proper PBR scenery ( or aircraft ) will require more VRAM than a non-PBR scenery, this because each object will require the full complement of Albedo+Metallic+Normal textures, while non-PBR products often use just a Diffuse texture.

The "other airports from other developers" might just be taking a bit less of VRAM, and with your settings and the rest of the loaded stuff might just barely fit your available VRAM

This means, if your VRAM has already partly taken by other stuff ( the airplane, the surrounding scenery ) combined of course with your settings, which might have been set too high because you tuned them for non-PBR products, if you cross the boundary between "everything fits in VRAM" and "not everything fits in VRAM", the fps will go down a lot.

Quote
As for vram, I simply can't imagine FSDT as intelligent professionals starting up a whole new project dedicated entirely for P3Dv4 would act as complete maniacs and build in a waste of unimportant details being too hard to handle even for this new powerful PC of mine....at least I don't hope so! 

That's why we put the minimum requirements to use the scenery in ifs full resolution at 8GB of VRAM, and why there's a section on the KORD manual which explains which settings might affect VRAM consumption the most.

Morten

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Re: KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2019, 11:35:15 pm »
Umberto, it's not new to us that you through the years tend to reject ANY criticism whatsoever to your product line, even though obvious problems occurs here and there. So I would be very surprised if this time was different. With that approach one might wonder why you from time to time update your products when everything in your eyes works so perfectly right from start!

As it is you have all the time had issues with FPS in the US area - with or without PBR! That's a plain fact and I know what I'm talking about as I own most of your products. It's simply pathetic you all the time reject that anything is wrong to your products and blame us the users for our poor setup instead of looking into your products for issues causing lack performance again and again - this time, in my case, moving from a middle configuration to a brand new highend system including i9 processor and nvidia 2080. Again, all my fault. How dare you!
Umberto I've had it! I simply can't use this airport as it is, and I demand a refund.

You are claiming that I can't compare other airports without PBR. But Umberto I DO have other airports with PBR without any issues and with same settings - among these Imaginesims Singapore Intl.               

VHHHflyer

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Re: KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2019, 02:03:23 am »
PBR without any issues and with same settings - among these Imaginesims Singapore Intl.               

This is kind of funny, that is one of the airports that has a LOT of PBR bugs, and even the Devs blame LM for most of them. It is the first airport i had to actually uninstall as it was unusable.

KORD works fine for me on a GTX1080, although i agree with the previous replies that 8GB VRAM just isnt enough nowadays, doesn't matter if its 8GB on a 1080 or a 2080.

Maybe you should turn down some settings.

virtuali

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Re: KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2019, 10:43:03 am »
It's simply pathetic you all the time reject that anything is wrong to your products and blame us the users for our poor setup instead of looking into your products for issues causing lack performance again and again - this time, in my case, moving from a middle configuration to a brand new highend system including i9 processor and nvidia 2080. Again, all my fault. How dare you!

If you want to see how KORD really look like with the proper hardware and the proper settings, check these two incredible videos down here:





Be sure you see them in full screen on YouTube, because they are both 4K in extremely high quality and won't work in a window. I haven't done these myself, they are made by Rob Ainscough (robains on this forum), maybe you ask him some tips of to properly setup your system to run what is in fact the best showcase of what a proper PBR scenery should look like.

Incredible quality, day and night.

Extremely good fps, with AI and a complex airliner.

That's KORD V2 for you.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 10:45:47 am by virtuali »

Morten

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Re: KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2019, 07:35:04 pm »
Amazing, I fully agree.
Same thing as here, also 4K and absolutely no problem running this airport in fullscreen over two monitors, each 3840x1080.

BUT if we stick to what was my actual issue here from the beginning, namely the strange behaviour when opening up an extra window - for instance the "Lower Overhead" window, the FPS will be cut down in almost half - THIS is what the annoying issue is all about which is not happening anywhere since I got my new powerful PC (that is however, only apart from Heathrow from UK2000 based on silly outdated FSX textures). What's notable here, is that exactly the same issue happened all the time, anywhere, with my old PC with poor Radeon graphic installed.
The thing is that two extra windows is absolutely essential for my cockpit setup, dragging these two views to other monitors - works okay everywhere else but not here.
So if its a question of Vram running out within the whole 8 GB range in this particular airport of yours (because of PBR and needless details, whatever) your answer would be to sell my current 2080 "standard" version and by me self a 2080TI 11 GB version just in order to tackle your KORD version, is that it?! Or do you by any chance have any other constructive solution?    
  
        
« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 07:41:53 pm by Morten »

senchay

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Re: KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2019, 09:14:25 pm »
i would have an easy solution.... Dont open a second view^^.

Im not sure about the Overhead panel view" because i never used it but i woud guess that it doesnt only have the overheadpanel but also renders other (maybe invisible) things. ANd if one is near maxed in Vram (what you probably are) it could mean that any simple thing thats added will be too much.

For you its the overhead, others with less vram already would have issues way before that.

Morten

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Re: KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2019, 12:03:06 am »
Hi Senchay

Thank you indeed for your interest and your will for sorting out problems, but with all respect i would prefer to keep this correspondence with Umberto, as part of the developer team.
Thanks.   

Beat578

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Re: KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2019, 07:52:30 am »
Hi Senchay

Thank you indeed for your interest and your will for sorting out problems, but with all respect i would prefer to keep this correspondence with Umberto, as part of the developer team.
Thanks.   

You tell Umberto he's ignorant and rant on people that try to help you? By all respect, how would you seek help that way.
Anyway Umberto already gave you an answer of where the problem meight be. It's not only the speed of the Processor that makes the difference, it's also the Amount of vram. Your new Card still only has 8 GB of VRAM as far i see from the specs. So if the computer has to share VRAM with physical ram, your frames will  drop, not matter how fast your Processor and Graphicsprocessor is. Mabe not that much as before, but it still drops. I had the same problems with other airports as well and had to adjust graphics just up to that point it started to stutter. Now I am fine, even when i use another simulator and use Prepar3d just as "scenery donator" for that one....
Beat578

Morten

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Re: KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2019, 06:38:57 pm »
Hi Senchay

Thank you indeed for your interest and your will for sorting out problems, but with all respect i would prefer to keep this correspondence with Umberto, as part of the developer team.
Thanks.   
You tell Umberto he's ignorant and rant on people that try to help you? By all respect, how would you seek help that way.
Anyway Umberto already gave you an answer of where the problem meight be.

Oh dear....Didn't seem to get the message, did you?!, obviously not! Anyway your answer didn't get us any closer to the actual issue whatsoever. Besides, I'm pretty sure that Umberto and everyone else here are fully capable of speaking for themself, so please go elsewhere with your Mother Theresa syndrome.

Umberto as it seems that I'm not getting any closer to solve the actual issue here you might as well close this topic and leave it unsolved.
Anyway, I have no further comments to the subject, at least not inside here! 



     

rjlfry

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Re: KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2019, 11:30:31 pm »
If your CPU is running at 3.6ghz then your PC is CPU bound putting a 2800ti would not help.

Dave_YVR

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Re: KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2019, 11:41:23 pm »
If your CPU is running at 3.6ghz then your PC is CPU bound putting a 2800ti would not help.
3.6ghz is just the base frequency, it rarely ever runs that low and boosts on it's own to 5.0ghz without overclocking. The 9900K is currently the best CPU available for P3d.

virtuali

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Re: KORDv2, strange FPS issue
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2019, 02:02:01 pm »
Umberto as it seems that I'm not getting any closer to solve the actual issue here you might as well close this topic and leave it unsolved.  Anyway, I have no further comments to the subject, at least not inside here! 

I thought there was already an accepted answer: you said you opened a 2nd window and, of course, that has a very big impact on fps, because everything must be rendered twice, it's like going from normal mode to VR in P3D, the fps will drop sharply and,  you will usually have to use dedicated (lower) settings, to use in VR.

We set 8GB as the minimum requirement, but that doesn't mean "regardless how many windows you open" because that's just another variable in the way you use your simulator, it would be impossible to make a whole page of system requirements such as:

- KORD requires 7GB, if you run Autogen at High
- KORD requires 7.5GB, if you run Autogen at Very High
- KORD requires 6.0GB, if you run use 2K textures.

And so on and on, for all the thousands of potential combinations of settings, which all contributes to the system resources required. Opening a 2nd window it's just another thing that has its cost so, it will be up to you to decide if you really need new hardware, or you can live with OTHER settings being lowered, if the 2nd window is so important.