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Author Topic: With the latest patch, GSX can't properly pushback PMDG's 747-8  (Read 1076 times)
airbadger
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« on: July 06, 2019, 03:57:18 AM »

This has happened to me twice now... I haven't customized the pushback at all, just letting GSX use the AFCAD. It happened at PACSIM's RKSI and ImagineSim's WSSS. I've never seen GSX do this until the latest update.

Screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/dDKNtNW


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virtuali
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2019, 11:51:10 AM »

If you really haven't customized the pushback before, so it used the standard Left/Right logic, it's possible a BUGFIX that we added to it to fix crashes in other airports, has made the automatic Pushback not working on a particular airplane in a particular airport, like in your case.

As explained so many times on the forum, it's simply not possible to have an automatic pushback that would work *everywhere*, based on 3rd party AFCADs, which might be made in the most different ways.

But while this might have been a problem with older version, the new Custom Pushback will surely be able to fix every Pushback, since you can create a custom route NOT reliant on the underlying AFCAD.
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413x3
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2019, 12:01:21 PM »

The large swing on pushback was a bugfix? I have never seen anything wrong before. Now at every airport the large swing of the pushback truck to over-do the turn means at every airport the heavy aircraft is being first pushed into the grass as it does the large swing around to go back on the taxiway. I really would not like to have to create a custom pushback at every single airport I fly a 747 to.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 12:03:20 PM by virtuali » Logged
virtuali
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2019, 12:11:50 PM »

The large swing on pushback was a bugfix? I have never seen anything wrong before.

You don't seem to understand. I said it might have been a fix reported by another user for ANOTHER airport or another airplane. The "large swing" on pushback WAS precisely a problem of the OLD version. But we haven't fixed this automatically, because it just cannot be done.

When you see such swing, it means that pushback was impossible to do given how the AFCAD was made and the total length of the airplane +  pushback vehicle + eventual towbar.

This cannot be "fixed", we could only change the strategy we have to remove wrong nodes, overlapping nodes, wrong links, unconnected aprons, and all that sort of mistakes found in 3rd party AFCAD. What I said is that, to FIX mistakes in the AFCAD that would result in the pushback crashing with an error in OTHER place, might have resulted in the automatic pushback not working with extremely large airplanes, which almost invariably require some kind of special pushback in real life too.

Quote
Now at every airport the large swing of the pushback truck to over-do the turn means at every airport the heavy aircraft is being first pushed into the grass as it does the large swing around to go back on the taxiway. I really would not like to have to create a custom pushback at every single airport I fly a 747 to.

No, it doesn't do that in "every" airport (especially because you cannot possibly have tested them all). It's likely does it *there*, because that position was clearly more difficult than usual, being at an angle, so it's the exception, not the norm, and it's a texbook case for a Custom Pushback.

Exactly as in real life, there are not many airports that can *accept* a 747-8, and those that can, only on a very few gates. So no, you don't have to customize the pushback on "every airport", but on the FEW gates that can use a 747-8, and only on the airports that can take the 747-8.
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413x3
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2019, 02:56:31 PM »

I fly at cargo aprons and now every pushback it swings me too far to the opposide side it puts me in the grass. As Singapore Cargo ramp I will put up a picture when I land stand 602, pushing tail right nose left. the big swing when turning puts me in the eastern grass before the plane comes back to on the taxiline. Before the update the pushback was fine.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 02:57:53 PM by virtuali » Logged
virtuali
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2019, 03:00:35 PM »

I fly at cargo aprons and now every pushback it swings me too far to the opposide side it puts me in the grass

No, it doesn't. It does it only a the few gates you might have tried, and you are assuming it does it everywhere.

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As Singapore Cargo ramp I will put up a picture when I land stand 602, pushing tail right nose left. the big swing when turning puts me in the eastern grass before the plane comes back to on the taxiline.

You don't say which airport you are referring to so, as explained so many times before, it's impossible to say what my be the problem in that specific case. Clearly indicate the airport used, and it's not default, help identify the scenery.

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Before the update the pushback was fine.

I think I already explained, quite clearly, why this might have been changed: to fix more serious problems that would result in a *crash* in OTHER airports.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 03:04:15 PM by virtuali » Logged

virtuali
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2019, 03:20:19 PM »

Since there was no indication of which scenery was used, I tried a pushback with the default Singapore airport, which has only 2 cargo parking positions  ( Parking 2 and 6 ), I chose 2, selected "Right" ( tail right nose left ), and it did a perfect pushback, with no swings and without touching the grass.

Yes, of course, the airplane is very long, so it could follow the curved line exactly, it went a bit large, but it was otherwise perfectly normal.

That is without customizing the pushback. With a customization, in Free mode, it can be made just perfect, by moving the approach corner closer to the parking spot.
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airbadger
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2019, 03:33:42 PM »

Well, I hope in the future that the default left/right pushbacks can work properly with large aircraft again. 90% of the time the default options worked great in previous versions when pushing back from spots clearly designed for heavies. Now, it sounds like I need to create a custom pushback every time unless I use the same spots over and over again.
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virtuali
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« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2019, 03:36:52 PM »

Well, I hope in the future that the default left/right pushbacks can work properly with large aircraft again. 90% of the time the default options worked great in previous versions when pushing back from spots clearly designed for heavies. Now, it sounds like I need to create a custom pushback every time unless I use the same spots over and over again.

As I've said in my previous post, the default pushback in a default airport using the 747-8, works just fine, it simply made a curved a bit larger, but nowhere the truck swayed around, let alone pushed into the grass.

The customization only made it "perfect", but it wasn't required at all to make a reasonable pushback.
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airbadger
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« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2019, 03:54:55 PM »

Ok, but in my usage of heavy aircraft since the patch (777 and 747-8), I've gotten consistently worse results from using the default pushback option compared to the previous patch. This doesn't mean it will fail every time (as your experience notes), but it now means I should probably just go ahead and set up a custom pushback for every flight. If it used to work fine 90% of the time and now it works maybe 50% of the time, I might as well not take my chances with it.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 03:57:36 PM by virtuali » Logged
virtuali
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« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2019, 04:03:48 PM »

Ok, but in my usage of heavy aircraft since the patch (777 and 747-8), I've gotten consistently worse results from using the default pushback option compared to the previous patch.

I highly doubt the previous version would have been able to push an airplane that large perfectly, it would surely make a somewhat larger curve.

Again, I can only refer to my test using the default Singapore scenery, which is a very simple parking so no, in that case, it's not a question of GSX having changed the default pushback because, what might have changed, would only possibly affect 3rd party sceneries with a lot of nodes close together but, in the default scenery I tested, there wasn't any alternative so, nothing in the update could possibly affect this, and the pushback was reasonable, but not "perfect". That would require a customization even in a previous version, a customization that is now easier and more flexible so on, even the previous version couldn't do a perfect pushback with no customization.

But as I've said, several times by now, on a 3rd party scenery with many more nodes than a default, something might have changed, and of course for the better, because it might have resulted in errors and crashes in the previous version, mabye in OTHER airports. So, clearly, it's more important to prevent crashes, and this might possibly affect the default choice of nodes on some 3rd party airports, when there are many of them to choose from.

Quote
This doesn't mean it will fail every time (as your experience notes), but it now means I should probably just go ahead and set up a custom pushback for every flight. If it used to work fine 90% of the time and now it works maybe 50% of the time, I might as well not take my chances with it.

As I've said in my previous message, it works fine with the current version, and it doesn't show any of the problems you reported. It's not by any means perfect, but it's absolutely reasonable. The the whole point of having a customization to begin with, is for those wanting to change "reasonable" into "perfect", which is clearly possible now, and it wasn't before.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 04:05:54 PM by virtuali » Logged

413x3
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« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2019, 11:52:54 PM »

Must be lucky I had not a problem using the pushback in the previous gsx version.
This is what happens at every airport in the PMDG 747 and 748 when the taxiway has grass on the other side of the gate. Pushing back from gate 601 Imaginesim WSSS

the large swing on pushback takes me into the grass.

https://i.imgur.com/RU6CO6s.jpg

This is what the afcad looks like

https://i.imgur.com/Z10U9XK.png

a simple layout and every airport where the taxiway ends behind the gate I am being pushed at a very large radius into the grass before back around on the taxiway line.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 07:16:51 PM by virtuali » Logged
airbadger
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« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2019, 12:46:14 PM »

I've broken quite a few nosegear struts at this point

https://imgur.com/a/hwPOb4t
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virtuali
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2019, 07:20:18 PM »

Please read again my previous answers, they already cleared everything that was required to know to understand this is not a GSX problem, but a fix for crashes that might have happened elsewhere which users might have reported in the past.

It's possible that fixing these bugs, has resulted in a more large DEFAULT curve when using on an extremely long airplane like that. I'm not sure we might fix both cases without resulting in the old problems coming back again, but we'll check this.
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413x3
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2019, 12:36:16 AM »

Please read again my previous answers, they already cleared everything that was required to know to understand this is not a GSX problem, but a fix for crashes that might have happened elsewhere which users might have reported in the past.

It's possible that fixing these bugs, has resulted in a more large DEFAULT curve when using on an extremely long airplane like that. I'm not sure we might fix both cases without resulting in the old problems coming back again, but we'll check this.

My request is to make the default curve less because this is happening to me at every airport when I push back. Thanks
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