Author Topic: GSX trial without GSX2  (Read 2254 times)

skycamel

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GSX trial without GSX2
« on: April 15, 2019, 05:48:07 pm »
Hi,
1)I would like to try GSX basic but when I download and install the trial version it will install both GSX basic and GSX2.
Is there any possibility just to have GSX basic installed as a trial?

2) Why not providing a stripped down/light version with only the push back function?
I know many people are waiting for FS2Crew to finally selling the Ultimate Ground crew but I guess we will wait for ever.

I would prefer only to have the GSX push back function because there're sooooo many problems with all the other function like trucks driving through my aircraft,
GSX trucks/tugs driving through other GSX trucks/tugs/bus (you would assume that GSX knows the position of their own vehicles, right?),
follow me car driving through the AI aircraft in front of me, etc ...

But the price is a little steep just to have/use the push back functionality.

Cheers,
Luc

virtuali

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Re: GSX trial without GSX2
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2019, 05:01:10 pm »
1)I would like to try GSX basic but when I download and install the trial version it will install both GSX basic and GSX2.
Is there any possibility just to have GSX basic installed as a trial?

No, there isn't. If you restore default jetways, it will not replace jetways anymore, so passenger won't come (at least on gates), so you basically have GSX basic

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2) Why not providing a stripped down/light version with only the push back function?

We'll instead continue to add features, including a better Pushback.

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I would prefer only to have the GSX push back function because there're sooooo many problems with all the other function like trucks driving through my aircraft GSX trucks/tugs driving through other GSX trucks/tugs/bus (you would assume that GSX knows the position of their own vehicles, right?)

You are assuming wrong. As explained so many times on the forum, GSX vehicles don't know their relative positions. This is made for obvious efficiency reasons because, if *each* vehicle would be aware of all the others (and the AI as well), it would mean that *each* vehicle would have to query the simulator for all other vehicles nearby, and this would have to be made for each frame, putting an enormous strain on Simconnect, which has a shared communication channel between the sim and ALL the other addons that runs with it so, if we tried to do something like that, we would likely disrupt the operation of other addons that requires communication with the sim, since we would have to spam the simulator with hundreds of requests per seconds, just to know where the other objects are.

In addition to that, even if we did that (and we shouldn't), automatically preventing each moving vehicle from ever clash into all the other ones, is a problem that is not fixed, not even in hundreds-millions-dollars budget games: just search Youtube, and you'll find hundreds of video showing GTA5 glitches just like that. And they have a budget that could easily rewrite the whole simulator from scratch, not just GSX...

And, having vehicles *trying* to sort out their possible conflicts, would then introduce a NEW class of issues, which are even WORSE than just vehicles pass through each other, and that would be traffic deadlocks on the limited space on the apron.

So, of course, we chose the proper solution, which doesn't have a large performance impact, and doesn't cause worse problem than the minor issues of vehicles sometimes running into each other.

Also, as explained so many times on the forum, most of the time those issues can be fixed by customizing the vehicles starting positions, if the problem happen around the airplane.

If, instead, the problem happens far from the parking, it's usually caused by a badly-designed AFCAD, for example one without separated and dedicated vehicle paths, or with path that cannot connect to the taxiway layout.

And, such problems can be worse if you run multiple services at time. We explained this quite clearly when users asked for this feature: since vehicles are not aware of each other, running multiple services at the same time will increase the chance of a clash between them because, when it wasn't possible, a lot of these issues were automatically prevented by the inability to call services simultaneously.

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follow me car driving through the AI aircraft in front of me, etc ...

This is only because you are following too close so, to prevent a collision ( see an example of what can happen in the only case we try to PREVENT a collision ? You think it's a bug..,), the Follow me car goes INTENTIONALLY around your plane. Follow it from a bit farther away, and it will always work as you expect.


skycamel

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Re: GSX trial without GSX2
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2019, 09:59:05 am »
Hi,
it looks that I struck a nerve, sorry about that, it was not my intention to criticize your development.
I do however appreciate your extensive clarification, although it would have been fine too if you just directed me to a link where you explained it before, just to save you the time of repeating yourself.
It's so much more clear for me know and it totally makes sense now. My assumption came from the fact that my AI planes (WOAI) doesn't run into me, nor the other AI planes
around. I never saw them crash into something.
So I assume (and surely I can be wrong again) that the difference is that the control of the AI planes is "embedded" in the sim itself whereby GSX is controlling the vehicles from outside the sim, hence using simconnect.
On that last note, and yes, I know, it has been discussed here before some time ago, the fact that GSX is using simconnect, what are the technical constraints to put it on a networked PC?
One last question if I may, I can get rid of the jetways in the demo, but what about the animated crew and passengers? I suppose that is part of GSX2 too? Would GSX basic just provide the vehicles (passenger busses) without the animation? Just don't want to strain my system too much.
Cheers,
Luc

virtuali

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Re: GSX trial without GSX2
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2019, 08:42:34 am »
it looks that I struck a nerve, sorry about that, it was not my intention to criticize your development.

You haven't struck anything. You just made a question that has been discussed and answered so many times.

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I do however appreciate your extensive clarification, although it would have been fine too if you just directed me to a link where you explained it before, just to save you the time of repeating yourself.

Since nobody uses the Search function, I always repeat myself, because each time my reply is possibly improving in accuracy, and it's surely on time with the current version of GSX, which keeps changing...

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My assumption came from the fact that my AI planes (WOAI) doesn't run into me, nor the other AI planes around. I never saw them crash into something.

They Yeld to each other. Which means, if an AI comes close to another one, or you, on the same taxiway, they will both stop and after sometime, one of them will automatically disappear.

And of course, is way easier to solve potential clashes when you are dealing with vehicles of DIFFERENT types, for example AI and Ground vehicles. This because they are supposed to take DIFFERENT paths on the airport, AI will use Taxiways and Ground vehicles will use their own dedicated paths. This means conflicts are inherently very rare, and they can sorted out more easily, since the vehicle would only have to check its *immediate* proximity.

Since GSX vehicles are all ground vehicles, solving deadlocks between them would be way more complex. For example, how you expect to solve the issues of two vehicles entering their own vehicle path from two opposite sides, that has a very long section and NO exits between the vehicle ? That's a deadlock, and the "proper" way would be one of the vehicle making a 180, and taking a whole different route. Assuming there IS one. Some airports might be so simple there's only one possible route towards a certain parking. So, the "proper" way to fix this would have them waiting to enter the path, and being sure nobody will want to use in the next future. With "next future" meaning the time it would take to take that section, but of course each vehicle has its speed, its cornering radius, its size, etc...

See how easy would be to escalate that to a problem which might be almost impossible to fix. For *what* real benefit ? It's not as if the vehicle clash into each other and don't reach you because of that. It's basically a cosmetic issue.


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So I assume (and surely I can be wrong again) that the difference is that the control of the AI planes is "embedded" in the sim itself whereby GSX is controlling the vehicles from outside the sim, hence using simconnect.

Yes, this is one issue. The sim itself might be more efficient, while if we spammed Simconnect with commands just to make the vehicles a bit smarter, we might be easily disrupt other addons with all that flooding of commands sent to the sim, continuously.

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On that last note, and yes, I know, it has been discussed here before some time ago, the fact that GSX is using simconnect, what are the technical constraints to put it on a networked PC?

That it doesn't run only on Simconnect. It ALSO runs "inside" the sim, specifically the part which would have been the heaviest on Simconnect (and Simconnect doesn't support it anyway), which is the handling of custom variables used for animations.

Since animations *must* be syncronized with the video frame rate, otherwise they wouldn't look very smooth, we do all the handling of the animations using a .DLL which bypasses Simconnect, so it doesn't generate any traffic over it. Traffic that, of course, would be placed on your network, should the whole system would be allowed to run over it.


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One last question if I may, I can get rid of the jetways in the demo, but what about the animated crew and passengers? I suppose that is part of GSX2 too? Would GSX basic just provide the vehicles (passenger busses) without the animation?.

Without ever forgetting we are only discussing about 3 airports, of course you can disable the GSX L2 Jetways, right on the start of the manual, Page 4, the chapter named "Trial Limitations":

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On default airports or 3rd-party airports that have Jetways using the default Jetway models, Installing GSX will result in all default jetway models to be replaced. If GSX Level 2 is in Trial, the replaced Jetways will work ONLY at the Trial airports. If want to go back to the default jetway models, you can use the Control Panel to restore them.

Of course, you will still see passengers at those 3 Trial airports if you go to a parking in the open with no jetways, so in that case you can do either of these:

- Disable the "Estimate passenger number" option, and say there are 0 passengers.

OR

- Lower the passenger density to minimum.


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Just don't want to strain my system too much

Passenger won't consume any resources if they are not visible, and surely not if you outside of the Trial airports.