Author Topic: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading  (Read 11459 times)

Sabre10

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GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« on: June 16, 2018, 07:17:39 pm »
How to stop GSX change my preset load distribution of FSL A320X during PAX & Cargo loading?

Thanks.

Sabre10

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Re: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2018, 09:00:54 pm »
Since GSX can already manipulate some internal Payload numbers in FSL A320X I would love GSX accept my entry of 2 user values: ZFW and PAX number that are given to me for a flight by my VA. Then after loading I would adjust LMC (Last minute change) weight distribution in TO-Performance Calculator here http://wabpro.cz/A320/  
Is it possible?

Thanks.

virtuali

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Re: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2018, 07:31:57 am »
GSX doesn't change anything in the airplane load. Whatever change you see in the airplane load, is made by the airplane itself.

Sabre10

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Re: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2018, 09:24:17 pm »
GSX doesn't change anything in the airplane load. Whatever change you see in the airplane load, is made by the airplane itself.

No, it does change. You can easily reproduce this and see yourself:

1) Load FSL A320X in MCDU OPTIONS/PAYLOAD PAGE, but don't leave it yet.
2) Request boarding in GSX. What you'll see then soon as GSX starts boarding ZFW (in MCDU) drops to DOW (I think it is DOW) first then starts gaining back up in line with GSX PAX and Cargo loading. When GSX finishes loading ZFW gets back to the same ZWF where it was before GSX. But weight distribution (PAX and Cargo numbers) become different from my preset before GSX. This changes CG% value.

Any of FSL A320X and GSX users can reproduce this. So my questions stays the same: how to stop GSX messing with FSL A320 payload at all?

Otherwise you may want to read this comment about GSX screwing up the figures lol, almost from the horse mouth:

https://forums.flightsimlabs.com/index.php?/topic/15473-take-off-performance/&do=findComment&comment=132275

Thanks for your attention to this,

PS: please enlighten me if there's something else involved that is out of control of GSX in this if any.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 09:34:18 pm by Sabre10 »

virtuali

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Re: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2018, 11:32:03 pm »
No, it does change.

I can only repeat and confirm GSX doest NOT change the airplane payload. Surely NOT on boarding/deboarding.

On default airplanes (NOT FSLabs!!), which are flagged as using the default fuel systems, GSX change the FUEL quantity, which is the only time GSX would ever affect the overall airplane weight but, again, it's for the Fuel quantity only (not the payload), and it won't affect the FSLabs A320, since it's an airplane flagged as having a custom fuel system, which means GSX won't touch it.

NOTHING in the GSX code ever touches the airplane payload, regardless of the airplane used.

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Otherwise you may want to read this comment about GSX screwing up the figures lol, almost from the horse mouth

The "horse mouth", as far as GSX is concerned, it's HERE and nowhere else. That post you linked is not even from someone at FSLabs but, instead, is from another user that, like you, thinks GSX is messing with the airplane weight, but it doesn't.

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You can easily reproduce this and see yourself:

2) Request boarding in GSX. What you'll see then soon as GSX starts boarding ZFW (in MCDU) drops to DOW (I think it is DOW) first then starts gaining back up in line with GSX PAX and Cargo loading. When GSX finishes loading ZFW gets back to the same ZWF where it was before GSX. But weight distribution (PAX and Cargo numbers) become different from my preset before GSX. This changes CG% value.

That doesn't mean is *GSX* which is messing with the airplane weight. Instead, it's the airplane itself, which is reacting to GSX boarding, and it is changing ITS OWN payload by ITSELF.

And, from your description, it seems like what is supposed to do: simulating its own progressive load in synch with GSX boarding. But, again, it's something FSLabs are doing in their code so, if something doesn't look right to you, best to ask to FSLabs.

Sabre10

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Re: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2018, 08:02:09 pm »

The "horse mouth", as far as GSX is concerned...


It was rather FSL A320X not GSX that was concerned in context. And "almost from the horse mouth" person that I mentioned is likely to know off the top loading numbers of the model and the real thing better than anybody else including FSL. The point is there's an issue of using GSX with FSL A320X whereas using GSX inadvertently affects some internal values in FSL A320X, that get scr.. ermm changed when GSX connects. All is clear.



virtuali

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Re: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2018, 02:42:19 am »
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And "almost from the horse mouth" person that I mentioned is likely to know off the top loading numbers of the model and the real thing better than anybody else including FSL

Regardless how experienced anybody can be with the real airplane, he cannot possibly know anything about what GSX does and what GSX doesn't and, he cannot also possibly know what the FSLabs code does to work TOGETHER with GSX. So, there are only two absolute sources of infos here about this issue:

- Me, when GSX is concerned, and I already confirmed, several times by now, that GSX does NOT change the payload of the airplane.

- FSLabs themselves, which can tell you which features they have in their own code, to react and work together with GSX.


I'll repeat it again: GSX doesn't touch ANY variables of the payload!. It's the FSLabs code which is REACTING to GSX, and it's changing the payload weight progressively, and that is misleading you thinking it might be GSX doing something, or GSX causing a conflict.

As I've said already, what you reported seems to be a correct behavior but, you then added the "weight distribution (PAX and Cargo numbers) become different from my preset before GSX. This changes CG% value" sentence, which seems to indicate something still is not right but, again, you must ask FSLabs about this, because nothing we do from GSX ever touches the payload.

Sabre10

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Re: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2018, 11:54:10 pm »
Regardless how experienced anybody can be with the real airplane, he cannot possibly know anything about what GSX does and what GSX doesn't and, he cannot also possibly know what the FSLabs code does to work TOGETHER with GSX.

Who said that person knew anything about the GSX or A320X code? I never said that. I meant to say he was professional enough to observe and confirm FSL A320X and GSX didn't sync right in the load distribution. And I surmise he might know this part of simulation even better than any FSL coder does lol, because unlike a coder it's his profession in real life, all I meant to say.

Ok, we'll wait and see whose side effect is this eventually.

I hope GSX v2 is the way to go and it will allow manual pre-setting PAX and Cargo numbers. In the current version GSX says it loads fixed 170 passengers.

Cheers,

virtuali

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Re: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2018, 05:20:26 am »
Who said that person knew anything about the GSX or A320X code?

Since the ONLY thing that can possibly cause any issue is the CODE (either in GSX or in the A320), by saying there's a problem, it's implied you are saying there's a problem with the code and, again, regardless how experienced anyone can be, he cannot possibly know how the GSX and A320 code works.

Since I obviously know something about the GSX code, I CAN tell you with certainty that GSX doesn't touch the airplane payload. I think I repeated this several times by now.

I don't know exactly how the A320 code works but, since I'm SURE the GSX code doesn't touch the airplane payload, it's quite clear the only possible reason for any change in payload of the A320 which can be observed in relationship to using GSX, can ONLY happen because the A320 code is REACTING to a GSX operation and, in fact, while I don't know the details, this is exactly what FS Labs is planning to do so, it's all normal but, it might not be completed/finished/debugged. Again, better ask FS Labs about this.

The only thing sure is, again, GSX IS NOT MESSING WITH THE WEIGHT.

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I hope GSX v2 is the way to go and it will allow manual pre-setting PAX and Cargo numbers.

As already explained in another thread, GSX will not set the passenger number directly, because this is something that should be done by the airplane itself and, since many 3rd party airplanes already do that, it would be wrong to force users to input the SAME number (possibly making mistakes) in GSX. What would be the point ? Much easier and cleaner if the airplane code will set the GSX variable to the same number of passenger it already has for its own purposes, and GSX will read it, with no user intervention.


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In the current version GSX says it loads fixed 170 passengers.

Unless the airplane code uses the GSX variable that sets a precise number of passengers, GSX will estimate the number automatically by dividing the total weight of the payload stations by 220 lbs so, it's not possible it will always say a fixed number of passengers unless, of course, you always load the airplane with the same payload.

jgoggi

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Re: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2018, 06:29:21 pm »
Umberto, ok that at the end of the boarding the ZFW is the same, but isn't it possible to also maintain the pax and cargo distribution as it was before boarding?? GSX CHANGES that and we DON'T WANT that, because it changes the CG position! Thanks.
James Goggi

jgoggi

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Re: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2018, 10:24:10 am »
Or, if it's an FSLabs issue, isn't it possibile to disable this progressive loading feature?
James Goggi

virtuali

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Re: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2018, 01:38:23 pm »
GSX CHANGES that and we DON'T WANT that, because it changes the CG position! Thanks.

Why you say GSX "changes" something, when I think I already clearly explained IT DOESN'T in my previous post ? Please read it again, it includes all the information you require to know about who's doing what.

GSX is NOT changing the airplane weight.

The airplane ITSELF, will change its own weight by ITSELF, if it supports interaction with GSX, by reading and setting the required GSX variables. As far as I know, the only airplane that can do this, is the FS Labs A319/A320 so, again, if you see anything in the airplane weight that doesn't match what you are expecting, it's entirely done by the airplane itself.

I'll repeat it again: GSX doesn't do anything to the airplane, it ONLY sets its own variables, which the airplane code can then use it to set whatever they need to do to set their own weight.

jgoggi

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Re: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2018, 02:52:01 pm »
Ok, it's perfectly clear, it depends on the 319/320, not on GSX. At this point, considering that this is not wanted, couldn't be possible to add an option to disable the progressive loading?
James Goggi

virtuali

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Re: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2018, 03:02:02 pm »
Ok, it's perfectly clear, it depends on the 319/320, not on GSX. At this point, considering that this is not wanted, couldn't be possible to add an option to disable the progressive loading?

What do you mean with "considering that this is not wanted" ? You WANT to have the GSX and the Airplane load process to be in agreement, why you would want to be otherwise ?

I'll repeat it again, GSX is ONLY setting some variables that don't have anything to do with the airplane weight. It's the airplane that must decide what to do with them so, eventually, your suggestion to disable the progressive loading, should be directed to FSLabs, which would eventually add an option to IGNORE the GSX variables.

But why they should do that ? It doesn't make any sense.

If you think there are problems/bugs with it, you should report them to FSLabs, so the airplane would load correctly when used together with GSX, not ask for an option to stop working with GSX because, the whole point of the interaction between GSX and the airplane, is they MUST work correctly, together, instead of having the airplane doing its own progressive load (that it ALWAYS DID), totally unrelated to what's happening in GSX.

jgoggi

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Re: GSX & FSL A320X weight loading
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2018, 03:56:23 pm »
I ask to disable it because it always happens that before boarding I have say 155 pax and 3000 Kgs of cargo and, after boarding, the passengers reduce to 120 and the cargo goes up say to 5000 or even full load (in order to maintain the same ZFW). Why should I accept to have 120 pax, so a quite lower load factor, when I had an almost full airplane before GSX intervention? That is what we 'don't want'.
James Goggi