Author Topic: North-East Canada CTDs  (Read 4396 times)

MatthiasKNU

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North-East Canada CTDs
« on: May 06, 2018, 06:02:24 pm »
Hi guys, Hi Umberto!

Maybe there is already a topic here regarding this issue, but I could not find it.

I - and many, many others - have CTDs in the area between Greenland, Newfoundland and Canada. The CTDs are happening on every flight over this area.
It is reproducable, it is happening with all kind of aircraft. I already tried really a lot, without FSUIPC, with Default Aircraft, with and without scenery addons, with and without Weather Addons...

I am having these CTDs for years, but now I have found the cause.
It MUST have to do with the Addon Manager or the couatl.exe.
I know that you have often written that the couatl.exe itself can't crash the sim. I believe that.

The fact is, without the couatl.exe running no CTDs are happening. If now the couatl.exe, the addon manager or something complety different is causing these CTDs, I don't know.
I've read that it might be related to SimConnect. If so, is there any change to get rid of these CTDs?

I tried it more than 10 times, and without the couatl.exe I could always end my flight.

But now I would like to fly to LAX, YVR, IAH, CLT, JFK (which are airports I really don't want to miss!) and so on, but... without the couatl.exe running, these airports are not running, too.

Now I have a few questions:
- Are you already aware of this problem in the northeast of Canada?
- Is there any possibility to run the FSDT airports without the couatl.exe? (I am quite sure it is not, because of the activation, which is stored in the addon manager, but asking costs nothing  ;D; If it should not be public also gladly by PN!)
- Is it in your power to avoid this CTD?
- If the last two questions are answered with no: Do you have any advice for me for flying from Europe to the FSDT-Airports in the USA/Canada?

Thank you very, very much in advance!

Kind regards

Matthias


« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 07:31:50 pm by MatthiasKNU »
Kind Regards
Matthias

My System:
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virtuali

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Re: North-East Canada CTDs
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2018, 10:10:26 am »
This issue has already been discussed several other threads and yes, I can only repeat and confirm Couatl, by itself, CANNOT CRASH THE SIM. This is really not something opened to any discussion.

However, it's still possible that an operation started by it, can cause SOMETHING ELSE in the sim to crash and, since all previous reports seems to indicate some place in eastern Canada, I think the only possible cause of this, is some issue with a strange airport NAME in that area.

When you are flying in an area, GSX/Couatl are not doing anything, except asking the sim, in the background, a list of airports close to you. This is started from GSX, which sends a request to the Addon Manager, which in turn sends the same request to the sim, since in order to do this, we interface with the built-in functions of the GPS, since through Simconnect we cannot get everything we require.

So, technically, is the Addon Manager (which is a .DLL), which "caused" the sim to crash but, of course, it's doing it following a request from GSX (which runs under Couatl), so you are easily mislead it's Couatl which is crashing the sim, something it really cannot do, since it's an .EXE, so it has no access whatsoever to the sim.

Now, we arrive to the next issue, if it's really an Addon Manager fault, or is something even more internal to the sim, which might crash BY ITSELF, just because something is asking for an airport which has a wrong/unusual/corrupted name in that area. If I could check the area precisely, it would be very easy to check if the crash it's really an Addon Manager fault, or it's just the sim which is crashing when asked about the airport, so it could happen with every other addon that ask for nearby airports in the same way, for example with its gauges, if they interface with the default GPS in the same way.


That's why, whenever someone reported this issue, I always asked for the EXACT location, but so far, nobody has ever able to supply anything more precise than a generic "somewhere in the north-eastern Canada" so, please, if you want to have a chance to contribute to the eventual solution of this issue, try to get the exact Lat/Lon coordinates of the location that cause this crash. Even if it's a bug of the sim default airport data, maybe we can find a way to defend from it.

Quote
- Is there any possibility to run the FSDT airports without the couatl.exe? (I am quite sure it is not, because of the activation, which is stored in the addon manager, but asking costs nothing

This has been explained so many times:

we don't use Couatl JUST for the activation, that's only maybe 1% of its features. Our sceneries are not just sceneries, they are Python SCRIPTS, which require an interpreter to run, which is obviously Couatl, which allow us to do things nobody else can do (see our new O'Hare preview to get some idea), without taking ANY processing power from the sim, since Couatl runs externally to it, so it can use whatever spare free CPU cycles you have in one of your multi-core processors, which would be the case if we tried to do a scenery-helping .DLL (which slows down the main thread), like other developers did. And the *WHOLE* GSX runs entirely inside Couatl.

MatthiasKNU

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Re: North-East Canada CTDs
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2018, 03:14:26 pm »
Hi Umberto, thank you very much for clarifying.

That sounds reasonable, that it's because of a faulty airport name.

I am tracking my flights, so I CAN provide exact coordinates of some CTDs.

#1: N58°42.69' W56°55.10
#2: N60°22.60' W59°48.95'
#3: N54°35.01' W52°50.98'
#4: N58°2.20' W55°23.83'

I hope this information helps to find the issue!

If there is any more information you could need to find the problem, just let me know!


Kind Regards
Matthias

My System:
I7-7820X@4,3 GHz, GTX980, 16 GB RAM, 3x 512 GB SSD, ASUS ROG STRIX X299-E Gaming
Sim: Lockheed Martin Prepar3D v4.5, OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bit (English)

virtuali

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Re: North-East Canada CTDs
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 11:31:52 pm »
Sorry for a bit late reply, but I finally found some time to test your report and, I'm afraid I'm a bit clueless. I went to each of your locations, and there was no crash I could reproduce.

Also, most of them were far from any airport, except one which was fairly close to Nain airport ( CYDP ), but I tried landing there too, and there were no issues at all.

I think there must be something related to issues with the navaids or airport database, possibly coming with some 3rd party addon I don't have, perhaps a corrupted .BGL or containing invalid data.

Do you have any addons that might have updated the airports or the navaids in that area ?

MatthiasKNU

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Re: North-East Canada CTDs
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2018, 08:58:50 am »
Not problem, thank you very much for testing!

I have no addons in this area. None. The next addon would be BIKF or CYUL/KBOS.
Even with the default P3D, without any addons except GSX these CTDs occur.
To be honest, I am quite clueless, too.

I really tried a lot to find the cause of these CTDs

But you are right, when "jumping" to these locations, it works. But when flying from Europe to America, then it crashes.
Also when flying from the US to Europe  these CTDs do not occur or do not occur as often.

By the way, I've read your post at AVSIM, just an idea:
The CTDs may be caused due to the query of the next airports/navaids in this area.
Is it maybe possible, to just try a GSX version without this functionality? (As far as I know the feature to pre-select an airport came just 2 years ago (or so).)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 09:03:52 am by MatthiasKNU »
Kind Regards
Matthias

My System:
I7-7820X@4,3 GHz, GTX980, 16 GB RAM, 3x 512 GB SSD, ASUS ROG STRIX X299-E Gaming
Sim: Lockheed Martin Prepar3D v4.5, OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bit (English)

jwyman

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Re: North-East Canada CTDs
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2018, 09:29:19 pm »
MatthiasKU,

 It's funny that you are mentioning this situation... I noticed it several days ago after Win 10 did an update to my machine.... I tried flying 2 flights from KIAD to EGLL using a PDMG 747... My sim doesn't crash, it just hangs there with a spinning icon. No CTD/OOM/VAS, just spinning. VAS monitoring in FSUIPC showing more the then 2 gig VAS left, so that's not the issue. It appears to happen in roughly the same location as you stated...

MatthiasKNU

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Re: North-East Canada CTDs
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2018, 09:23:25 am »
Just another idea:

Quote
GSX->Couatl->Addon Manager->Panels interface

So... While GSX is not installed, the query of the nearby airports etc. is not being made?
Is it worth a try to remove GSX but let the addon manager and the airports active?
Kind Regards
Matthias

My System:
I7-7820X@4,3 GHz, GTX980, 16 GB RAM, 3x 512 GB SSD, ASUS ROG STRIX X299-E Gaming
Sim: Lockheed Martin Prepar3D v4.5, OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bit (English)

Tino

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Re: North-East Canada CTDs
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2018, 06:14:59 pm »
I have been experiencing this issue.. I tried the idea from another user on this forum: Restart Couatl after pushback. This will reset GSX etc. I've never experienced a CTD over the atlantic after that. So it IS something to do with GSX...

streichholz

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Re: North-East Canada CTDs
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2018, 05:34:05 pm »
Ah thanks Tino, this is good to know. Maybe I don't have to kill couatl anymore, everytime I fly westbound to the states.

virtuali

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Re: North-East Canada CTDs
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 08:46:11 am »
So it IS something to do with GSX...

As already explained in this thread, yes, it's likely something related to GSX, but that doesn't mean GSX is the cause. What's crashing is the sim itself, not GSX or Couatl, and this likely means there's a problem somewhere in the airport or navaids database (which GSX reads), which makes the sim crashing by itself when SOME addon enquires about it, using a special interface which is related to the default GPS.

Since this crash seems to affect P3D4 users only, and this interface has been changed quite a bit in P3D4, because it switched from ANSI to Unicode to encode strings representing airports/navaids/fixes names, I think something like a faulty/strange/corrupted facility name in the navigation database might cause the sim crashing when something is enquiring about it.

That's the most logical explanation I can find, not being able to reproduce it yet. Some of you seems to use 3rd party navdata upgrades. Is there anyone affected that uses the default navigation database ?

MatthiasKNU

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Re: North-East Canada CTDs
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 03:03:36 pm »
So it IS something to do with GSX...

As already explained in this thread, yes, it's likely something related to GSX, but that doesn't mean GSX is the cause. What's crashing is the sim itself, not GSX or Couatl, and this likely means there's a problem somewhere in the airport or navaids database (which GSX reads), which makes the sim crashing by itself when SOME addon enquires about it, using a special interface which is related to the default GPS.

Since this crash seems to affect P3D4 users only, and this interface has been changed quite a bit in P3D4, because it switched from ANSI to Unicode to encode strings representing airports/navaids/fixes names, I think something like a faulty/strange/corrupted facility name in the navigation database might cause the sim crashing when something is enquiring about it.

That's the most logical explanation I can find, not being able to reproduce it yet. Some of you seems to use 3rd party navdata upgrades. Is there anyone affected that uses the default navigation database ?

Hi Umberto!

You wrote that this CTD only affects P3Dv4 users. That's not the case. I have these CTDs since years, already in the FSX, P3Dv2.5, P3Dv3 and now still in P3Dv4.2.
I have tried it also with the default database (a while ago) without success...

by the way, just reloading couatl after pushback doesn't help for me...

One of the flights, which always are crashing is i.e. EGLL -> CYYZ. Maybe someone could try this flight...
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 03:09:08 pm by MatthiasKNU »
Kind Regards
Matthias

My System:
I7-7820X@4,3 GHz, GTX980, 16 GB RAM, 3x 512 GB SSD, ASUS ROG STRIX X299-E Gaming
Sim: Lockheed Martin Prepar3D v4.5, OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bit (English)

virtuali

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Re: North-East Canada CTDs
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2018, 03:38:18 pm »
You wrote that this CTD only affects P3Dv4 users. That's not the case. I have these CTDs since years, already in the FSX, P3Dv2.5, P3Dv3 and now still in P3Dv4.2.

There goes the theory the problem is caused by the *switch* to Unicode that happened in P3D4, but it can still mean the problem is something in the navigation database, because when you are not on ground, checking airports nearby is the only thing GSX does.

Quote
I have tried it also with the default database (a while ago) without success...

That seems to exclude the problem was caused by a 3rd party replacement, but it can still mean there might be a problem in the default database too.

Quote
by the way, just reloading couatl after pushback doesn't help for me...

That further confirm what I always suspected: that GSX is not the cause, and the sim is crashing on its own *just* because GSX asked for nearby airports and, something in the navdata in that area has a problem.