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Author Topic: GSX Level 2 expansion announced:SODE jetways and animated passengers everywhere  (Read 20237 times)
virtuali
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« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2018, 03:34:48 PM »

For default airports will all the gates have animated SODE jetways or just the user's gate? The reason that I ask is I'm wondering how AI aircraft will work with the new GSX 2.

I was quite sure this question would come up soon. We thought a lot about it, and we decided that, at least for the initial release, it will work only for the user airplane.

The obvious reason is performances.

By supporting only the user gate, we can afford the luxury of having *much* better looking jetways than the default ones without any significant fps impact, since the static ones won't have any bones/skin, they are a static object and are all carefully optimized with multiple LODs. Note that, a *docked* jetway, even if it's not moving, is still a skinned dynamic object, since its docked position cannot be pre-made as a static object, being dependent on the airplane door and its parked position.

Supporting AI too, would multiply the number of bones and animation running at the same time, and it's not even something we can fully control, since it's difficult to anticipate how many of them will have to move at the same time, due to very different AI density, schedules, etc.

With some AI products, such as UT Live, we cannot even know when the airplane will depart exactly, since their schedules are not standard and there's no support to read them programmatically, so we cannot even know when it's time to dock/undock a jetway with such products.

In fact, almost every 3rd party AI traffic product has the ability to *exclude* jetway animations from their model as a feature. Because, of course, even if it sounds nice in principle, most users realize their precious hardware power is better spent for other things.

So, at least for the initial release, we'll stick to the user gate only.
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twincessna340a
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« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2018, 06:07:29 AM »

- On an default airport with default jetways, there's nothing you must do: just install, and you'll immediately have better looking SODE jetways, which you CAN customize, if you want, but you don't have to.

Does this include default airports modified with programs like ADE that still use the default jetways?

I have 2 scenarios:
Most of my modified airports exist as AFCAD BGLs in the Addon Scenery area
However I have a few airports where the AFCAD BGL is in a separate distinct scenery area

I'm using P3D v4 and use the proper XML method with the files located outside of the P3D root folder.
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virtuali
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« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2018, 07:29:06 AM »

Does this include default airports modified with programs like ADE that still use the default jetways?

Yes, they are not any different than default airports, just with a different layout.

When installing, we disable the default jetway library object (just like we disable the default pushback truck in the same way), and replace them with SODE jetways automatically. You will still see the jetway in ADE, but it won't be controlled by the AFCAD anymore: from that point on, it would be a SODE/GSX jetway that can be customized/moved/rotated with the GSX editor.

The location where you place your sceneries doesn't matter, and there will be no need for an exclude .BGL in that case, since in case of the default jetway model, it won't be visible anymore, so there's no need for an exclude file.

Exclude files will only be created for 3rd party airports with jetways animated with the default system, but with a custom model, so we don't replace them automatically and we don't disable their model but, instead, we'll create an exclude .BGL file.
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Loc
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« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2018, 08:37:37 AM »

Looking forward to this new GSX level2. I have one question: in some airports the passengers doesn't go from bus to plane, but goes from airport straight to the airplane stairs. Will it be simulated?
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Diuhh
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« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2018, 08:40:02 AM »

Great stuff. I have two questions:

Power and air condition units: will GSX ground crew be able to handle and connect GPU and the air condition unit on the plane itself? Are the cables visible? That would be an amazing feature for sure!

Passengers: I know it is only a first preview. However, the boarding process looks a bit unrealistic. The bus doors open and the first passengers slowly disembark followed by more passengers. Normally you would see a bit crowd disembarking the bus as soon as the door open. Then people usually stand on stairs wait till they can go inside the plane. Do you find some limitations here (for example only a limited amount of passengers can be shown at a time)?

Thanks for your appreciated feedback.

Greetings,
Diuhh


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kihew
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« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2018, 09:24:57 AM »

Is there a video (or photo, even) preview of the passengers boarding available or only what was shown at the expo?

Disregard - just found it at pcflight.net!

Wow, double wow. For a pre-beta preview it already looks fantastic. What jumped out as best was that there was little feeling of repetition and the fluidity of it all. As suggestions for improvement from my first thoughts: the people models need hand or should bags, and there's a lady that looks like she's dancing - too easy to single her out which we will then do every single time ("look, there's dancing lady again"), they'd need to be as uncharacteristic as possible Smiley.

I've been specially happy with the GSX improvements for those that, like me, only fly cargo ops but visible passengers is kind of a "holy grail" in fs world, to me. Well done!

Alex


Great stuff. I have two questions:

Power and air condition units: will GSX ground crew be able to handle and connect GPU and the air condition unit on the plane itself? Are the cables visible? That would be an amazing feature for sure!

Passengers: I know it is only a first preview. However, the boarding process looks a bit unrealistic. The bus doors open and the first passengers slowly disembark followed by more passengers. Normally you would see a bit crowd disembarking the bus as soon as the door open. Then people usually stand on stairs wait till they can go inside the plane. Do you find some limitations here (for example only a limited amount of passengers can be shown at a time)?

Thanks for your appreciated feedback.

Greetings,
Diuhh



« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 09:37:27 AM by kihew » Logged
joefackel
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« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2018, 10:39:00 AM »


So, at least for the initial release, we'll stick to the user gate only.


Hopefully you can find a way to get the services running also for AI plane, even when its only stripped down animations for AI, without hestiation i would sacrifice the cycles of one core to get more life in the oftern very static airports  Smiley

We need food for our often underemployed CPU cores  Grin
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virtuali
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« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2018, 03:14:59 PM »

Power and air condition units: will GSX ground crew be able to handle and connect GPU and the air condition unit on the plane itself? Are the cables visible? That would be an amazing feature for sure!

While P3D4 already has an API to create wires, they are a bit limited and too simplified in appearance so, I think it might not look very good to have a cable which looks textured and modeled, then it would become a simple wire, in order to use the new "Rope simulation" system which has been added fairly recently in the P3D4 API.

I guess we *might* create our own cable simulation, but it's not the easiest things to do, and it would still be a P3D4-only feature anyway, since it would require an higher number or bones, and we are already close to the maximum possible with FSX. So, maybe not in the first release, but after allowing more time to finally have everybody moving out from FSX.

Quote
Do you find some limitations here (for example only a limited amount of passengers can be shown at a time)?

When something doesn't look entirely realistic, always ask yourself "could be they made it like that for performance reasons ?", and you'll find the answer would be almost invariably YES. Yes, we need to keep the number of passengers visible at any given time under control, which is why we try not to form too crowded areas.

Don't forget the situation we started with: an empty bus and passengers created by your own imagination, which is GSX always worked so far.
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jabloomf1230
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« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2018, 03:26:57 PM »


...
So, at least for the initial release, we'll stick to the user gate only.

Thanks for the response. V1.63 of SODE uses proximity to the jetway as the trigger for AI docking. I can't say whether it works with UTL, but it does work with both the sim's ATC-controlled AI aircraft and VOXATC AI.  I modded KALB (my home airport) for personal use with SODE jetways and the performance hit was negligible. But at a big airport, the results will be much worse.

As you know, SODE also has the option of adding a static jetway version which has a lower LOD and is used to improve performance with airports with large numbers of jetways. The non-animated version replaces the normal version of the jetway when the user is distant to the jetway.

In any case, sticking with replacing just the user's jetway seems prudent for an initial release.
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Cyrex1984
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« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2018, 06:36:27 PM »

I have some questions about GSX 2 that is easy to answer on i think, its just something im thinking on all the time and i would realy appreciate an answer on this:


1. How will it be when passengers are boarding smaller aircrafts like the Q400 or Saab 340? will they use the doorstairs on the plane? or just vanish near the aircraft?

2.Is it possible that passenger can walk out\in from the terminal at a chosen spot when not at a gate? or is it only they will arrive with bus? Im thinking if it is a small airport its not realy realistic they will appear in a bus when the aircraft is parked close to the terminalbuilidng.

3.How many different passenger models will it be in the release pack?

Thanks Smiley
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medic87
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« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2018, 01:55:07 AM »

Will it be possible to configure SODE-Jetways on a 3rd party airport and share such files in your download section? Since those files doesn’t seem to content material of the 3rd party add ins this should be legal I guess.
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Diuhh
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« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2018, 09:02:51 AM »

While P3D4 already has an API to create wires, they are a bit limited and too simplified in appearance so, I think it might not look very good to have a cable which looks textured and modeled, then it would become a simple wire, in order to use the new "Rope simulation" system which has been added fairly recently in the P3D4 API.

Thanks Umberto. As an alternative GSX could tell aircraft devs the exact position of the power unit and the air condition unit when the jetway has moved into its position. Then the addons devs can design cables and hoses theirselfes and show them as soon as they are connected.

Of course an actual GSX ground crew connecting them would be nicer...

Greetings,
Till

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FireCapt
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« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2018, 02:31:28 AM »

Wow Umberto,

I'll be the first one in line to buy when it's released.  Cheesy
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Anders Bermann
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« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2018, 06:07:48 AM »


1. How will it be when passengers are boarding smaller aircrafts like the Q400 or Saab 340? will they use the doorstairs on the plane? or just vanish near the aircraft?

Thanks Smiley

Interesting question. Would like to know as well.


2.Is it possible that passenger can walk out\in from the terminal at a chosen spot when not at a gate? or is it only they will arrive with bus? Im thinking if it is a small airport its not realy realistic they will appear in a bus when the aircraft is parked close to the terminalbuilidng.

Thanks Smiley

Again, would be a nice addition. In smaller airports, a bus is not used. Also, in Copenhagen (EKCH) passengers from Terminal GO (low cost/budget airlines) walk to the plane from the terminal building.
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Best regards, Anders
LukeK
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« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2018, 04:19:02 PM »

By WRITING TO to a special L: variable, airplane developers can TELL GSX the precise, exact, number of passengers which are supposed to be boarded, so GSX will indicate the same number the airplane is expecting to have.

- Another L: variable developers can READ, will indicate the running total of passengers boarded/deboarded so, developers will be able to keep track of the process and, eventually, simulate the progressive change in weight and balance occurring while passengers enter/exit the plane.

Both variables will be officially documented in the manual, and are very easy to use. We have been already in talk to several developers, who seemed eager to add this feature to their products.

How can I get on the list to receive the documentation when it is available for my products?

Cheers!

Luke
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