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Author Topic: Update to KLAS already?  (Read 6146 times)
bradl
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« on: May 01, 2009, 07:40:43 AM »


Hi all, just joined, and first time post here, so I'll be brief! Smiley

I am VERY VERY close to buying the KLAS scenery, but I wonder if there will be an update in the works soon? I held off because since last October, 25L/7R had been closed for reconstruction, along with taxiway Alpha. It was scheduled to be closed until May 1st (Friday), but they finally opened it on Tuesday. Along with the reconstruction, they made changes to the taxiways. A3 is now a highspeed for 7R, and A7 is now a highspeed for 25L, giving a total of 3 highspeeds for 25L (though it will be rare if a 25L arrival misses A6) for configurations #1 and #3, and 2 for 7R should they go into configurations #4 or #6.

So my question is, while there be an update for the changes they made there?

Press Release for Reopening of 25L/7R

BL.
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virtuali
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2009, 11:01:30 AM »

You really can't expect a scenery will be updated in real-time with its real world counterpart. It's just not possible.

To even considering STARTING an update, we need the following:

- charts needs to be updated. this is the easiest

- aerial photos from GE or VE that we can use as reference needs to be updated

- pictures needs to be posted on websites

At the moment, there's no update possible for KLAS, because the real world update is basically happening *now* so, we can't even start it, before all the things above are made available.

Consider that, we still don't have all the material we would like to have for the O'Hare update, which is way more significant, and we surely be relased before anythign for KLAS.
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Dillon
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« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2009, 03:59:59 PM »

O.K. maybe I'm off a bit but 25L was never closed down in any scenery released depicting KLAS.  Now the question would be if 27L was closed down could that be reflected in the scenery but even then it's a temporary thing that need not be concidered since the runway isn't permanently going away (the taxiway differences can always get addressed at a later date, the main issue is the major runways themselves).  Now since 25L is back open at the real airport and it's fully functional in this scenery this is a none issue...  Huh 

Maybe I'm missing something here...  Undecided
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 04:06:48 PM by Dillon » Logged
virtuali
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« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2009, 04:15:55 PM »

Now since 25L is back open at the real airport and it's fully functional in this scenery this is a none issue...  Huh

My reply was more generic on the issue about asking for updates the same day they happens in the real world, which it's just not possible.

About the specific case, I assume bradl has checked the Trial version, and with that he should realized that we have 7R/25L fully operational already. Not sure about the taxiways situation if everything is fully updated yet...
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Bruce Hamilton
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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2009, 05:35:36 PM »

You really can't expect a scenery will be updated in real-time with its real world counterpart. It's just not possible.

Several months ago, KIND was in process of building a new terminal and shutting down an old one.  Blueprint was able to obtain the data necessary to model the new terminal as it was being built, and released it to coincide with the opening of the new terminal in the real world.
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virtuali
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2009, 06:51:20 PM »

Blueprint was able to obtain the data necessary to model the new terminal as it was being built, and released it to coincide with the opening of the new terminal in the real world.

There's no need to mention other developers (although you need far more information to create a terminal at *our* level of quality), when we did the same with JFK T5, which was still in construction when we developed the scenery.

However, a new terminal buing built is way different than changing runway and taxi layouts because, for new terminals you find plenty of plans and 3d renderings but, for taxiways and runway, there's no such things: we need actual pictures, airside and aerial.

Anyway, we HAVE rwy 25L in the scenery, even if it was closed up to this week.
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bradl
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2009, 06:52:24 PM »

Now since 25L is back open at the real airport and it's fully functional in this scenery this is a none issue...  Huh

My reply was more generic on the issue about asking for updates the same day they happens in the real world, which it's just not possible.

About the specific case, I assume bradl has checked the Trial version, and with that he should realized that we have 7R/25L fully operational already. Not sure about the taxiways situation if everything is fully updated yet...

Believe me, I know it isn't possible to do something like this real time, but perhaps I should rephrase my question. Would FSDT put out an update to KLAS if said data were made available? Reason I ask, is besides my living there, have 2 friends, one of which works at the tower, the other at the TRACON, both who know in depth what the construction changed, and how it is now set up.

Charts shouldn't be that hard to get, as the next cycle should be ready to be published at NACO. I don't know when GE or VE will take their next shots of the area, but it wouldn't be that hard for someone to go down to the field and take shots there.

Here's another question: if FSDT had known about reconstruction prior to the release of a given scenery and were given details on the reconstruction, would you continue with the release, or hold off on it to see if you can incorporate the changes?

Quote from: Bruce Hamilton
Anyway, we HAVE rwy 25L in the scenery, even if it was closed up to this week.

It isn't 25L that I'm asking about. it's the changes to the highspeeds off of 25L that I'm thinking of.

BL.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 06:54:09 PM by bradl » Logged
virtuali
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« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2009, 07:44:03 PM »

It all depends which changes were made, exactly.

We might already have some of them because, when the scenery was in developement (and is still like that, today), GE/VE aerial were still showing the construction in progress, so we had to create those parts without having a reference, but of course we don't know how it compares to real world as it is from this week.

So, it might be helpful first to check the current scenery against the current situation, and have a look at actual pictures. Then we can decide if an update can be made, or we just have to wait for additional data, like updated aerials, for example.
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bradl
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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2009, 09:15:39 PM »

It all depends which changes were made, exactly.

We might already have some of them because, when the scenery was in developement (and is still like that, today), GE/VE aerial were still showing the construction in progress, so we had to create those parts without having a reference, but of course we don't know how it compares to real world as it is from this week.

So, it might be helpful first to check the current scenery against the current situation, and have a look at actual pictures. Then we can decide if an update can be made, or we just have to wait for additional data, like updated aerials, for example.

I'll see what I can find for you. I do know this; unlike the changes at LAX, the runway was not moved laterally (LAX moved 25L/7R 150ft. south of where it previously was so they could put in a parallel taxiway between the 25s). It is still at the same place as it was before and is still the same length as well. Unfortunately, NACO printed the next cycle before the runway opened again, so I may have to wait until the cycle after next (next cycle starts May 7th, ends June 4th) to see if they add the changes then.

BL.
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Dillon
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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2009, 11:11:42 PM »

I'm sitting here thinking of all the work that's been put forth concerning this scenery and it's disheartening something so trivial as a couple of high speed turnoffs can become such an issue with some.  We just finished nailing down a decent AFCAD which was work in itself.  Let's enjoy what's been accomplished here for awhile before we nail FSDT to the wall for small oversights (which is unfair seeing this is new construction).  I personally want to see these guys get started on KDFW as soon as possible.  I agree if taxiways have changed then that will need to get addressed and with that another update to our much worked on AFCAD.  Of course I'm interested to know if this is a non issue for the simple fact this scenery is already based on the latest data.  The construction of these new highspeed turnoffs  didn't just happen in the last couple of weeks.  25L open or not had new concrete being laid for quite some time and this scenery could very well already reflect that.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 01:50:43 AM by Dillon » Logged
altstiff
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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2009, 08:24:32 PM »

I love it the way it is and it works perfectly with my old set of November 2007 jepp charts....
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bradl
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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2009, 04:45:50 AM »

I love it the way it is and it works perfectly with my old set of November 2007 jepp charts....

And pilots should know to keep current charts on them at all times, because with outdated charts you run the danger of interfering with new/current procedures there. For example, here is the Facility diagram for KLAS both before and after 25L/7R was closed for construction:

Before:
http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0906/00662AD.PDF

After:
http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0907/00662AD.PDF

Big difference, especially when the scenery is being used in an environment where things are current (read: VATSIM).

EDIT: Just also noticed that A7 is now a full 90 degree intersection, not a highspeed off of 25L now.

Scratch this. I was looking at the 0906 chart, not the 0907 chart. A7 is a highspeed.

BL.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 09:44:31 AM by bradl » Logged
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