Please research before you Buy **SOLVED**

[oscmac]

I wish I had known more about how much control the Couatl has in FSX before I bought the FSDT sceneries. It is a fine tool when it is working (as it had been working on my PC for years). But when it goes south, forget it. I have spent the last 3 days (probably 8 hours per day) trying to correct a problem with newly installed KIAH scenery and all I have to show for it is a headache. I have had double airport manager tabs, missing GSX errors, sceneries installed but not activated errors, out of date installer errors, missing buildings on sceneries that are installed, active and updated. All because I made some stupid little mistake installing KIAH? I wish I had known.

I have no doubt that if I had Umberto standing over my shoulder telling me what to do that this would have all been fixed in nothing flat. In reading the posts here the one thing you can be sure of is Couatl is NEVER the problem. It's always the dumb sap like me that messed things up. Whatever.

OK, back to it. The ADDON Manager says KIAH is not installed in the scenery library. Hmmm. I only paid about $25 for it. Maybe I just avoid Texas for a while....

[virtuali]

I have had double airport manager tabs, missing GSX errors, sceneries installed but not activated errors, out of date installer errors, missing buildings on sceneries that are installed, active and updated. All because I made some stupid little mistake installing KIAH? I wish I had known.

No, your mistake was installing KIAH (or something else), using an OUTDATED installer. The tell tale, is your reference to the "double addon manager" tab, which can ONLY happen if you installed an OLD FSDT installer *after* you installed something using the new installer.

This has been explained many times on the forum: when we changed the installation method, from installing INTO the sim (with the old installers), to installing in a separate folder OUTSIDE the sim, the new installer would migrate all your existing installation from the old folder (into the sim), to the new one. This was made in order to save you from having to uninstall everything, re-download everything and reinstall everything, which would be absolutely silly, since the actual sceneries didn't really change, they only had to be moved in the new place, which is precisely what any new installer does. AND, it will also move the software modules (Addon Manager and Couatl) to the new shared folder outside the sim, and will update the DLL/EXE.XML in FSX, or stop using them altogether (in P3D 3.4 or 4.x) and use the new add-on.xml method instead.

So, if you do the normal thing, which is to install some of the new installer over an existing installation, everything will work, because the sceneries will be moved, and the Addon Manager/Couatl will be updated and read from the new single shared location.

But if you do the mistake of installing an OLDER installer (one that was released *before* June 2017, when we switched to the new system), it WILL create a big mess, with double Addon Manager entries, duplicated areas, and there's NOTHING we can do to prevent you from using an outdated installer, and this will happen, because the old installer doesn't know anything about the new locations, so it will go back to use the old DLL/EXE.XML files method, the old scenery.cfg method and location, and will create a separate copy of the scenery in each simulator you install into, opposed to the new single location shared folder.

So, that was your only mistake: installing something using the old installer AFTER you installed something using the newest one.

Of course, this can all be sorted out this way:


UNINSTALL

- Uninstall everything, and reply YES to the question "Do you want to remove the Addon Manager ?"

- Don't forget to uninstall also a Stand-Alone Addon Manager, which is listed under "Virtuali Addon Manager X" in the Windows Control Panel, and reply YES to the question "Do you want to remove the Addon Manager ?" too

- If you installed the Qualitywings 757, uninstall that one too, and reply YES to the question "Do you want to remove the Addon Manager ?" too

- If you installed any Flightbeam scenery that use the Addon Manager, uninstall that one too, and reply YES to the question "Do you want to remove the Addon Manager ?" too


REINSTALL

- If you have the Qualitywings 757, install this FIRST, because there's no newer installer for it.

- If you have some Flightbeam sceneries that use the Addon Manager and don't have a newer installer from Flightbeam (one that use the Flightbeam Manager) yet, install these FIRST

- Download all the updated FSDT installers and all the updated Flightbeam installers.

- Install both FSDT and Flightbeam sceneries using the latest installers.

- Don't forget to install GSX, because it's MANDATORY for all FSDT products that uses SODE jetways, which includes KIAH.

I have spent the last 3 days (probably 8 hours per day) trying to correct a problem with newly installed KIAH scenery and all I have to show for it is a headache

You should have asked support for this, instead. As you can see, my reply arrived just 5 hours your post, which was made at 3:02 AM, our time.

[oscmac]

Problem "solved"? I beg to differ. The problem is the process. The problem is that a misstep in the install procedure can make FSX unusable (in my case going on 4 days now). As I stated, my problem is that I had no idea how damaging a faulty install would be. I paid for the scenery, I should not have to jump through this many hoops to enjoy it. I did not ask for help installing it because each new problem I come across has already come up here. Pretty sure I did exactly the steps you posted but will try once more in hopes that this time it works. What choice do I have?

BTW- I have been in FlightSim going back to the SubLogic/Apple IIe days. I have a background in Computer Programing. If this kicks my butt I can only imagine what some poor newbie goes through. That said, I do not pretend to know any where near what you do on the subject, Sir. Nor should I have to.

You said my problem is I installed KIAH using an "old installer"? Fine. How did I manage to get that? I bought the scenery on SimMarket and used the download link. That was my sin? For that I get all this hassle? Again, I wish I had known ahead of time the minefield I was walking into.

[virtuali]

Problem "solved"? I beg to differ

The problem is solved, because I indicated the correct procedure to solve it.

The problem is the process

The process happened to be this way, because we decided to change the installation folder, to a more efficient and clean single shared installation, which is clearly much better than the previous method, which required to install a copy of each scenery in each of the supported simulators so, for example, if you had FSX, P3D3 and P3D4, you had to install each product 3 TIMES.

While keeping the old system might be ok when there was only FSX around, it became a waste of resources and a pain to keep everything updated, when having multiple simulators installed and, the new system has become a requirement, in order to support the new installation P3D4 method, which suggest that addons should NOT install anything into the sim.

So, we *had* to switch system, it was the right thing to do.

But as I've said, there was simply nothing we could do to fix the OLD installers you might still have in your hands, neither we could prevent you to use them. How we could possibly do that ?

The problem is that a misstep in the install procedure can make FSX unusable (in my case going on 4 days now).

The only thing that would happen if you made the mistake of installing an old installer after a new one, would be having two Addon Manager, which is what you said it happened, but this will affect only the FSDT sceneries, not the whole sim.

but will try once more in hopes that this time it works.

It will surely work, provided you follow exactly those steps and, assuming you haven't done something else to your installer, which is totally unrelated to our stuff, when trying to fix things on your own.

said my problem is I installed KIAH using an "old installer"? Fine. How did I manage to get that? I bought the scenery on SimMarket and used the download link. That was my sin? For that I get all this hassle? Again, I wish I had known ahead of time the minefield I was walking into.

I'm fairly sure the download link on Simmarket is the one that points directly on the installer on our site so, if you bought it recently, surely must be the most recent installer available at the moment of your download.

But as I've said, there are other "older installers" you MIGHT have ran, like the Qualitywings 757 or the Flightbeam sceneries, and any of these could have cause the same Double Addon Manager problem.

Again, that was the ONLY problem using an old installer would cause: two Addon Manager and, most likely, sceneries not visible.

[oscmac]

Thank you for the background info and the quick follow up. I maintain that the ADDON Manager is an overly complicated, fragile and potentially reeeeeally frustrating tool. Is it really necessary?

But since that water is under the bridge, maybe you can help me get my system up and running again.

Step 1, Uninstall. I have to date purchased KDFW, KLAS, KLAX v2, KFLL, KORD, KJFK,  PHNL, Hawaii 1 & 2, LSGG and LSZH (you're welcome). And or course, KIAH. Additionally, I have FlightBeam KSFO (non-HD) and KPHX. Lastly, I have QW 757. In Windows 10, I went to Apps and features and uninstalled each and answered "yes" on removing ADDON Manager (with pleasure!). I also uninstalled the stand alone ADDON Manager (version 4.5.0.1) and GSX. I am running both FS9 and FSX on this pc, is that ok? Do I need to remove the FS9 versions of FSDT sceneries too?

At this point, when I go into FSX and look at KDFW, I get the gates but no buildings environment. Is this right? Also, I see the AP_KDFW.BGL in AFX, is this right?  In my FSX scenery library I see each scenery with the exception of KSFO and KIAH.  The sceneries that are in my Scenery Library are enabled, do I disable or remove them there?

Am I ready to reinstall?

[virtuali]

Thank you for the background info and the quick follow up. I maintain that the ADDON Manager is an overly complicated, fragile and potentially reeeeeally frustrating tool. Is it really necessary?

The Addon Manager is necessary, not complicated, and it usually works. Something you said yourself

It is a fine tool when it is working (as it had been working on my PC for years)

The only issue was the the switch to the new system. Something must have happened. The double Addon Manager IS surely caused by having installed an old installer (any old installer that contained the Addon Manager *before* we changed installation method), this is really the only possible reason.

But from your report, it seems you might have other issues as well.

I am running both FS9 and FSX on this pc, is that ok? Do I need to remove the FS9 versions of FSDT sceneries too?

- Don't touch FS9.

- It seems you followed my instructions about uninstalling.

In my FSX scenery library I see each scenery with the exception of KSFO and KIAH.  The sceneries that are in my Scenery Library are enabled, do I disable or remove them there?

This is not right. Our uninstallers should have removed the sceneries from the Scenery Library. But it's possible the scenery.cfg might have been corrupted at some stage, which could prevent their removal.

So yes, remove all the orphaned scenery areas manually, and exit the sim.

Also, I see the AP_KDFW.BGL in AFX

I think I understand what's happening: those leftovers are files belonging to sceneries that were installed using OLD installer, and were then MIGRATED by the new installer.

While the migration procedure surely works, it has a shortcoming, that we really cannot fix in any way: their uninstaller won't work anymore, because Uninstallers (*every* uninstaller out there), are created AT INSTALL TIME, and they contain a list of files that WILL be removed, when you will uninstall later.

The issue is, in order to migrate your installed sceneries without forcing you to re-download everything, uninstall everything, and reinstall everything (a wast of effort, just to move files) when we switched to the new installation system, we moved your existing sceneries in a different place. This works, but it has the side effect of preventing the old uninstaller from working, because it contained a list of files which is no longer valid, since they are now in a different place.

So, to be sure everything is clean, be sure you remove all these folders too:

YourFSXFolder\fsdreamteam
YourFSXFolder\flightbeam

And, be sure none of them is still in the Scenery Library. Now, you can reinstall, using all the latest installer.

Be aware that, both the Qualitywings 757 and the some Flightbeam sceneries (surely the old KSFO), still contain the old Addon Manager which installs in the old location so, since these wont be updated, it's important you install them first..

Then, you can install everything else from FSDT and Flightbeam, using the latest installers. The new FSDT installer WILL "migrate" both the old Flightbeam scenery AND will remove the old Addon Manager used by the Qualitywings 757, so double copies will appear.

[oscmac]

That's gotta be it then, yes? The older installer on the FlightBeam KSFO scenery has to be run 1st. WILCO.

My wife asked an interesting question when I showed her this. "What if you buy the KSFO scenery after you have installed all the other stuff? Do you have to remove everything and start over?". I could not answer that one.

OK, I have downloaded and installed the very latest QW757 and FB-KSFO. Both look fine in FSX. The ADDON Manager version shows as 4.5.0.1, is that right? I expected an older version.

[virtuali]

My wife asked an interesting question when I showed her this. "What if you buy the KSFO scenery after you have installed all the other stuff? Do you have to remove everything and start over?". I could not answer that one.

Flightbeam doesn't sell the original KSFO anymore so, that won't be a problem for new users. And KSFO HD installer was updated twice, one with an FSDT-like installer (of the *new* kind), and then again with the Flightbeam manager, which won't interact with the FSDT installer anymore.

OK, I have downloaded and installed the very latest QW757 and FB-KSFO. Both look fine in FSX. The ADDON Manager version shows as 4.5.0.1, is that right? I expected an older version.

The Addon Manager .DLL it's likely the latest version, because even those installers were made to download it from our server anyway, but it has installed into the sim folder, because that's how those installers worked. But any new installer will then move the *scenery* (only) to the new Addon Manager folder outside the sim, together with the other sceneries you are going to install next.

[oscmac]

It was all going just fine until I got to KJFK. I downloaded the install program from your website but it installed ADDON Manager version 3.1.01!!!!

[virtuali]

It was all going just fine until I got to KJFK. I downloaded the install program from your website but it installed ADDON Manager version 3.1.01!!!!

You mean KJFK V1 ?  Yes, you are right, KJFK V1 has never been updated to support the new installation system so, the installer has been left as it was before all the changes.

Since KJFK V2 has been released, in 2013, we always told FSX users not to use it or buy it (see the web page description), and we keep it only for those still using FS9. You can still install it in FS9, if you want.

V2 has more features and better frame rate in FSX, and it can be bought for a VERY favorable upgrade price (70% discount if you bought JFK V1 in 2013, or 60% discount if you bought it before that date).

It's best if you uninstall just JFK V1 from FSX now, reply YES to the question "Do you want to remove the Addon Manager" and the Couatl engine too, if asked, then reinstall anything else that use the newer installer after it, which should again remove the double Addon Manager.

If you contact me in private, I will send you a personalized offer to upgrade to JFK V2...

[oscmac]

Thank you!!!!  We can disagree about the ADDON Manager but there is no doubt about your customer service. It is by far the best I have experienced. I will continue to be a loyal and enthusiastic FS DreamTeam supporter.