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Author Topic: GA Traffic at the gates?  (Read 6766 times)
FalconAF
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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2009, 01:42:16 PM »

Harpsi,

OK, I downloaded the AFCAD from your above post.  I'm confused about something, though.  Is it an AFCAD for FS9 or FSX?  When I installed it in FSX, all the jetways disappeared.  From the title of the AFCAD file, it appears it was "updated" with AFX, which might cause this as AFX can delete some scenery objects if used to update FSX AFCADs.

Is your updated AFCAD designed for FS9 or FSX?

Thanks.

Rick
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Cereal Eater
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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2009, 02:24:36 PM »

Can I ask why you don't build an AFCAD from scratch using the Lee Sowrdy program for the FS9 version? I'm just being curious here.

Simply because we do developement work in FSX only, so we prefer to use an FSX-native editor, and then derive the FS9 version by simply compiling the FSX source XML (removing the things FS9 doesn't support) with the FS9 SDK.

So can you tell us if you are going to fix the GA area and add in the parking spots (graphics)/lines/etc? Since the entire area is pretty much "missing" from the scenery it would seem a service pack is in order or something. Yea or nae?
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virtuali
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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2009, 03:11:25 PM »

So can you tell us if you are going to fix the GA area and add in the parking spots (graphics)/lines/etc? Since the entire area is pretty much "missing" from the scenery it would seem a service pack is in order or something. Yea or nae?

If you are refering to the NW GA parking, this is what the real one is:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&sll=41.442726,12.392578&sspn=28.02389,38.056641&ie=UTF8&ll=36.096698,-115.162347&spn=0.001788,0.002481&t=h&z=19

This is how the scenery looks like:



As you can see, the parking spots lines are *very* subdued and somewhat difficult to tell apart, both in real world and in the scenery. So, just adding AFCAD parking spots even without having too apparent parking lines, should be enough.
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FalconAF
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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2009, 04:14:36 PM »

All,

I'm just really confused by all this.  Attached is an AFCAD file screencap from ADE for an AFCAD I have.  The AFCAD is for KLAS and is fully compatable in\for FSX.  As you can see, it has tons of GA parking in all the right places for Signature Aviation, the "Janet" terminal area, and other GA scenery areas that are included in FSDT KLAS.  It also has the many overflow parking "spots" that exist for commercial aircraft at the real KLAS.  And the AFCAD uses the crosswind runway technique.  It works exceptionally well for all AI traffic situations in FSX.

Please don't get me wrong...I'm not complaining.  But why is it so difficult to get an AFCAD like this for FSDT KLAS?  I myself don't design AFCADs.  I downloaded ADE long ago just so I could use it to look at them.  This morning, I used it to load the default FSDT KLAS AFCAD (AP_KLAS.BGL) installed in the "scenery" folder of my FSDT KLAS installation, and what gets displayed looks nothing like this.  I have no idea how to succesfully modify the included AFCAD that came with FSDT KLAS, but I find it hard to believe that SOMEONE from FSDT can't use the FREE ADE tool to produce an AFCAD like this for such a high-quality KLAS scenery. 

I don't know...maybe I'm just too ignorant about all of this right now.  But the tools seem to be available for someone to make it happen for the FSX version of the KLAS scenery.

I intend no disrespect towards anyone at FSDT about anything above.  I'm just really confused about it all right now.

Rick

EDIT:  One other thing I forgot to mention.  As you will notice in the AFCAD below, runway 1L\19R is depicted as a Concrete runway, which is what it is at the real-world KLAS.  The other runways are Asphalt, as in the real world, and in FSDT KLAS.  Why did FSDT make KLAS 1L\19R an Asphalt runway?

 

 

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 04:33:31 PM by FalconAF » Logged
virtuali
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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2009, 04:31:01 PM »

I'm just really confused by all this.  Attached is an AFCAD file screencap from ADE for an AFCAD I have.  The AFCAD is for KLAS and is fully compatable in\for FSX.  As you can see, it has tons of GA parking in all the right places for Signature Aviation and other GA scenery areas that are included in FSDT KLAS. 

Yes, there's some confusion going on here. The previous poster ( 108 ) said it that we should first add parking lines in the visible scenery, before anyone designing the AFCAD would be able to add parkings spots.

I simply posted the picture to show that, in real world, the parking lines in that area are very subtle, just like in the scenery. And of course, it's always possible to add any number of parking spots, even if the parking lines are not very apparent.


Quote
Please don't get me wrong...I'm not complaining.  But why is it so difficult to get an AFCAD like this for FSDT KLAS? 

Who said it's difficult ? Who said that it will not come ? If you just followed the developement of ALL our sceneries relased so far, we ALWAYS relased the scenery FIRST, with a very basic AFCAD, that can be used as a starting point for everyone to work with, especially Harpsi, who usually likes to do AFCAD for us.

THEN, after the AFCAD reaches some kind of stability, we merge all the addition in the one we supply with the scenery. It has worked well so far for LSZH, KORD, KJFK and LSSG so, I don't see why it should be any different for KLAS.
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FalconAF
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« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2009, 05:26:11 PM »

virtuali,

Like I said, I didn't mean any disrespect with my post.  But the way this is going, it IS confusing.  There are two versions of the KLAS scenery...FS9 and FSX.  There are two separate Product Support forums for them.  With the exception of one post in the FSX forum about parking codes only, the impression someone could easily get is that any current AFCAD endeavours are for the FS9 version only.  Most posts relating to FSX AFCAD problems are in this FS9 support area.  I (and probably many of your other customers) don't use FS9 anymore.  If I am looking for support for your FSX product, I "normally" wouldn't be searching for it in the FS9 support forum.

And I'm sure Harpsi is well deserving of his hard (and much respected) work on creating better AFCADs for the FSDT sceneries.  I certainly appreciate all he is doing for KLAS right now.  But if I understand it correctly, those are being created using AFX...a payware program.  And AFX DOES have compatability problems when creating AFCADs for "FSX-specific" sceneries.  Many of your customers use ADE...the freeware program...which does not have these problems with FSX-specific AFCADs.  It is very easy to "destroy" an AFX created AFCAD if it is opened in ADE (if the user isn't aware of how this can happen), so that it won't work in FSX anymore.  Which can easily cause more "support" requests when incremental AFCAD updates users download for the FSX scenery versions quit working (if the end-user hosed it using ADE).

I'll crawl back in my cave now, and sit quietly awaiting an FSX AFCAD worthy of the outstanding FSX scenery developed for KLAS.

Rick

EDIT:  Just to be sure that you know I honestly didn't mean any animosity with any of my posts here, the below is what caused all my confusion.  It is a quote from you in a previous post in this thread. 

"Simply because we do developement work in FSX only, so we prefer to use an FSX-native editor, and then derive the FS9 version by simply compiling the FSX source XML (removing the things FS9 doesn't support) with the FS9 SDK."

That led me to believe you develop the sceneries for FSX, THEN "do whatever is necessary" to make them work for FS9.  That implied (to me) that any AFCAD discussion\rework here revolved around an FSX version of the scenery and AFCAD.  But I just read your reply in Harpsi's newest post about a new KLAS AFCAD, and it says the AFCAD is for FS9 only right now.  Your reply says that as soon as it is completed, it will be adapted to the FSX version of KLAS.  You gotta admit...that doesn't quite agree with your quote above about the FSX version of the scenery being done first, followed by a "derival" of the FS9 version.  That's what made this all so confusing. 

Now that I understand what is actually going on...the development of a functional FS9 AFCAD FIRST...then a "dirivitive" of it for the FSX version...I'll just wait for the final FSX version.

Peace     





« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 05:46:10 PM by FalconAF » Logged
virtuali
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« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2009, 05:36:10 PM »

Like I said, I didn't mean any disrespect with my post.  But the way this is going, it IS confusing.

You are making this far more complex than it is.

As I've said already, you don't need to worry: as soon as we find the FS9 AFCAD has reached a satisfactory level, WE will take those addition and will integrate into the FSX version. You don't need to worry how we do it, we know what to do, we don't use any strange tool that would create problems, most of our editing is done directly at the source code level, and the final scenery is always compiled with the MS BGLCOMP coming from the official FSX SDK, I don't know where you get the idea we compile BGL with AFX, when we said, many times, we use FSX BGLCOMP, meaning, our files are 100% SDK compliant.

And, in any case, this shouldn't be your problem: you are not supposed to do the merging between the work Harpsi will do in FS9 into FSX. We are so, as long as we say (as we said, many times already by now) that once the FS9 file is finished, a similar FSX version WILL come, made by us, where, exactly, the issue is ?
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FalconAF
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« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2009, 05:53:25 PM »

Our posts crossed.  I added an edit to my last reply, and it looks like you didn't see it before you posted your above reply.  It explains it.  No problem anymore.  I had assumed from your previous quoted reply the FIRST version of an updated AFCAD would be for the FSX version.  When I downloaded Harpsi's first AFCAD in another thread, it didn't work in the FSX KLAS version.  I didn't know it was designed for FS9 only.  And based on some other posts from other FSX users in the forums, I think they probably didn't realize it either, especially if KLAS was their first FSDT purchase and they didn't have the previous experience of how the updated AFCADs are developed and released (the order they are done in).

See my post at the very top of Page 2 here.  I actually thought maybe something like that was happening, and asked if Harpsi's AFCAD was for FS9 or FSX.  I never got an answer to it, but THOUGHT it was for FSX.  That resulted in my subsequent posts.

All is fine now.  Just a mass miscommunication on both our parts.

Rick

« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 05:55:46 PM by FalconAF » Logged
Cereal Eater
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« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2009, 10:18:18 PM »

lol - quite litterally a "mass communication".  Cheesy
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felixthreeone
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« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2009, 10:36:15 PM »

And that is all I am waiting for...Is a stable, well-assembled afcad (Harpsi you are the MAN)...and I will be purchasing this scenery. Thanks, Virtuali, for continuing FS9 support!!
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big_al
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« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2009, 06:07:35 AM »

"We are so, as long as we say (as we said, many times already by now) that once the FS9 file is finished, a similar FSX version WILL come, made by us, where, exactly, the issue is ?"

Oh is that right? Can you please point out where I may find this fsx afcad for Zurich? Numerous fs9 afcads have been out for ages, where is your afcad for LSZH? I shouldn't have to go hunting around for extra files just for basic operation of your scenery. You make wonderful scenery and thank you for that, but without an afcad it is incomplete
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virtuali
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« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2009, 11:10:31 AM »

Oh is that right? Can you please point out where I may find this fsx afcad for Zurich?

In the scenery installer, of course. Where else ? Zurich has been updated 3 times, after the release, the current version is 1.4


Quote
Numerous fs9 afcads have been out for ages, where is your afcad for LSZH? I shouldn't have to go hunting around for extra files just for basic operation of your scenery. You make wonderful scenery and thank you for that, but without an afcad it is incomplete

And in fact, you don't, because it's in the installer of the current version.

Note that, the FSX version is *based* on Harpsi FS9 version, but it's not 100% the same, it reflects mostly the parking assignement of the latest FS9 AFCAD found in the forum.
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harpsi
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« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2009, 11:39:19 AM »

Quote
And I'm sure Harpsi is well deserving of his hard (and much respected) work on creating better AFCADs for the FSDT sceneries.  I certainly appreciate all he is doing for KLAS right now.  But if I understand it correctly, those are being created using AFX...a payware program.  And AFX DOES have compatability problems when creating AFCADs for "FSX-specific" sceneries.  Many of your customers use ADE...the freeware program...which does not have these problems with FSX-specific AFCADs.  It is very easy to "destroy" an AFX created AFCAD if it is opened in ADE (if the user isn't aware of how this can happen), so that it won't work in FSX anymore.  Which can easily cause more "support" requests when incremental AFCAD updates users download for the FSX scenery versions quit working (if the end-user hosed it using ADE).

Let me ask some questions because then nobody needs to ask or to comment about that:

1. I only have FS9. I don´t use FSX, which means that my afcad files will work only in FS9. Maybe in some time I will have FSX. I don´t have time to fly for now. I am very busy at the moment with work. Maybe in 6 months or 1 year I will have more time. I am only available to make better afcads for FSDreamteam because itis like a seasonal work. I work now 2 or 3 weeks on the file based on your statements and then I will probably work on one next scenery which is coming maybe in 1 or 2 or 3 months. That´s not too much work for me.

2. I am not part of the team itself. I just work for free and for pleasure. In compensation I have the scenery for free in order to make experiences with the afcad file and to run a healthy discussion on the forum about this topic, having and discussing ideas from everyone. I don´t want to make "My afcad file". I want to have a file based on users´ comments, mainly users who participate in the forum. I don´t know who are all the others, naturally... I only know the ones who participate here in the discussion.

3. I only work with Lee Swordy´s tool. I don´t use AFX. From what I´ve heard there are compatibility issues between both, specially if you want to treat a file with Lee Swordy´s tool which was originally done with AFX.

4. I agree with virtuali: the team sells the scenery and we, users, the most interested ones of course, "play" with the afcad. When it gets stable we will have a big update together with other scenery updates, when and if needed. If the team goes on this way, specially because AI traffic is not used by everybody, we can have more sceneries per year. That´s what everybody want, right? If the team would be able to do 6 sceneries per year, I doin´t know if there would be sad people, team included.  Grin

I hope I was clear. Wink

harpsi
 

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