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Author Topic: "Acropolis"-effect at KLAS  (Read 45371 times)
Bert Groner
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« on: April 18, 2009, 03:37:26 PM »

Hello all together!

Congratulations to the whole FSDreamTeam for releasing the long awaited KLAS. It clearly seems to be a very well done successor of simFlyers version issues a long time ago for this prominent airport.

The only thing should corrected on my point of view is the hugh "Acropolis"-effect which is conspicious with FS 2004 (not tested with FS X right now) from the middle of the scenery to their western boundaries. As Umberto told me already that this is not a problem of the scenery cause it has got the right elevation but not the mesh-add-on "FS GLOBAL 2008 X" (for FS 2004 and FS X) I use.



But as the makers of this (and I guess this counts for other meshes as well) mesh are telling methat their product has got the correct elevation as well I suggest and hope that "Andydigital" should dive into that please as he have done this succcessfully with Geneva before:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=1370.0

Thanks in advance!

Bert
FS MAGAZIN
www.fsmagazin.de







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virtuali
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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2009, 04:07:35 PM »

As Umberto told me already that this is not a problem of the scenery cause it has got the right elevation but not the mesh-add-on "FS GLOBAL 2008 X" (for FS 2004 and FS X) I use.

Just to be more precise: the issue is not the mesh being "wrong" or not precise enough. Instead, is exactly the opposite: it's *because* the mesh is "right", that the scenery shows this effect.

The reason is, the real world KLAS (as many airports in the world) is not flat across all its area, there's a 100 ft elevation difference, for example, between the east/west side of Rwy 25.

But, since FS9 or FSX don't support sloped airports and runways, the airport has to be flatten to the elevation of the published QNH. This will create a visual difference in areas were the flattened airport meets with the mesh, which is of course similar to real world so it IS sloped.

The default meshes from MS had some pre-processing, that smooths the mesh in an area 1-2 km around every airport, so the visual effect do not get noticed, but this technique is not always used by mesh authors, that's why the effect is more visible with 3rd party meshes.

Of course, this issue is more relevant to FS9, were the use of 3rd party meshes is basically mandatory. Since FSX already use SRTM 90 m meshes by default (at least in the US and Europe), and this mesh HAS been pre-processed as explained above, the effect is far less obvious in FSX.
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Bert Groner
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2009, 04:54:59 PM »

Understand, Umberto, thanks!

So hopefully "Andydigital" will find time to take care of that issue fo the sake of FS-2004-users...

Best for now!

Bert

P.S. Another idea might be to extend the "Acropolis"-effect into the deep vincinity so that is no more noticable while approaching KLAS. What do you think about that?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 04:58:57 PM by Bert Groner » Logged
AaronMyers
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2009, 05:13:39 PM »

I was about to post about the same issue. It's so dramatic that the far corners of the ground textures actually hang over the cliff.



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virtuali
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2009, 05:24:09 PM »

The issue is that in FS9 it might be more tricky to create a mesh fix, because you need to create a whole LOD for the mesh, while in FSX is possible to create a very small local mesh instead.
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tiggerchen2001
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2009, 05:27:55 PM »

Yes same Problems here with FS2004. No other Mesh, only default.

[attachment deleted by admin]


* FS9-KLAS2.jpg (105.84 KB, 1280x1024 - viewed 1218 times.)

* fs9-KLAS3.jpg (175.25 KB, 1280x1024 - viewed 1127 times.)
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virtuali
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2009, 05:33:32 PM »

Yes same Problems here with FS2004. No other Mesh, only default.

Sorry, you don't have the default mesh.

This is how it looks like with FS9 default mesh in the same spot


[attachment deleted by admin]
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virtuali
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2009, 05:37:34 PM »

tiggerchen2001: do you still have the Flatten area in the scenery.cfg for the Simflyers KLAS ? Or, a BGL leftover from that scenery ?
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tiggerchen2001
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2009, 06:22:53 PM »

No Umberto, I'm never had a Las Vegas Scenery.

Greating Andy

PS: im also scanning for dobble AFCAd. Only one (from FSDT) are active. And AFCAD show me only this, no stock Airport, only FSDT KLAS!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 06:25:25 PM by tiggerchen2001 » Logged
B777ER
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2009, 06:23:34 PM »

Understand, Umberto, thanks!

So hopefully "Andydigital" will find time to take care of that issue fo the sake of FS-2004-users...

Best for now!

Bert

P.S. Another idea might be to extend the "Acropolis"-effect into the deep vincinity so that is no more noticable while approaching KLAS. What do you think about that?

Who is this Andydigital and what does he do?
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Eric
virtuali
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2009, 06:35:48 PM »

PS: im also scanning for dobble AFCAd. Only one (from FSDT) are active. And AFCAD show me only this, no stock Airport, only FSDT KLAS!

So, if it's not an AFCAD, and you never had a scenery for KLAS, it's a mesh, most likely.

As you can see from my screenshots, the scenery doesn't have the problem. I've also tried with TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL set to 21, which usually might create issues like this, but it doesn't change anything: it works just fine, with none of the problem you are having.

Note that, if it's a stray BGL not in the AFCAD format, that was left from an older installation, it will not be detected by an AFCAD scanning utility.
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tiggerchen2001
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2009, 07:04:01 PM »

Hey Umberto,

after 2. scanning of all Scenerys, Im found an mesh from Grand canyon. After deactivation this, no more Phototexture  in the Air. Just looks like the Airport in FSX.

The Mesh come from Genesis and called GCDEM10 version 1.2 FSGenesis

Thx for your help!

Greatings Andy
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Andydigital
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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2009, 12:38:24 AM »

Hi I'm Andydigital and I made the blend for Geneva for FSX. I don't have this airport and I cant do blends for FS2004 either unfortunately for the reasons specified earlier about them being far harder to do and not to mention it would take very much longer to build also, as it was the local mesh I did for Geneva took over 6 hours to make. I don't have FS Global either so I couldn't make a blend to match even if I had weeks to spare to make it. Sorry.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 12:41:54 AM by Andydigital » Logged


Cheers,
Andy.
AaronMyers
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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2009, 12:44:31 AM »

Shame there's nothing that can be done for us lowly FS9 users. If not for the FS9 version my dollars would have likely gone elsewhere, but the airport itself is indeed great work.
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virtuali
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« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2009, 12:57:28 AM »

Shame there's nothing that can be done for us lowly FS9 users.

That's why we are keep repeating how FSX is a much better *platform* for developement. There are countless of little things that were improved in FSX, but unfortunately, too many developers are still working on FSX as if it was FS9, not fully exploiting it.

The FSX terrain engine is VASTLY improved over FS9, the fact you can easily create local adjustment meshes, helps a lot fixing issues like this one, while in FS9, because of the fact the terrrain engine is far less flexible, you have such issues like a Grand Canyon mesh that affect KLAS airport, probably because they are both in the same LOD. But that's just an example of the many small little things that makes developing for FS9 harder, not because it's hard by itself, but because is more difficult to handle the countless conflicts between 3rd party addons that are usually caused by the lack of flexibility in FS9.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 01:29:34 AM by virtuali » Logged

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