F-18 carrier brake problems

[SpazSinbad]

subs17, I'm not making the KAHU model. It is up to the model maker how it is made. My comments are on the result.

For real world A4 the simple thought was to 'put the right boot into the basket' and it was as simple as that for air refuelling from an A4 buddy store. Most jets today would have seats adjustable, with the pilot having a preferred seat position. Mine would have been full up so that helmet almost 'buzzed' on the canopy. Some preferred seat at lowest postion (not me) I like to see as much as I can.

[SUBS17]

So could you see the fuel probe with your head lined up with the HUD or did you have to move it to the right and forward to see it? The reason I ask and greatly suggest that the people making this is to take it into account as with 6dof using trakir you have the freedom to take advantage of current technology to make it into a master piece.
Show the people doing it this:

Note 20secs from start how the pilot can see the probe.
Compare to this:

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Thats the difference between a 6dof pit and a 3d pit.
And heres why, because of the trakir:
http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/

[SpazSinbad]

subs17, Have not seen the videos yet but will after this post. I'll pass on your information to the model maker and post a reply - if any. I don't have this TRAKIR and am unlikely to get it to test. Do you have TRAKIR?

For an A4 pilot the probe (bent or otherwise) should be in view at all times. One sees beyond the oval front frame and eventually both the frame and the probe become invisible for all intents and purposes. I guess for the HUD users this would happen also. The HUD seems to fill the front view now; but the pilot looks through and beyond all this clutter to focus on what is relevant at the time. So for air refuelling from a buddy tanker the pilot would fly slowly up to the refuelling basket to put the probe into the basket so that it will be locked there by, not so much concentrating on the probe tip; but by imagining 'putting the right boot into the basket'. This helps the new pilot especially go beyond stopping inches short of the basket. IF this happens then all kinds of funny business is likely to occur; which can become very amusing to onlookers. The new pilot will tend to start over controlling with the aircraft gyrating around the stable probe tip - just short of the basket. No one can do this intentionally but if they stop short this is what will happen. So they need to concentrate on two aspects to cruise slowly into the basket - then no worries.

[SUBS17]

Yes I have a Trakir I bought it because when I used to dogfight people in lockon the guys with trakir always used to beat me until I bought one. Essentially a Trakir is a infrared camera that reads the movement of infrared reflectors on either a baseball cap or the reflectors can be setup on a headset. With 6dof you can turn your pilots head left/right/up/down/sideways left/right/tilt head left/right and if you move your head into closer to the monitor then the screen zooms in or back to zoom out. In a dogfight you can keep track of the bandit the whole time without using keys or Hotas buttons to pan the view.
Heres a video of the latest trakir(5) in the latest FPS sim Arma2.(which features aircraft as well)

IF this happens then all kinds of funny business is likely to occur; which can become very amusing to onlookers.

Yeah we get situations like this refuelling in FalconAF where guys over do the throttle inputs the only sim I've seen so far that models basket refuelling the best is Lockon Flaming cliffs where the slack in the hose was modeled(not scripted) which was alot of fun to hook up to. Currently F4AF is the most realistic sim for refuelling as it has Tacan channels and the AI respond and behave realistically. They'll hookup to the probe top up then move to the left wing they also model not so good AI pilots who take longer to top up. VRS superhornet features basket refuelling as well but I haven't tried it yet as I do not have the full version of FSUIPC.

I can only imagine how much fun it is to do it IRL as you've got the wind effects as well to contend with I've seen videos of Skyhawks refuelling and notice that with the Kahu in particular the pilot is looking close to the HUD.
I've read about worse things happening while refuelling:

Gold A4

Kiwi Red Aerobatic display team

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Bombing with A4s

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Why Airshows in New Zealand can never be as good as this now.

[SpazSinbad]

The refuelling looks impressive in the graphic and as you describe in those other sims which I don't have. I can understand how the TRACKIR is good for the dogfight capability. Having a good mental map of where opponents are and what they are likely to do helps a lot but of course keeping them in sight is ideal, preferably at 12 o'clock.  Not having seen the videos yet I cannot comment on them. The YIPS or "heebie geebies" as it was called long ago were worse with the straight probe A4. A newbie would go right to the edge of the basket and STOP! Then he would rotate his aircraft every which way but not move the tip of the probe from the edge of the basket. It is highly comical to watch from the outside and no fun inside the aircraft. During training a pilot has it drilled into him to NOT touch the other aircraft in formation for obvious reasons. It is a prime directive to have to overcome for air refuelling and not so easy. Behind a A4 buddy store the turbulence is not noticed except the turbulence at low level that will make hooking on more difficult. In clear air at altitude the receiver will be well below the turbulence generated by the tanker. I have not done air refuelling with any other refueller so I guess with large tankers there must be some turbulence to contend with. Dino Cattaneo has info on 'FreeTrack' here for anyone interested:

http://indiafoxtecho.blogspot.com/2009/01/freetrack-freeware-head-tracking.html

[SUBS17]

Yeah I've seen Kahu A4s refuel in barrel roll it looked quite impressive pity they lost one doing that manouver though.

[SpazSinbad]

subs17, the barrel roll formation with one plugged was called 'the swan'. I have my thoughts on the crash that are not relevant for this forum. However there are lots of good videos of the 'Kiwi Red' doing 'the swan' online. I guess one of your links above shows it. In the meantime here is a video of a would be 'Kiwi Red' coming to grips with ARF: http://files.filefront.com/RNZAFrefuelYIPSwmv/;13807798;/fileinfo.html (3Mb .WMV video)

[SUBS17]

Yeah I've always wanted to do that in mp hopefully either Jet Thunder, FighterOps or DCS will feature an A4 with that ability in MP. In VRS Superhornet there is a buddy refuel pod for the Superhornet but its invisible in MP with FS2004. I'm hoping the FSX version might work better since FSX supports slingloads so you can connect objects to aircraft. It was very sad about the A4 lost doing that barrel roll as it affected all the other A4s in service getting less used until they mothballed them.

[SpazSinbad]

Subs17, your comment about the A4Ks 'being less used' because of an accident is not true. Reason why RNZAF Strike Wing disbanded was political and yes the Skyhawks were getting old, needing upgrading again; but it gets too complicated to explain in detail for this forum. Standing out in the rain today they are not likely to be ever sold - after all this time being grounded. Old, more capable US aircraft (F-15s & F-16s) will become available soon to probably flood the civilian / warbird support market in the USA. I'm hoping the RNZAF A4Ks will go to museums etc. One example KAHU is owed to the FAAM museum at NAS Nowra (gentleman's agreement at the time of sale from Australia to New Zealand). My choice would be the survivor TA4G (turned into a KAHU). That one would be a great asset for display showing how the G became a KAHU.

[SUBS17]

Speaking of A4s.

Nice to see VBA using them here.

[SpazSinbad]

Thanks, these guys make great videos, what is the sim being used here?

[SUBS17]

Its Lockon Flaming Cliffs I've been to VBA and some of the other Formation team try outs. They are alot of fun to fly with but it is quite demanding as it takes a fair bit of concentration.(also requires daily trainning to perform like that)




You'll probably find that those A4s would likely use an SU33 pit as most aircraft mods require either F-15C or SU33 pit aside the C130 which I think uses an A-10A pit thats the limitation with Lockon FC but with DCS full 6dof 3d pits and addon aircraft are possible due to the SDK.

[SpazSinbad]

Thanks for sim info (only have standard old LOMAC here) subs17, looks like you have fun.

[SUBS17]

Thats a few years ago I did that now days I fly with the Airwolves for Seawolves Virtual Navy and our primary sim is Falcon 4 Allied Forces although some guys still use Lockon. Just recently some of the guys have got DCS Black Shark so thats the next sim I'm learning until they release the A-10C. Last month we were in a war with another Virtual Navy the 5th Element which went well and was fought in the Air, at Sea and on the ground in the Panama theatre. Our next exercise is Red Flag which will be next month sometime.

[SpazSinbad]

Perhaps this 'cheapware' KAHU will become available soon? Anyway with a few issues to correct here is a mess about video of a test flight: (some items not shown or visible - next time the HUD will be demoed also)
"Short Description [KAHU for FSX version 1 test flight]
Version 1 test for KAHU A4K Skyhawk at NAS Nowra (where else?) in colours for No.2 Sqdn RNZAF. Brake Chute, spoilers all AOK. Work needed on engine responsiveness and HUD AoA indexer needs to match indexer. Lots of things to see in 7 quick minutes. 100Mb .WMV file is not highest video quality but one can get the drift from this long video that the quality of the work in the sim is just excellent. KUDOs to the team wot made it.  I just flied it. For next video I'll have to remember to mess about with the EXCELLENT HUD!"

http://files.filefront.com/KahuV1testNowra7minswmv/;13832397;/fileinfo.html