Couatl crashing P3Dv3.3.5

[Emi]

Dear FSDT support (Umberto?),

since about one week when I updated Couatl I get random crashes of my P3D enroute flying the new PMDG 747.
In the PMDG forums several people had the same and all could eliminate the crashes by uninstalling Couatl and the Addon Manager.

I am another of these guys suffering the issues, but since disabling all my FSDT and FB airports is not an option for me I am asking for your support here.

Here are some of my Crashreports:

Problemsignatur
Problemereignisame:   APPCRASH
Anwendungsname:   Prepar3D.exe
Anwendungsversion:   3.3.5.17625
Anwendungszeitstempel:   5758bb31
Fehlermodulname:   StackHash_ae77
Fehlermodulversion:   10.0.14393.479
Fehlermodulzeitstempel:   58256ca0
Ausnahmecode:   c0000374
Ausnahmeoffset:   PCH_EF_FROM_ntdll+0x0006EB8C
Betriebsystemversion:   10.0.14393.2.0.0.256.48
Gebietsschema-ID:   1031
Zusatzinformation 1:   ae77
Zusatzinformation 2:   ae77539f15c6852208019c600e73c756
Zusatzinformation 3:   0e7d
Zusatzinformation 4:   0e7d18310c1b982de385a59184b5c8c6


Problemsignatur
Problemereignisame:   APPCRASH
Anwendungsname:   Prepar3D.exe
Anwendungsversion:   3.3.5.17625
Anwendungszeitstempel:   5758bb31
Fehlermodulname:   StackHash_ae77
Fehlermodulversion:   10.0.14393.479
Fehlermodulzeitstempel:   58256ca0
Ausnahmecode:   c0000374
Ausnahmeoffset:   PCH_51_FROM_ntdll+0x0006EB8C
Betriebsystemversion:   10.0.14393.2.0.0.256.48
Gebietsschema-ID:   1031
Zusatzinformation 1:   ae77
Zusatzinformation 2:   ae77539f15c6852208019c600e73c756
Zusatzinformation 3:   0e7d
Zusatzinformation 4:   0e7d18310c1b982de385a59184b5c8c6

 Problemsignatur
Problemereignisame:   APPCRASH
Anwendungsname:   Prepar3D.exe
Anwendungsversion:   3.3.5.17625
Anwendungszeitstempel:   5758bb31
Fehlermodulname:   StackHash_998b
Fehlermodulversion:   10.0.14393.479
Fehlermodulzeitstempel:   58256ca0
Ausnahmecode:   c0000374
Ausnahmeoffset:   PCH_F0_FROM_ntdll+0x0006EB8C
Betriebsystemversion:   10.0.14393.2.0.0.256.48
Gebietsschema-ID:   1031
Zusatzinformation 1:   998b
Zusatzinformation 2:   998bd2cc0a78e70f47421bdd5570d82d
Zusatzinformation 3:   b213
Zusatzinformation 4:   b213c05ed640829977356087c110d97e


These ONLY happen with the Addon Manager and Couatl installed, if I disable those the crashes are gone (checked with about 50 flight hours!).

The issue seems expecially common over northern Canada when flying from Europe to North America.
About at the Canadian border, sometimes 100NM in front, sometimes 100NM behind.

I know it sounds a lot like something else causing it - but believe me, without the Addon Manager/Couatl installed I can do any flight over that area and don't have issues, as soon as they are installed it crashes.

The issue is even reproducable when loading up a safed flight from FSUIPCs autosafe -> It'll crash again within a few minutes of reloading the flight.
If I uninstall Couatl and the Addon Manager before reloading the safed flight it works however.

Please help me sorting this out.

With greetings,
Emanuel

[virtuali]

since about one week when I updated Couatl I get random crashes of my P3D enroute flying the new PMDG 747. In the PMDG forums several people had the same and all could eliminate the crashes by uninstalling Couatl and the Addon Manager.

Have you tried to disable/update FSUIPC instead ? There has been known issues with FSUIPC crashes with the latest P3D Hotfix, which are difficult to reproduce, which many users linked to having update the Addon Manager, but just because we released it the same day of the Hotfix so, what caused the crash, was installing the Hotfix.

The issue is even reproducable when loading up a safed flight from FSUIPCs autosafe -> It'll crash again within a few minutes of reloading the flight. If I uninstall Couatl and the Addon Manager before reloading the safed flight it works however.

Maybe we are looking at a still unknown conflict between FSUIPC and our software (although I cannot even imaging what it is, since we don't interact with it) so, please, try to disable it, and see if it makes any difference.

[Emi]

Have you tried to disable/update FSUIPC instead ? There has been known issues with FSUIPC crashes with the latest P3D Hotfix, which are difficult to reproduce, which many users linked to having update the Addon Manager, but just because we released it the same day of the Hotfix so, what caused the crash, was installing the Hotfix.

Yes, but FSUIPC was not the issue. As you can see in the crashreports I am *not* on the latest P3D version, but still on version 3.3.5 which runs stable with FSUIPC.
The issue has to be elsewhere.

Maybe we are looking at a still unknown conflict between FSUIPC and our software (although I cannot even imaging what it is, since we don't interact with it) so, please, try to disable it, and see if it makes any difference.

I tried it, but it did not help, unless the issue also persists if you use an older FSUIPC version from the P3Dv3.3.5 times togeather with your latest addon manager.
My installed FSUIPC copy is about 2 months old. Were there any issues with that version?

In that case I would be glad if you could provide me the version of the Addon Manager from about one month ago which was running stable.

[virtuali]

I tried it, but it did not help, unless the issue also persists if you use an older FSUIPC version from the P3Dv3.3.5 times togeather with your latest addon manager. My installed FSUIPC copy is about 2 months old. Were there any issues with that version?

As I've said, there shouldn't be any conflict, in theory, since we don't interact with it but, you cannot be sure

In that case I would be glad if you could provide me the version of the Addon Manager from about one month ago which was running stable.

You are assuming the problem is the Addon Manager, but it's not. One month ago, there wasn't any PMDG 747, for example. How you can be so sure the crash is *caused* by the Addon Manager and not, for example, a simple memory exhaustion caused by a memory hungry airplane running on a 32 bit application ?

If you are referring to the PMDG forum on Avsim, the only post I could find which was related to GSX, was from another user that also posted here, who THOUGHT the problem was the Addon Manager, but in fact it was an entirely unrelated software, which caused a conflict with the VC++ runtime libraries (this software used an outdated version).

[jeffreymg]

I have never had a problem also till today and had a crash using P3D 3.4
crash log below loaded PMDG 747v3 at KMIA

couatl v3.1 (build 3625)
panic log started on Tue Feb 21 17:05:16 2017

problem raised by engine or unspecified addon
{'User Pos': (25.798839457493614, -80.27883486668968, 6.35564 m, 3.91764 m, 235.50999534635113)}
Error: exception CREATE_OBJECT_FAILED in call AICreateSimulatedObject param #1 'FSXit_Xpoi_fr2'
{'User Pos': (25.798839457493614, -80.27883486668968, 6.35564 m, 3.91764 m, 235.50999534635113)}

JeffG

[virtuali]

I have never had a problem also till today and had a crash using P3D 3.4

Error: exception CREATE_OBJECT_FAILED in call AICreateSimulatedObject param #1 'FSXit_Xpoi_fr2'
{'User Pos': (25.798839457493614, -80.27883486668968, 6.35564 m, 3.91764 m, 235.50999534635113)}[/quote]

This problem, which has been already fixed in the latest version, can be fixed by removing the following folder:

FSX\fsdreamteam\Couatl\XPOI

Or, by applying the current Live Update.

[Emi]

You are assuming the problem is the Addon Manager, but it's not.

But it works if I remove the Addon Manager.
On 5 flights with the Addon Manager enabled I had 5 crashes.
On 5 subsequent flights with the Addon Manager uninstalled I did not have a single crash.
On another 3 flights with the Addon Manager reinstalled again I had another 3 crashes.

Points into a clear direction if you ask me.

for example, a simple memory exhaustion caused by a memory hungry airplane running on a 32 bit application ?

That's easy, I keep monitoring my memory all along the flight and it does never exceed 3.5GB enroute and 3.7GB after landing. So plenty of memory left.
When the crashes happened my VAS was at about 3.3GB (my usual value enroute).

Furthermore I have previously flown the FS Labs A320 which uses about 500mb more memory than any of the PMDG aircraft.
But for the sake of testing, I also flew the PMDG 777 previously without crashes, which uses an equal amount of memory as the 747 does.

One month ago, there wasn't any PMDG 747, for example. How you can be so sure the crash is *caused* by the Addon Manager

Another simple answer: It first appeared after updating Couatl and the Addon Manager. It remained ever since.
Thus my request in my last post if you could provide me the files from about one or two months ago, so that I could install and test these.
This would easily give us a clear indication whether or not one of the recent updates introduced such crashes.

[virtuali]

But it works if I remove the Addon Manager.

Have you tried with another airplane, instead ?

Have you tried running the sim with ONLY the FSDT modules running ?

If you don't do this, you cannot say "it's the Addon Manager". At most, you could say there might be a NEW *conflict* between the Addon Manager and some other module that for some reason started only now.

If you can provide me with a replicable case of P3D crashing JUST with the Addon Manager installer, then we could find something to start with. Don't you think that if WE had any crashes, we would have found and fixed them ALREADY

That's easy, I keep monitoring my memory all along the flight and it does never exceed 3.5GB enroute and 3.7GB after landing. So plenty of memory left.

PLENTY That's VERY close to memory exhaustion instead. You DO NOT have the whole 4GB available, that's only the maximum theoretical amount of VAS for a 32 bit process, but you cannot use it all. In fact, it's a very well known fact that FSX/P3D will start to risk crashes when approaching 3.7 GB.

[Emi]

Have you tried with another airplane, instead ?

Yes, I tried the FSL A320, but with the same result.

Have you tried running the sim with ONLY the FSDT modules running ?

Apart from FSUIPC (the older version) yes.
Trying without FSUIPC is impossible at the moment because all my addon planes depend on it.

If you don't do this, you cannot say "it's the Addon Manager". At most, you could say there might be a NEW *conflict* between the Addon Manager and some other module that for some reason started only now.

All I can say is that it crashes with the Addon Manager. And it does not crash without the Addon Manager.
So it is related and so I ask for your support to solve the issue.

Don't you think that if WE had any crashes, we would have found and fixed them ALREADY Huh

I'd never say that, experience in customer support shows that developers (and beta testers) can miss issues though.
No program is perfect, regardless how much effort went into it and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

PLENTY Huh That's VERY close to memory exhaustion instead. You DO NOT have the whole 4GB available, that's only the maximum theoretical amount of VAS for a 32 bit process, but you cannot use it all. In fact, it's a very well known fact that FSX/P3D will start to risk crashes when approaching 3.7 GB.

VERY close can be relative. From a pilots point of view it is a safe bet in Prepar3Dv3 that you will make your landing without any crashes and even still do a go around and diversion. At least that's what experience shows from my pilots point of view. From your developers point of view it may look different, no doubt. All I can say is that it works for me.
Keep in mind the crashes happen enroute in the middle of nowhere, where the VAS usage is about 3.2-3.3GB. So at least during the crashes we can agree that there is plenty of VAS left, can we?

[virtuali]

Yes, I tried the FSL A320, but with the same result.

An even more memory hungry airplane, as you said yourself

Apart from FSUIPC (the older version) yes. Trying without FSUIPC is impossible at the moment because all my addon planes depend on it.

You don't understand. I'm NOT saying you must configure your sim like that *permanently*. It's JUST A TEST!

So yes, disable everything, including FSUIPC, try with a default airplane, so you can provide a case we could try to replicate.

All I can say is that it crashes with the Addon Manager. And it does not crash without the Addon Manager.

You still cannot say that. You might say it crashes with the Addon Manager and lots of other stuff. Until you can replicate a crash with ONLY the Addon Manager, you cannot be sure of the Addon Manager being the cause.

I'd never say that, experience in customer support shows that developers (and beta testers) can miss issues though. No program is perfect, regardless how much effort went into it and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

Which is why, I asked for your help, in providing a test case that we can replicate. Being able to replicate it, it's the only way to hope for a fix, assuming a fix is needed.

Keep in mind the crashes happen enroute in the middle of nowhere, where the VAS usage is about 3.2-3.3GB. So at least during the crashes we can agree that there is plenty of VAS left, can we?

Which is precisely the moment the Addon Manager is not doing ANYTHING. If you are just flying over some place, the only thing the Addon Manager does, is to check your position and see if you are entering in the area of an FSDT airport. That's the only thing it does, when you are flying outside an airport.

[Emi]

I'm afraid there is no default aircraft in P3Dv3 that has a range long enough to replicate my crashes.
I'd need something with a range of about 5000NM. Since they took out the default 747 from FSX there is no such aircraft to do this kind of check. In fact there is no airliner at all.

Would you have a suggestion for one that works?

[Emi]

Alright, I did a LOT more flights now.
25 flights and about 100 hours without issues, then I reinstalled GSX and it started crashing again.

Steps for you to reproduce: Install: Prepar3Dv3, GSX, PMDG's Queen of the Skies II.

Under these conditions I can, reliably, reproduce the crash.

VAS usage when the crash happened: 2.7GB.
And here's the OFP of the flight in which the crash occured:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/njkegaaqry3klme/ICNFRA.pdf?dl=0

Here's the latest crashlog:

Problemsignatur
Problemereignisame:   APPCRASH
Anwendungsname:   Prepar3D.exe
Anwendungsversion:   3.3.5.17625
Anwendungszeitstempel:   5758bb31
Fehlermodulname:   StackHash_ae77
Fehlermodulversion:   10.0.14393.479
Fehlermodulzeitstempel:   58256ca0
Ausnahmecode:   c0000374
Ausnahmeoffset:   PCH_B3_FROM_ntdll+0x0006EB8C
Betriebsystemversion:   10.0.14393.2.0.0.256.48
Gebietsschema-ID:   1031
Zusatzinformation 1:   ae77
Zusatzinformation 2:   ae77539f15c6852208019c600e73c756
Zusatzinformation 3:   0e7d
Zusatzinformation 4:   0e7d18310c1b982de385a59184b5c8c6

[virtuali]

Steps for you to reproduce: Install: Prepar3Dv3, GSX, PMDG's Queen of the Skies II.

Are you saying that it would be enough to "install" ONLY these 3 Addons, and remove EVERYTHING ELSE, and it will crash immediately, without doing anything ?

I'm asking, because that's what your reproduction steps seems to indicate. And of course, I already tell you it doesn't happen, because I already have all of them installed, and they work normally.

Problemsignatur
Problemereignisame:   APPCRASH
Anwendungsname:   Prepar3D.exe
Anwendungsversion:   3.3.5.17625
Anwendungszeitstempel:   5758bb31
Fehlermodulname:   StackHash_ae77
Fehlermodulversion:   10.0.14393.479
Fehlermodulzeitstempel:   58256ca0
Ausnahmecode:   c0000374
Ausnahmeoffset:   PCH_B3_FROM_ntdll+0x0006EB8C
Betriebsystemversion:   10.0.14393.2.0.0.256.48
Gebietsschema-ID:   1031
Zusatzinformation 1:   ae77
Zusatzinformation 2:   ae77539f15c6852208019c600e73c756
Zusatzinformation 3:   0e7d
Zusatzinformation 4:   0e7d18310c1b982de385a59184b5c8c6

I'm sorry, but nothing in that log shows the problem is caused by GSX. And you don't say if you did what I asked to do, which is DISABLE everything *except* the Addon Manager.

And, it would be best if you used the current P3D version (3.4.22.19868 Hotfix 3), because I would have an hard time even trying to reproduce something on a non-current version of the sim.

[ColoniaAir]

Same Problems here (with the newest P3D Version)

My story:

During longhaul flights with the PMDG 777 at 3-6 hours flighttime I got a CTD (over Greenland or Canada), Error log shows ntdll.dll, this started some months ago. So I format my hd and reinstalled P3D.

With a clean P3D only with the 747 v3 and the 777 from PMDG there were 21 flights without an problem. After installing Addon Manager, my FSDT Addons (almost all Airports and GSX), problem was there again.

This was the time I found in some forums that this problem could be from couatl. So I formated again and rebuild P3D without FSDT Addons and had no problems with 17 flights. But after some weeks it was boring, longhaul flights to the US with default airports and I tried it again with FSDT Addons and the error was back again.

It's totally frustrating! I hope there would be a fix soon. I am willing to help

[virtuali]

This was the time I found in some forums that this problem could be from couatl.

It's not possible that what you read in "some forums" is true, since Couatl, being an external .EXE, CANNOT crash the sim, period.

It's POSSIBLE that a problem in your sim installation can cause a crash with the Addon Manager instead, without this being an "Addon Manager" fault.

We discovered a potential weakness in it which, again, it's NOT the "Addon Manager fault's" but, sorry to say, it relates to some files in the sim which were replaced, so the sim has a version mismatching, and the Addon Manager requires to know exactly the precise version and no P3D file must be altered from the original installation, otherwise a couple of memory locations that needs to be accessed (to get data not available with Simconnect), will not be in the proper place anymore.

First, is there a reason why you are not using the current P3D V3, which is 3.4.22 ?