Crashes at Ohare **SOLVED**

[cw5301]

Just installed latest version of KORD today into FSX Steam. It crashes the sim whenever I get close to Chicago or try to start at KORD. When I try to start there, it gets to "9% Terrain" and locks up.

I do not have any other terrain mesh in that area.

Any ideas?

[virtuali]

A crash while loading that happens so early cannot be caused by the KORD airport, it's surely another mesh you have in the area, or a corrupted/missing file for an AI airplane that appears only there (because of its schedule), so you believe it has something to do with the airport, because it seems it only happens there.

Our sceneries don't load in the same way of a regular scenery: they load most of their objects *after* the loading is finished, because 90% of the scenery is not even made with .BGLs, that's why it's very likely a crash when the loading bar is still at 9% is not caused by the airport, because at that stage, the sim is still loading the surrounding scenery, like mesh, vector data, etc.

[cw5301]

So how can I identify what could be causing it and fix it?

If I disable the Ohare-X scenery, it doesn't crash, I just get the standard FSX Chicago scene. Consequently, saying "it isn't our fault", when it only happens in the location where your scenery is installed, and only when your scenery is enabled, is kind of puzzling.

It would seem there is something else not compatible with your scenery loading earlier, that somehow knows Ohare-X is installed. But there are no other add-ons within hundreds of miles of that location. If it could be an AI aircraft, how do I fix that? Turn off all AI? I think I'd rather have AI aircraft than this one scenery.

[virtuali]

Consequently, saying "it isn't our fault", when it only happens in the location where your scenery is installed, and only when your scenery is enabled, is kind of puzzling.

I know that seems to be logical but, as I've said in my previous post, it might be an AI that is only called when FSDT O'Hare is installed, because we have so many more parkings compared to the default AFCAD, so more and different AIs (because of the parking codes) will be created and, if even one of them has a missing/corrupted file, you will see a crash that will only happens if FSDT O'Hare is installed, that goes away when it's uninstalled.

Another example: the FSDT O'Hare comes with an underlying landclass and vector scenery that slightly changes the default scenery around it. Which means it will recall some *different* DEFAULT textures. If even one of your default textures has been corrupted/missing, you will see a crash that will only happens if FSDT O'Hare is installed, that goes away when it's uninstalled.

An user here reported a crash:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,12519.0.html

But it turned out to be it was caused by other two addons products (UTX and GTX) and reinstalling them fixed it.

I'm basing this reply based on the following facts:

- You said you don't have any other mesh in the area ( a crash so early is usually a mesh, so I would have replied to check your mesh sceneries, if you haven't said so )

- Nobody else has reported it

This leaves us only with a problem with an AI, or a problem with a default file/texture on your system. Don't you think that, if it was a problem of the scenery, someone else would have reported it by now, considering it has been last updated in 2011 ?

If it could be an AI aircraft, how do I fix that? Turn off all AI? I think I'd rather have AI aircraft than this one scenery?

Checking with AI at 0% would be a way to test if this in fact the problem. So, first try that, and report back.

[cw5301]

OK... I tried all of the above.

I have UTX/GEX for Tropical Americas and the Caribbean (TAC). I disabled both UTX and GEX, both in the GEX control panel and in add-on scenery, it did not affect the crash at all.

I disabled Ohare-X but did not uninstall it. That allowed me to start at Ohare and take off, but the sim crashes when the aircraft is abeam the terminal.

I set AI to 0%. That did not affect the behavior at all.

I disabled all the meshes I could identify in my add-on scenery, all of which are hundreds to thousands of miles away. This did not affect the behavior at all.

I set all the display sliders all the way to the left, so that Ohare just looks like a green field. (With AI also at zero). Same behavior as before - with Ohare-X enabled, sim crashes before starting, with Ohare-x disabled, sim crashes/locks up when abeam the terminal (from Runway 14L).

Also, I am not the only person to report this. There are several other people who appear to have had this problem, with or without FSDT installed. That would suggest there is a problem with the default FSX scenery in the area. But I did not have the problem until I installed FSDT Ohare-X. I had flown into Ohare and Midway a few times before with no crashes.

Also all tests were done with the FSX default C172.

Next step will be to fully uninstall FSDT and see if the problem still exists.

[cw5301]

Fully uninstalled FSDT Ohare-X and still have the same behavior - FSX locks up with aircraft is abeam the terminal.

This suggests the problem is now in the default scenery in FSX... although I did not have the crashes at ORD before installing Ohare-X the first time.

[virtuali]

Fully uninstalled FSDT Ohare-X and still have the same behavior - FSX locks up with aircraft is abeam the terminal.

Which clearly proves the problem never was with FSDT O'Hare and, as I suspected as one of the possible causes, it likely a problem with a file from the FSX default scenery.

This suggests the problem is now in the default scenery in FSX...

This is for sure.

although I did not have the crashes at ORD before installing Ohare-X the first time.

Our installer doesn't change any of the FSX default sceneries and if you uninstall it, it's as if it was never there, so this cannot be the cause.

Instead, UTX/GEX DO make changes to some of the default sceneries and in fact, if you read the post I've linked in the other thread reporting a problem at O'Hare, the user also had those products, and he said the issue was fixed by uninstalling them.

[cw5301]

1. My copy of FSX did not crash at Ohare before I installed FSDT OHare-X
2. After installing FSDT, the sim crashes at KORD _every time_.
3. Uninstalling GEX/UTX Tropical America and the Caribbean did not fix the problem.
4. Uninstalling FSDT OHare-X did not fix the problem.
5. There are no other addon scenery files in my system for anywhere within 500 miles of Chicago.
6. I paid you $33 for scenery that not only never worked at all, it apparently somehow made the entire Chicago area unusable in FSX.

I want a refund. I have enough experience with FSX add-on scenery vendors to know, however, that you probably will not stand by your product, blaming anything and everything but your product for the failure. Probably I'll file a complaint with PayPal.

[virtuali]

1. My copy of FSX did not crash at Ohare before I installed FSDT OHare-X

It now crashes after you uninstalled it, clearly proving the problem doesn't have anything to do with it.

2. After installing FSDT, the sim crashes at KORD _every time_.

You only noticed it now.

3. Uninstalling GEX/UTX Tropical America and the Caribbean did not fix the problem.

You cannot be sure that uninstalling these products would restore EVERY FSX file to default.

4. Uninstalling FSDT OHare-X did not fix the problem.

Of course it doesn't: the problem wasn't caused by it to begin with !

5. There are no other addon scenery files in my system for anywhere within 500 miles of Chicago.

You installed 3rd party addon products that changes default TEXTURE and LANDCLASS files so, even if the sceneries don't seem to be "related", you cannot possibly know if ALL your default FSX files are correct.

6. I paid you $33 for scenery that not only never worked at all, it apparently somehow made the entire Chicago area unusable in FSX.

Wrong. There isn't any proof the problem was ever caused by it. In fact, by your own report the crash happens even after UNINSTALLING IT, clearly proves the opposite.

πquote]I want a refund. I have enough experience with FSX add-on scenery vendors to know, however, that you probably will not stand by your product, blaming anything and everything but your product for the failure. Probably I'll file a complaint with PayPal. [/quote]

You can surely can file a preposterous refund complain you don't have any right to, because:

1) the problem is NOT caused by FSDT O'Hare

AND

2) FSDT O'Hare is available in TRIAL version, and its license agreement clearly says that, because of a Trial version, no refunds are possible.

[cw5301]

This is dreadfully predictable. I have had several other FSX add-on scenery problems where installing the scenery caused a wide range of problems, often unrelated to the area where the scenery is located. In every case, the developer says "it's someone else's product that wasn't causing any problems until you installed our product that is to blame".

I most certainly do know that I was able to fly to KORD before I installed your scenery and now I am not. I am also not the only person to have this problem, as a quick check of Google will reveal.

Because this is payware with a complex license scheme (couatl and add-on manager, which, knowing what I know now, would never agree to again), I have no way of knowing if your software properly uninstalled or what files were changed and not fixed when it was uninstalled. I do know that my copy of FSX does not work the same since installing then uninstalling your product. I also know that GEX/UTX for the Caribbean (or any other add-on I had before FSDT) did not prevent me from flying to KORD before I installed your product, despite your arbitrary claims.

But for $33 you'd rather establish a reputation as someone who does not stand behind their products (which I found you had already earned before this episode). This is your forum, I assume you can and will delete all my comments so future potential customers will not learn the dangers of doing business with you from this site, at least.

This is not the only FSX related forum, however, where these things are discussed and I can assure you that not standing behind your product will cost you more in lost business than the $33 you got from me.

[virtuali]

I most certainly do know that I was able to fly to KORD before I installed your scenery and now I am not. I am also not the only person to have this problem, as a quick check of Google will reveal.

I'm sorry, but I already referred to the ONLY reports we had here, were of another user was also convinced (as you are) it was a problem with O'Hare, but it turned out to be a problem with another product.

If the problem was the scenery in itself, someone else should have reported here, since (as I've said) O'Hare last update happened 5 years ago, I cannot possibly think that everybody is having problems and purposely decided to NOT report them here, and discuss about them elsewhere...

Because this is payware with a complex license scheme (couatl and add-on manager, which, knowing what I know now, would never agree to again)

Because of this "complex license scheme", you can TRY the scenery and see if it works (it obviously does) BEFORE purchasing it. So, it's exactly the opposite of your claims about the "dangers" of it. There's no danger involving in purchasing an FSDT product. Do all your other installed addons, one of which is causing the problem, offered you a Trial version ?

I have no way of knowing if your software properly uninstalled or what files were changed and not fixed when it was uninstalled

I already told you: NO DEFAULT FILES are "changed" by the O'Hare scenery installer, and a normal Uninstall will remove every file related to the O'Hare scenery itself.

In addition to that, when you Uninstall, and reply YES to the questions "Do you want to remove the Addon Manager" and "Do you remove the Couatl engine", which are made at the end, even the software modules will be removed, so they won't load with FSX anymore.

Have you tried doing that ? If you removed the software modules, then the question it's closed: the problem is caused by something else, so it was already there.