CArrier Landings

[burner12]

Does anybody know the approach sped at what distance along with altitude to approach once you turn on the 90?  I can trap aboard but the meatball is always red which means I 'm always low. I have only gotten a 3 or 4 wire about 3 times since I played the game. I downloaded that TOP GUN Simulations with Dale Snort Snodgrass as the LSO, but still I get the red ball does anyone know what speed and altitude to approach her?

[jimi08]

It's all about reading the instruments all the way down.  As a rough reference to Dale's carrier mission, cross the destroyer behind the carrier at about 550-600 ft and lined up on the final approach course.  The ball should give you an "on slope" indication at that point.  Your goal keep the meatball aligned with the datum light. It should look somethig like this:
 
----0----   

Your speed is going to vary with aircraft weight(fuel).  Use your AOA indexer to the left of your HUD to assure you are at the correct speed for your approach.  You are looking to maintain the yellow circle (amber donut) all the way down to touchdown.  If you see the green arrow, then you need to increase your speed (or lower your AOA).  If you see a red arrow, then you need decrease your speed (or increase or AOA).  Be aware though that once you adjust your speed or AOA, you are going to need to re-establish your descent rate to maintain the correct glideslope or else you will start getting "too high" or "too low" indications on the meatball.

If you maintain the correct line-up, glideslope, and speed, you should do fine.  The important thing (and also the hard thing...) is to maintain these three things until touchdown.  With that being said, DO NOT FLARE! once you get over the deck, just hold the aircraft's posture until it whacks the deck.  Consider it more of a "controlled crash" than a landing.  Hope this helps and good luck!

[burner12]

maybe this is juts my approach, But has anybody noticed that when you turn at the 90 the ball always says you're low turning red. And then it goes back to yellow depending on your speed and altitude( I know it's supposed to do that) but whenever I com in with the ball being yellow saying I'm just a tad low I always miss the wires but when it's red I always touchdown.  Maybe it's just my speed and alt at which i come in. But when ever I try keeping the ball yellow I wave off or bolter?

[jimi08]

In your particular case, it sounds like you are flying through the glide slope.  The illustration should help you visualize whats going on.

Because of your shallow approach angle, a red light will get you on the deck, but you will probably either hit the back of the ship (ramp strike) or touchdown on the ship early, usually resulting in a 1 wire instead of the prefered 3 wire.  Hope this helps

-Jimi

[burner12]

Thanks jimi, I think you cleared up the problem I have been having. Al this time I thought I was making great approaches but now I know the problem and I'm doing even better. Does anybody know to translate the debrief that Capt. Dale Snort Snodgrass gives? I can understand the basics he says " high start, little high in the middle, lined up right start" But is he using a specific point like when he says high in the middle he does mean the approach right? It could be no other thing, but I still can't translate alot of what he says?

[SpazSinbad]

Go here to download a genuine USN LSO PDF (5Mb) Reference Manual (NATOPS) that will explain a lot of detail. There might be more details than you care to know - however it will give you an idea that this is a real challenge to get a good approach perfect.

http://www.vmfa-323.com/DeathRattlers/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=97&func=fileinfo&id=7
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An overview of LSO responsibilities with radio call meanings (1.6Mb PDF) is here:

http://www.lsoschool.org/legacy/files/LSO_NATOPS.pdf
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This next URL below is more for the VSTOL LSO radio calls/ops and it is only a 1Mb PDF:

http://www.robertheffley.com/docs/CV_environ/00-80T-104--LSO%20NATOPS.pdf
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More LSO stuff here:
http://www.lsoschool.org/legacy/files/

[wilycoyote4]

thanks

[SpazSinbad]

There is a 'SUPER Hornet' NATOPS (pilot manual) PDF (35Mb) at:

http://www.vmfa-323.com/DeathRattlers/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=97&func=fileinfo&id=6

Be aware that there will be differences between the Supers and earlier Hornets, however this NATOPS gives a good idea of how things work.
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This next PDF download is a 'bit off topic' but it will show a potential 'deck lander' how to go about it using an A-4 Skyhawk (or any Navy military jet really). I'll have to make a 'deck landing only' PDF available:

http://files.filefront.com/USN+A+4+ONLY+21oct08pdf/;12114872;/fileinfo.html
(USN A-4s and "how to deck land" info in 1GB PDF with embedded video clips explaining it all)

http://hosted.filefront.com/SpazSinbad/ (more PDFs all under 1GB)
with videos here:
http://hosted.filefront.com/SpazSinbad/2116553
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The 'How to Deck Land' PDFs are likely to have a lot of Hornet/Super Hornet 'deck landing' video examples also. Still working on a generic 'DL' PDF. In meantime here is a Super Hornet diagram compilation from their NATOPS:

[burner12]

THANKS !

[SpazSinbad]

burner12: Looked to answer your question about LSO jargon. Not everything is covered everywhere in the PDFs cited. Here is an official explanation of some LSO terminology:

'At the start' (first one-third of glideslope)
'In the middle' (middle one-third of the glideslope)
'In close' (last one-third of glideslope)

[attachment deleted by admin]

[SpazSinbad]

I'll look for original LSO PDF with these symbols/explanations to post the URL sometime:

[burner12]

Does anybody knoiw why Snodgrass doesn't say at 3/4 of a mile if your on the ball? Maybe that's just the mission development?

[burner12]

I don't mean to be misunderstanding but these pdf files display what exactly? They show LSO info but do they tell about the glideslope or what???  I see the acronyms thatnks for that.

[SpazSinbad]

burner12: The PDFs I'm referring you to are for LSOs and for pilot knowledge while my own PDFs are for your general knowledge about 'how to deck land' using the A4G Skyhawk as a base for that knowledge. However all USN jet aircraft use similar techniques (meatball in the mirror, line up and Angle of Attack) to make a successful deck landing.

Sorry I'm not familiar with the Top Gun simulations or what Snodgrass is going to say - I have assumed that the LSO information will help you. IF not then you will need to ask specific questions. I see 'jimi08' has specifically answered one of your questions. My input has really been 'general knowledge'.

[burner12]

I thank you both for the info you have given me!