Author Topic: KFLL Not Installing into P3Dv3  (Read 12078 times)

garrettprs

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KFLL Not Installing into P3Dv3
« on: October 17, 2015, 09:45:52 pm »
Hi. I've read that all of the FSDT installers are compatible with P3Dv3 and will automatically detect the install path upon execution but that doesn't seem to be the case with KFLL (and PHNL). I also have CYVR, KIAH, and KLAX and they all work just fine. Even the standalone addon manager installs properly. After I click on the KFLL installer (I always run as administrator), I see a small text/dialogue box flash up for a split second and then nothing happens. If I had to guess, the text/dialogue box that I'm seeing looks roughly the size of the "Prepar3D Version 2/3.x found here, do you want to install?" prompt. I will create another thread over in the PHNL forum so that anyone else having the same problem with that product will find it there as well...

virtuali

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Re: KFLL Not Installing into P3Dv3
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2015, 01:23:11 pm »
I already replied to you in the thread about PHNL.

garrettprs

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Re: KFLL Not Installing into P3Dv3
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2015, 09:59:02 pm »
Got it figured out: just needed to download the installers again. Even though the version number is the same, apparently P3Dv3 compatibility was added...

Someone over the Flightbeam forum mentioned this and I think it resonates here as well: FSDT needs to add the version number to the product download pages. Even though the version number wouldn't have helped in this case (since it didn't change), I find myself downloading airports to find that the version number has been updated.... but only after having to download hundreds of excess megabytes.

virtuali

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Re: KFLL Not Installing into P3Dv3
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2015, 12:29:18 am »
Someone over the Flightbeam forum mentioned this and I think it resonates here as well: FSDT needs to add the version number to the product download pages.

No, because sometimes we change the version number without doing *significant* changes to the scenery (not a single file of it changes) but, for example, to fix installer bugs or handling of unusual situations so, if we kept a list of installer versions for each scenery, you might be tricked into downloading "hundreds of excess megabytes" for nothing.

In this case, you should have checked the date of the installer or, even better, the date of the digital signature so, if the version you had was dated earlier than the date of when we announced P3D V3 compatibility, you would know FOR SURE that you had to download again.

garrettprs

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Re: KFLL Not Installing into P3Dv3
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2015, 07:43:50 am »
I'm so sorry, Umberto, that it didn't occur to me to check the signature date of the file. How idiotic of me.

So, Umberto: in your eyes, are your customers always so stupid and helpless? Can FSDT never make a mistake or do something in a manner that isn't 100% optimal? I guess you could imply that a company that makes software and whose products are versions beyond 1.0, that fixes and changes have been made. So I know that FSDT isn't infallible. But you wouldn't know it from reading the forums here. Nothing is ever FSDT's fault and you guys have the lock on doing everything perfectly. Your company also has the unfortunate disposition of catering almost exclusively to imbeciles and know-nothings. In fact, many of us have to call Dell customer support just to figure out where our computers' power button is.

I'm guessing you're beyond your late twenties, which is the age range past which I commonly conclude that people are set in their ways and are generally not open to changing their behavior unless something traumatic or extreme occurs. That being the case, I'll likely be pleading in vane that you seriously rethink the way you treat and communicate with customers. Your company's products aren't cheap and many of us have bought multiple (in my case 5, and on the verge of another). You would think the least we could get around here is some--perhaps at least a mild--amount of respect or tongue-biting and not made to feel like we're total idiots for having no way of knowing when a file has been updated (gee whiz, even an email notification would be novel).

And I'm not even advocating for a "the customer is always right" attitude. Experience tells me they're not and, personally, I too have a hard time brown-nosing and pandering to people. But for the love of all that is holy, that doesn't mean the opposite approach of "the customer is always stupid and annoying" is appropriate.

Thanks a ton.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2015, 08:12:31 am by garrettprs »

virtuali

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Re: KFLL Not Installing into P3Dv3
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2015, 11:27:02 am »
I'm so sorry, Umberto, that it didn't occur to me to check the signature date of the file. How idiotic of me.

If it's sarcasm that you are trying to do here, then please stop.

Most users know very well to check "just" the file date (am I wrong here, assuming they might be smarter then they are ? Yes, it's a trick question...), it's not something exotic like the "digital signature file date", and this is USUALLY good enough, and surely since you said yourself you checked the file version, you must have seen the "normal" file date too, because it's on the SAME page as the file version and it's also on the tooltip that Windows displays when you hover with the mouse on a file.

I added the digital signature just for completeness sake, because it's something that cannot be modified in any way, so it's more reliable, while the normal file date might change depending how the file was downloaded, and it's bit easier to be confused on the Properties->Detail tab, because there are 3 dates, "creation", "last modified" and "last access", but you cannot use completeness as an argument to prove that I was asking to do something unusual that nobody is accustomed to do.

Regular file date ("creation" date, of course) will work fine in most of the cases.

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Can FSDT never make a mistake or do something in a manner that isn't 100% optimal? I guess you could imply that a company that makes software and whose products are versions beyond 1.0, that fixes and changes have been made. So I know that FSDT isn't infallible.

Of course NO software can EVER be made bug free.

But you cannot use this argument as a sword, as if:

"anything said from someone in a software company can be challenged, because failproof/foolproof software cannot be made"

It doesn't have anything to do with the fact that, in THIS specific case, it would be wrong to keep changing the version numbers on the installers, because it will result in users downloading the "hundreds of excess megabytes" you cited, for nothing, maybe because the version number has changed only to fix a bug that doesn't happen very often.

For example, we found one bug of the installers, that resulted in an error only in the SLOVAK version Windows! We had to updated ALL the installers, and if we did what you are suggesting here, indicating a new version on the Web page, 99% of the unaffected users around the world would think they might have to redownload everything (several GB of data), unless we would add an explanation saying "you don't need to download this, if you don't use the Slovak version of Windows".

And of course, doing this would result in an UNREADABLE and CONFUSING Web page, very quickly, with descriptions to new versions such as:

- Don't download this, if you haven't manually removed FSX after installing FSX:SE, because the fix in this version is the installer no longer being confused by this. The scenery files are exactly the same.

- Don't download this, if you think that selecting the sim you want to install into by clicking an icon instead of answering a question is too minor of a fix (although it's nicer to see) to justify redownloading. The product's files are exactly the same.

- Don't download this, if you haven't manually removed the <ManualLoad> command line from the default DLL.XML, because the fix in this version is the installer no longer being confused by this. The scenery files are exactly the same.

- Don't download this, if the "Co-existance" registry key on FSX:SE hasn't been lost in your system, because the in this version is the installer no longer being confused by the lack of this key. Don't download this if you don't use FSX:SE anyway. The scenery files are exactly the same.

Because THESE are the kind of changes we made in, let's say, the last two weeks.

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But you wouldn't know it from reading the forums here. Nothing is ever FSDT's fault and you guys have the lock on doing everything perfectly

It only APPEARS so to you, because users have the habit to start a post for a problem they have, by ASSUMING the problem "must" be FSDT's fault, titling the thread in a way that it seem like that so, to a cursory reading, without reading the whole thread to the end (nobody usually does, except those needed help), the products have more problems than they really have. But what's usually happens, is the problem is almost exclusively caused by SOMETHING ELSE.

And no, it's not always user's fault and I never implied that. Most of the time, problems are caused either by other product's (antivirus being the N.1 culprit), other FSX addons fault installers, other FSX addons questionable behaviors, like stealing the focus of the main FSX window, or JUST the fact that other addons *exists*, sometimes nobody can do anything about it, because it might simply not possible to have two addons coexists in the same place without causing problems, like 3rd party meshes not properly smoothed out around airports (the default from MS are, for a reason) or multiple addons for the same area used together, which might cause issues and it's "nobody's fault" if they happen.

- Only a very small minority of issues are caused by user's faults. We cannot do much to fix this, other than explaining what the user did wrong, so he won't do the same mistake again in the future.

- Only a very small minority of issues are caused by FSDT''s fault. We DO fix them, even if when they affect only a couple of users, especially those in the installer, and this is clearly proven by the examples I indicated above about WHAT kind of fixes are being added *constantly*, and these were just the last two weeks fixes...

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You would think the least we could get around here is some--perhaps at least a mild--amount of respect or tongue-biting and not made to feel like we're total idiots for having no way of knowing when a file has been updated (gee whiz, even an email notification would be novel).

Even that email WOULD have to include all the details explaining WHY the new download MIGHT NOT apply to you (it usually doesn't, see above...), and that most users would be *annoyed* by receiving a new email every week, which is the average update rate for installers.

But that's not the whole point: it seems that you are forgetting that:

Installers (even older ones) DOWNLOADS lots of stuff when they run:

- the current addon manager files

- the current Couatl engine files (the exe and all support files for it)

- the current GSX code, including all the small code fixes and latest supported airplane database

- the current AFCAD for the scenery

This has been made for the precise reason that, in most of the cases, you don't HAVE to re-download your installer, because it would usually be enough to RUN again the installer you have, to get lots of updates.

In addition to that, there's the Live Update in the sim, so you can ALSO apply some of the latest fixes without having to RUN again the installer and without even have to restart the sim.

The only time you MUST redownload the installer, is when something BIG happens, such as a new sim being released, so you obviously need all new installers to recognize it, but this is not something that happens so often, and WE HAVE announced it, the day BEFORE P3D was released, on our Facebook page, which is followed by more than 5000 users and, the way Facebook works, the announcement has been seen by their friends too, regardless if they are directly following us or not, so I'm sure the announcement saying you must download all the installer again to recognize P3D has reached lots of people. It was reposted on all major sim websites too.

That's why, it would be wrong to constantly notify everybody when an installer is updated: we DO notify, instead, when you REALLY need a new installer.

Ideally, a future version of the Live Update, would get rid of installers altogether: a very small installer will be downloaded, and it will download and update all your FSDT products at once and will keep all of them updated automatically.

But it's not something very easy to do: a programmer did something like this a few years ago, and made a company worth billions today, called Dropbox.