Author Topic: F/A-18 C/D aircraft mod and textures (FSX/P3D)  (Read 214361 times)

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #90 on: May 23, 2015, 07:16:52 am »
Ok, question of the day: That leftward drifting motion is driving me nuts during recoveries. If I disable the Auto-Rudder gauge, will I then need to use the rudder like a regular plane for turns? Even with it, if I call up the AH with a turn-and-bank under it on the left MFD during flight, it shows I should be using the rudders like a normal plane, but I don't, presuming the auto-rudder is keeping the plane's flight coordinated properly and it's just an indicator problem. I thought (I know I know, I need to stop that) that I read in a NATOPS that the FA-18 is a "Feet-On-the-Floor" type of aircraft to fly, like the F-14, meaning under most circumstances, while the feet should stay ON the rudder pedals, during most flight regimes they are not required for coordinated flight. Has to do with the twin, outboard-canted tails. I didn't delve too deeply into the engineering, but if you want I can try.
That's it, for once :) Talk again soon!
Pat☺

hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #91 on: May 23, 2015, 10:44:53 am »
Upgrade: 1.9.0

Changelog:
- FS/CS versions: minor texture corrections throughout the pack
- NH C/D versions: folder structure change to allow specific configuration of each model version
- Flaps lift and drag values adjusted
- Anti-skid brakes reintroduced, allowing for a more realistic visual breaking experience
- Empty weight cg moved slightly forward to counter pitch up at touchdown
- Roll behaviour tweaked in conjunction with MOIs (thanks to Jimi's valuable input on the subject)

Happy modding - suggestions and feedback are welcome, as usual.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 07:38:28 pm by hd764jvgd843 »

jimi08

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #92 on: May 23, 2015, 04:29:44 pm »
Pat,

Yes, you are right.  The Hornet is designed to be a "feet on the floor" aircraft with minimal use of manual rudder.  Exceptions being specific things like executing the Pirouette Maneuver, or if you fly with the Blue Angels (those guys use A LOT of rudder). 

Keep in mind that the autorudder that has been created for this aircraft is a little different from the default autorudder from FSX.  The autorudder system that has been created for this bird involves a two-part system. 

The first, involves trying to replicate the RSRI or Rolling Surface to Rudder Interconnect function as per NATOPS.  It basically tries to induce rudder in the same direction of the roll to offset adverse yaw and to assist in inadvertent departure.

The second involves "nulling out uncommanded yaw rate" as stated in NATOPS.  I have interpreted this as keeping the turns coordinated.  Since using the same "bang-bang" technique that I used on the pitch auto-trim system will not work on the yaw axis (the aircraft wags back and forth like a shark), I had to come up with a basic formula to get the job done.  This is pretty challenging considering the amount of rudder needed for various angles of bank, inverted flight, and the increased amount of rudder authority needed at slower speeds (and vice versa).  This also has to be "blended" to prevent noticeable rudder wags while in flight.

I thought I fixed that on the latest version of the FLT and BA versions.  I still had a problem with uncommanded yaw, but later found out that I was using asymmetric thrust due to a bad calibration of my split throttles.

Justin "Jimi" Hendrix
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FSXBA F/A-18C Hornet Latest Download Link: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,6944.msg117011.html#msg1

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #93 on: May 23, 2015, 07:48:17 pm »
Peter,
Thanks for posting up v1.9.0! I have it an will get into in a few minutes. Looking at it, just a fast glance at the .air and aircraft.cfg files, to make my version changes to the flaps will take some work, but that's most of the fun!
I do have a couple things, real quick: Just glancing at the visual vs the aircraft.cfg for each configuration, you do have the weights of the various weapon configurations 100%, no question. However, on the training config, compared to the BA config, the MER/TERs are on the training config visually vs the BA config, which is correct and proper, but the W&B section doesn't take them into account. IE, both W&B sections are the same, but the visual models are different. I did some research, and have the weight data for the Single Ejector racks (hip positions, centerline tank) and the MER/TER's out on the wing stations. Oh yeah, the empty weight of the centerline isn't in any configuration's W&B. by the way. I can give you the data for the various items if you like or just change all the aircraft.cfg files and post them up in a zip file, if you like, with my flap changes, presuming I ever manage to get them zeroed in, so to speak. They aren't a huge amount of weight, obviously, and may be too small to be significant as far as the flight characteristics of the two models goes, but hey, "as real as it gets!" ;D
Another thing, the Static Compression value in the three Gear lines of the Contact points seems suprisingly small to me. I am far from a professional dev, obviously, I have just never seen a value this low. I believe you have it right, I am just curious about it. I wound up with a 0.196 value, when I set my version up, which isn't far off, but 0.05 seems minute to me. Just wondering, not criticizing in any way! You know how I am...

Jimi,
Thank you very much. Answers my question completely!
Quote
and to assist in inadvertent departure.
I am going to presume you meant "helping to recover from" or "preventing"  in there someplace :D I wouldn't think one would want to induce an inadvertent departure, but hey, I've been wrong before...LOL!
Quote
or if you fly with the Blue Angels (those guys use A LOT of rudder). 
After watching them so often, in three different birds (The F-4 and FA-18C, as well as the short-lived A-4) at El Centro all winter, I can certainly believe you on this! Being stationed at MCAS Yuma for many years (at least it seemed like it, I hated that place...), and having a motorcycle let me do a lot of watching :) I know that everything they do is just regular ACM and formation flight maneuvers every wearer of The Wings of Gold does constantly, only amplified (as it were), but I am far, far, far from good enough to try most of them! I am working but with about 3 hours for flight a day...

Anyway, my gratitude to you both for all your help in all this! I sure appreciate you all taking to time to give me so much assistance! I am learning by leaps and bounds, it seems to me, and it's thanks to all the great folks on this amazing forum.
Pat☺

hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #94 on: May 23, 2015, 09:48:48 pm »
Hi Pat, concerning the weight of the various weapon loadouts/configurations, these are just preliminary values I took from the CS version for A-A and A-G loudouts. Did not have the time to make a proper research, taking into accout weight of the pylons, too. I will do some calculations in excel not to exceed overall weight etc. because FSXBA model versions have different A-A and A-G configurations than the CS version, e.g. more AMRAAMs and GBUs. Have to dig up weight of pylons, Mavs, Zunis, too. I will also have to do some calculations on the parasite drag scalar due do differences in the loadout/configuration.

There is also the issue described by Yves Guillaume, that the sim "Instead of summing up all station_load.n entries individually, MSFS uses the offset of the average location of all payload stations from the CG position. This means that placing one payload of e.g. 1000 lbs 30 feet ahead of the CG and another one of 1000 lbs 30 feet behind CG results in zero MOI contribution in MSFS, because the average location is exactly at the CG. In reality both stations’ moments would sum up."
He describes a workaround: "As a work around, the real world payload MOI values should be incorporated in the empty_weight MOI values. In other words, the MOI values provided by the designer should be those for a typical zero fuel weight instead of empty weight. One remaining problem is that changing payload directly via the MSFS menu will not adjust MOI values correctly."

When I got the loadout/configuration weights right, I will have to incorporate these into the MOIs, taking into consideration some rudimentary reasoning where these masses are located in relation to the overall CG, not to complicate things too much.

So we are not just there yet.
Peter

P.S. But you should already feel a difference between a Clean or Training and an AIM, GBU, Mav, or Zuni version.
At least we got the underlying folder structure ready to incorporate specific loadouts/configurations in the future, and mess with these to our liking.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 10:16:57 pm by hd764jvgd843 »

hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #95 on: May 24, 2015, 01:30:17 am »
Hi Pat, it would be very nice if you could post the weight data for ejector racks, empty centerline tank, weapons, MER/TERs (I do not really know what that is, because I lack the military background. Could be the things I called pylons, which obviously seems to be the wrong word for it) everything you can get you hand on in conjunction with the legacy hornet. If you can put it in an aircaft.cfg together with your flaps settings the better, much appreciated.

Concerning the gear static compression: 0=rigid meaning completely compressed, as I understand it, so from the pics I looked at, the gear seemed almost completely compressed when standing on the ground, so I gave it a 5% room for bumps on the runway. When I raised these values the plane became very soft, and would tip to the side very easily. I thought that to be unrealistic, so I changed it - please let me know if you know differently. An example for such a setting would be the default ones from the CS version, where the overall height seems to be ok, but when you move the plane slowly around on the runway it would ridiculously easy tip to the side and crash. I guess they choose this soft setting to better demonstate the asymmetric wing loudouts that are possible to set up through their loudout menu, and that they have an actual impact on the plane's weight and balance, not just being visual treats.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 08:15:03 pm by hd764jvgd843 »

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #96 on: May 25, 2015, 07:43:30 am »
AHA! I knew there was a reason for those super low values of static_compression! I didn't realize the Hornet was that low on the gear when just sitting. I have watched more that a few land, both on a runway and on the boat, and I know they have a good deal of flex during that process, but I never thought to actually go and SEE what they were at when static. This one's going to take some research for me to ferret out, and untill I do, I'll leave things as-is. You seem to have a working solution to a problem, so I'll leave it. By the by, they normally hit the runway as though it were a carrier deck. Navy pilots get "You ever flare, I'll beat you senseless!" (ok, ok, not that bad) from day one 1 flight training.
The main thing is not just amount of flex, but ratio's also. Most aircraft developers seem to assume a 70-80% static compression. Is this correct for the Hornet? Not a clue. I'd have to measure the oleo's (vertical struts) while the bird was on the deck, and while it was jacked to be certain. I should be able to dig this data up someplace, and once we get those two numbers (Max extension and static compression) the rest falls into line :) I think the Airframes shop maintenance directives will lead me to my goal. We shall see asap!
I have all the weights in a small text file for the various "loadable" (?) items, and I'll just zip it up with the other two files, included in this post, if I do it right. Not very big files but a zip file saves time and space.
So you know, MER/TER is the lazy man's shorthand (ME!) for Multiple Ejector Rack/Triple Ejector Rack. It's normal usage in the military, but you know how fond we always are of acronyms and abbreviations :) I made a false presumption that you were military and would automatically know these abbreviations, so I apologize. Essentially, yes, they are what you call "pylons", and pylons they are, but for specific uses. Namely, getting a piece of ordnance off the airplane without it impacting the aircraft on the way. They use a small pyrotechnic charge to kick the item away from the plane. Pilot pickles, charge goes off, pushes a piston in the ejector rack (Hence the name), which leads to a "foot" on the rack touching the item to get ejected (bomb, missile, etc), thus kicking it away. If you get a chance sometime, watch a video in slow-mo of a plane either dropping unpowered weapons (bombs) or missiles. You will see the weapon leave the rack, and a very short time later a little "foot" (circular disc about 2-3" in diameter with a shaft in the center) about the center of the bomb's attaching area and about 4" long, if that, will be seen retracting back into the rack where the weapon was. Very quickly, so you have to kind of watch for them. IE, they pretty much snap back in, so try for a good slow-mo video. They are also used as part of the Jettison and Emergency Jettison system, thus hopefully removing the items, by force, if necessary, as quickly as possible. The MER/TERs are used on the wings (normally) with SER or Single Ejector Rack normally used on the fuselage (like the two hip stations) hardpoints.
 Fuel tanks are normally mounted on SER's, wing or fuselage, for weight considerations, but the MER/TERs generally have the wiring and plumbing necessary for fuel tank mounting, so the SER or MER/TER can be utilized. Conformal stations, like for the AIM-54's on a F-14, or the Sparrow missiles on the F-4, just have the hardware of a SER built into the fuselage.

Ok, ok, I am off, but hopefully I do this right and the zip file is attached.
Pat☺

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #97 on: May 25, 2015, 09:13:17 pm »
Quote
The exact length and weight of the Zuni depends on the warhead, but typical values are 2.79 m (110 in) and 48.5 kg (107 lb), respectively

I located the above at http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/5in-rockets.html. There is a chart near the bottom for the different warhead/rocket combinations, listing weight & length.

Quote
2.75 INCH ROCKET DIAMETER (IN) LENGTH (IN) WEIGHT (LB)
LAU-61C/A Rocket
Launcher
16.0 59.8 155
LAU-68D/A Rocket
Launcher
10.1 59.8 85
5.0 INCH ROCKET DIAMETER (IN) LENGTH (IN) WEIGHT (LB)
LAU-10C/A Rocket
Launcher
13.9 94.92 113
LAU-10D/A Rocket
Launcher
14.0 94.92 142

Is from a PDF titled ntsp-Rocket.pdf, page I-8.

I don't believe I included any of the above in my weight listing, so here it all is now. Both launchers (2.75 in. and 5 in) fit on the usual SER/MER/TER pylons.

I am still looking for a good reference for the gear struts max extension and compression in the static state, but I will keep at it hard :)
Pat

hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #98 on: May 25, 2015, 10:34:49 pm »
Thanks for your help Pat with the weapons and pylons weight data, much appreciated, keep them coming. I will try to setup some calculations for the various loadouts/configurations the next days and post them when I am finished, so you all may check them for errors or omissions.

Yesterday, I also had a quick glance at he links you posted concerning the fsx gear suspension setup. A lot of helpful information there. I will take that into consideration the next time I redo the gear settings.

Peter

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #99 on: May 26, 2015, 07:43:19 am »
Just so you know, all this time I've had the data we needed for weight/DI calculations on my friggen HD, and had forgotten I had it! I have a copy of the FA-18E/F (should be at least really close for the C model) NATOPS Chapter XI, Flight Characteristics (F18-EF-200.pdf), not to mention the rest of the NATOPS in a separate PDF (F18-ABCD-000.pdf and/or F18-EF-000.pdf) all of which I found on-line by punching in the pub number. The PDF file name IS the pub number, by the way. I hope that helps a little, The -200 has the weight/DI numbers for every possible armament, fuel tank, and mounting pylon (MER/TER). They even have "Sample" problems for calculating total weight/DI numbers for several possible combinations. It is a wealth of data, not just for the pilots, but I believe for helping with the W&B section of the aircraft.cfg. There's way too much data for me to put up on the forum here as quoted areas, unless you want me to zip up the whole PDF and post it here...
You mentioned that the software averages the longitudinal weight offsets for the MOI computations. Does it also average the latitudinal weight offsets? I am thinking of Lateral Assymetry calculations. For example, you have a 2000 lb bomb on the left inboard, and a pair of Maverics on the right inboard, just to use a rediculous example. Will it realize the Lateral Asymetery, or will it just average the two out for the Roll MOI calculations? If so, you will need to make sure all the loadouts (weight and DI's anyway) are symmetrical, whatever the visual model may show, or the plane will have a constant roll, which I have seen due to a misplaced decimal point in Pilot weight in a C-182 (AHEM!).
As to the rest, I am just glad I could help out in at least one or two small areas of this amazing project you all have created. It's kinda of an ego boost, to be honest. I know you have much broader range of knowledge on this subject (the FA-18C) than I do, but still, to be able to help out a little is a great feeling!
Anyway, looking forward to the next update, and working the flaps/landing gear systems at the same time on the new one (v1.9.0) :) Again, I will post them up when I am happy with them. Thanks for all the information and support.
Pat☺

SpazSinbad

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #100 on: May 26, 2015, 10:09:18 pm »
Hornet F/A-18 A/B/C/D NATOPS dated 2007 is available here (along with other (Super) Hornet related NATOPS material):

F-18C NATOPS: http://info.publicintelligence.net/F18-ABCD-000.pdf (17Mb)

PAGE of stuff: http://publicintelligence.net/u-s-navy-f-18-natops-flight-manuals/

NATOPS FLIGHT MANUAL PERFORMANCE DATA NAVY MODEL F/A-18E/F 165533 AND UP AIRCRAFT:

https://info.publicintelligence.net/F18-EF-200.pdf (29Mb)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 10:13:31 pm by SpazSinbad »
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hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #101 on: May 26, 2015, 11:50:18 pm »
Thanks for the links SpazSinbad, much appreciated.

Here are the weight specifications for the various loadouts, to the best of my knowledge. I had to do some approximations. Let me know what you think.

Update:
- Found that SUU-62 are centerline weapons pylon and SUU-63 are wing weapons pylon for legacy hornet. Could not find any weight data so I took those of the FA-18E pylons (SUU-78/79) instead.
- Countermeasure system seems to be AN/ALE-47. I found some weight data on wikipedia, but was unable to verify how many dispensers are available. This website (http://iron-eagles.tripod.com/wb_ac_files/f18.htm) speaks of six additional dispensers for upgraded spanish versions of FA-18As.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 09:46:26 pm by hd764jvgd843 »

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #102 on: May 27, 2015, 08:46:17 pm »
All I could find was the data for the BRU-32, which I believe is equivalent, or at least very similar to the SUU-62A, I think. It weighs 76 lbs. according to the information on this site: http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-detail-rack-bomb.htm.

I will review the spreadsheet (picture) you provided. At a quick glance, it looked pretty accurate. I will dig up what I can on any questions, and let you know, but it looks very good and quite comprehensive! Nice job indeed. I realize that what we have is for the E model FA-18's, but I think a lot of the weights and DI's should be pretty close, knowing the Navy's conservatism as far as weapons systems goes. And the racks are mostly improved versions of the older SUU versions, which mostly change the electronics and release mechanizems,, but the over all weights and dimensions tend to remain fairly constant.

Hope that helps a little
Pat☺
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 08:53:03 pm by PhantomTweak »

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #103 on: May 30, 2015, 08:46:36 pm »
Well, here's what I have so far. I included a text file to indicate the changes I've made and a short explanation of why. I hope this is of some use to you :D
Pat☺

hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #104 on: May 30, 2015, 11:17:49 pm »
Thanks for your effort, Pat. Much appreciated! I will incorporate your suggestions into the next release.