Author Topic: F/A-18 C/D aircraft mod and textures (FSX/P3D)  (Read 212574 times)

Orion

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #75 on: May 18, 2015, 09:29:19 pm »
Simply referencing/aliasing different models (as Orion suggested) could be a viable approach - even one I could realize. I cannot say why but I do not like the idea, yet, to create an aircraft folder for each model file, although textures could be referenced for all C/D versions separately, not to blow up required space. Currently I consider a gauge to switch between models being the more elegant solution, probably because it is out of my reach - like the grass is always greener on the other side of the river. If you think from your point of view that I am barking up the wrong tree here, please tell me so - awaiting your opinions on the subject.

I actually think creating separate aircraft folders is the more elegant solution.  While I do concede that it is less streamlined to have multiple folders, and that having all variations shown in the aircraft selection dialog potentially makes selecting things more cumbersome, creating a gauge is not only unnecessarily complex, but technically not even feasible given the circumstances.  SimConnect doesn't provide a way to switch the user's aircraft, let alone the visual model.

If you were only aiming to change the flight dynamics, while you could write to the aircraft.cfg to place new values and potentially (you may run into issues of the file being in use) replace the AIR file (side note: this would necessitate the use of a C/C++ gauge or SimConnect client, since you don't have control over the file system in FSX's XML scripting language), you'll need to reload the user aircraft, which, as you know, eventually causes the sim to go bonkers after too many reloads.

With additional aircraft folders, you wouldn't even need to place models or AIR files in a different folder.  Take a look at the TBM_Avenger_Ghost in SimObjects\Misc.

What I meant was getting the underlying physics right before introducing PIDs. To put it into a drastic picture: Not trying to tweak a Chessna via PIDs to fly like a Hornet. Sorry for not expressing myself right, but as I am not a native speaker, I have sometimes difficulties communicating what I mean.
Wait, I can't blame the lack of my linguistic proficiency here - its probably just me. ;)

Ah, I see what you mean.  I agree that it's a good idea, but I'm not sure how you can judge the underlying physics.  I assume almost all the data available with regards to the Hornet's flight characteristics have been recorded with the digital fly-by-wire functional and in use.  Without non-standard data, it sounds like you'd be trying to match the simulated aircraft without fly-by-wire to data points from the real aircraft with fly-by-wire.

hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #76 on: May 18, 2015, 10:21:18 pm »
Thanks for the update and your valuable feedback, Orion.

So, separate airplane folders it will be. I will get to it the next days, and hopefully be finished before the weekend to release a new version upgrade.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 10:32:37 pm by hd764jvgd843 »

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #77 on: May 19, 2015, 07:57:41 am »
Ok, I just made sure I was using Jimi's latest Prototype. The one he just recently posted, was it just yesterday? Anyway, I looked, and it's definately different from the v1.55 I found, so out with the old, as they say. well, the PID entry for the Rudder is, anyhow. It looks a lot more reasonable, as far as the settings for the PID go. And I agree with Peter, the Prototype I first found, and the one you linked so kindly for us, Orion, just doesn't fly at all right. The "notching" during even moderate AOA maneuvering is horrible, I am certain it's caused by the PID settings. Not trying to pass blame anyplace, far far from it. I'm just letting you know what I saw with it, and why I went with the NH v1.8.0.
I've gotten so far into it, to date, however, I'll stick to it until a better something comes along. I just don't want to start all over from 0, as it were. I realize you all are doing the best you can at the best rate possible, as am I. I am never ever in a hurry any more, believe me. My feet hurt too much. As I  will, please take all the time you need.
Peter, I know you mentioned integrating the PID controllers into the v1.8.0, thus making it the v1.8.1. Are you still planning this? Or just breaking the miscilaneous load-outs into multiple folders? Me, I just made the "clean", or training setu my default choice, by changing the Station_Load.x= lines to match what I see in the picture for that one. I found the weights for the TER/MER racks on the Outboard and Inboard wing stations, and the Single racks in the hip stations, and the weight of the centerline tank, and I use all those. It's so much easier to me than changing them all every time I load the plane up, or reload it. I also changed the parasitic drag to the setting you specified for it (1.06). All this so I can test easily :) I'm lazy, what can I say?
I also discovered a small issue with the gear. As you recall, I mentioned the mains were showing axle deep in the runway or Deck, but I thought I could fix it. I can, but it took me a while to figure out that I have to leave the static_height in the Contact Points alone, or the launchbar gets messed up. And if I try to change it's positions with a [launch_Assistance] section, it stays down all the time and so does the gear. But the nose gear is pretty close to right, and as long as I just change hte main's vertical positions very slightly I can get it right too. IE not IN the runway, but ON it. It's a small victory, but it's mine :)
Once I get totally staisfied I have everything exactly right, I'll zip up the aircraft.cfg and .air files and post there for you. I sure appreciate your being willing to even look at my efforts, considering the august company I am in around you all.
Talk to you all very soon again!
Pat☺

hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #78 on: May 19, 2015, 02:02:33 pm »
Hi Pat, for now I am going to stick with the conventional version (without PIDs) and will try to improve it, in general terms. Once that is done it intend to put my focus more and more on the PIDs.
The next step will be to establish separate airplane folders for each model version, so it becomes possible to individually tweak/setup each model, considering stations loadout, drag, etc.
When Jimi decides to release a FSXBA version with PIDs integrated, he considers good enough for a general release, I will follow that of course. In the past, I did some minor tests with the prototype version trying to adjust PIDs to influence pitching behaviour, but my results were unsatisfactory and showed me that it will take some time to learn and properly understand how to achieve desired results.

Concerning the gear issue, that is a compromise: I was able to adjust satisfactory gear settings that would resemble in height and compression ratio the real airplane, based on technical drawings. This worked fine for the FS and CS models. When trying to adapt these values to the NH version too, I ran into some issues. The visual model of the FSXBA does not seem to be able to vertically compress and  'bend the knees' of the main gear visually as far as it is neccecary to lower the CPs accordingly. The visual result is that all tires would be roughly 2/3 sunk in the ground. This is just a visual glitch, but I does not look nice, so I decided for the FSXBA models to raise the the CPs for the front and main gear a bit, without changing the general pitch. The result, as it is now, will show the main gear tires sunken a tad in the ground.
Side view photo of a FA-18D VMFAT-101. You can see gear compression and height very well: http://atvfotografie.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/F18-VMFAT-101.jpg

Concerning the tailhook length, it seems that the one of the default FSXBA is too long (more like an FA-18E), but as the model and CPs are standing too high above the ground, it is the only way to catch the cables.
Based on the technical drawings, and with the help of good old Mr. Pythagoras, the legacy hornet should have a tailhook length about 5.8 feet, but I have not been able to verify that.

Looking forward to see your changes. I did some preliminary calculations myself for the flaps lift and drag values I currently work with and I am interested to see how they will differ from yours that are probably closer to reality. You can also see the calcs for the MOIs I did in relation to the emty weight.
Some infos on flap lift and drag I based my reasoning upon:
http://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/5018/why-and-when-to-use-flaps

An other thing I recenty found out is that in order to determine the pitch behaviour of a wing, the aerodynamic wing sweep is of importance and not the ones of the leading edge (26.7 deg.) or at the quater chord (20.0 deg.). I roughly estimated (visually derived) that for the legacy hornet being around 13 deg. and voila pitching sensitivity is increased.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 03:03:10 pm by hd764jvgd843 »

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #79 on: May 19, 2015, 08:30:11 pm »
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Concerning the tailhook length, it seems that the one of the default FSXBA is too long
Actually, I hadn't looked too hard at the tailhook yet, since the NH v1.8.0 I am working with traps just fine. I had some trouble with the launch bar. Apparently it's coded into the model (not a separate entry in the aircraft.cfg file) changing the Static_CG_Height= in the [Contact_Points] too much will prevent it's operation. All the plane does is sit an bounce when I hit SHFT+I, and no blast shield. So I left that alone, although I did play with the static compression and compression ratio of the mains a little. I didn't change their vertical position yet, to try and get the mains up out of the ground. I'll let you know what I can find. I did read an excellent article by Milton Shupe (smart son-uv-a-gun!) on setting those three settings in the gear's contact points, and am trying to apply his knowledge here.
Quote
An other thing I recenty found out is that in order to determine the pitch behaviour of a wing, the aerodynamic wing sweep is of importance and not the ones of the leading edge (26.7 deg.) or at the quater chord (20.0 deg.). I roughly estimated (visually derived) that for the legacy hornet being around 13 deg. and voila pitching sensitivity is increased.
Should I change the aircraft.cfg to reflect your new value in wingsweep? Just wondering. If I do, I'll probably have to start in on the flaps again :D At least the Pitch portion of them.  Not a problem, just curious. By the by, looking at you second JPG, you and I have come up with just the same Lift, Drag, and Pitch settings for the flaps. Funny how that works :) We must be on to something here!
Anyway, that's where I am to date. I will absolutely keep you advised (as the cops are so fond of saying) of how things are going! Oh! Did I mention I was with VMFAT-101 when they were in F-4N's in Yuma? They sure have come a long way, both physically (well a good 3-4 hour drive, anyway), and in aircraft advancement. Thanks for the picture of the FA-18 they are in now. It's nice to see what they are up to these days. Is that a D or F model? I am not that great at the physical differences...
Pat☺

hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #80 on: May 19, 2015, 11:45:40 pm »
Could you please link or post the artice by Milton Shupe you are referring to, I'd be interested to get my hands on every possible useful information concerning these gear settings.

The pic for VMFAT-101 I posted is showing the Hornet D version model. I used this one as a template for the textures.

Concerning the changed wingsweep value, you can give it a try. For now I am leaving it at 13 deg. until I find some better intel on it or contradicting opinions.

Thanks for your feedback on the flaps lift and drag values, good to know I am on the right direction here,

Peter
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 12:18:53 am by hd764jvgd843 »

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #81 on: May 20, 2015, 08:35:10 pm »
It's in a thread on SOH, http://sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?14301-Contact-Points-Tutorial, bottom of the page. Well, from about 1/2 way down all the way to the bottom :) He spelled it out in a way even I could understand it, but not in an insultingly simple way, if that makes sense. I found it very informative indeed! I saved it off as a text file, to go with the pictures he put up for each step. Very helpful indeed.

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Concerning the changed wingsweep value, you can give it a try. For now I am leaving it at 13 deg. until I find some better intel on it or contradicting opinions.
Then try it I shall. If I like it, I'll keep it and redo the flaps for it, if necessary.

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Thanks for your feedback on the flaps lift and drag values, good to know I am on the right direction here,
I was glad to see it too! It kind of confirmed the way I was going about it was at least close to correct :)

It's going to be a day or so before I can get back to this again. Today, I take my bird to the vet to get her beak ground down. It's "scheduled maintenance" so to speak. I have to get her done every month or so. Town is a ways away, and a stressful bit of a day for me, so after I get home, it's rest & recuperate time. So, I'll be back into it asap! I should be within about 4 or 5 days worth of posting my changes on here, depending on how much the wingsweep changes things for my settings so far.
And now, my usual question: Lately, when I taxi out of the wires and into the bow cats to launch off the boat, in the NH v1.8.0 bird we're working on, it launches great, all the way to the end of the cat (Number 2 to be exact). Good end-speed, flaps are definately set properly, button on the Rudder-trim switch pressed for roper rotation off the cat, everything. I even make sure I "wipe" the controls once I am at 99% N2 for the launch, with the launch bar connected and hold-back working properly. As soon as I come off the cat, the plane rotates to the proper attitude, and then promptly begins an uncommanded rapid roll to the left, unaffectd by the stick inputs. With the pitch "up" this means that very quickly the plane's inverted and into the drink. I can almost, with max control inputs, get the nose to go "up" (down if I weren't inverted) and after a few seconds the uncommanded and uncontrollable roll stops and all is normal again. But I have to be lucky and fast to catch the plane in time and fly instead of swim. Any ideas on this? Did I change a setting someplace I shouldn't have? All I've changed that I am aware of is the flaps lift, drag, and pitch settings in aircraft.cfg, with two minor adjustments in the .air file. None of this, that I am aware of, will cause this. My load-out is symmetrical.
My land-based take-offs are normal, even with the same flaps/weight/pitch command settings. Rotates perfectly to the right attitude, everything. I am totally out of ideas on this one.
Thanks for any help you can provide. I am using an AICarriers.NET boat to launch off of, if it matters. Javier's Nimitz, to be exact. I have NO idea where to even begin to look, although I tend to suspect the FCS we're using to be at fault, although it may well be me doing something wrong...


hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #82 on: May 20, 2015, 10:02:31 pm »
Thanks for the link Pat, much appreciated. Would have take me a while to dig that up by hand.

I don't think you will have to redo the flaps specifically for the changed wingsweep. From my opinion it should not make a huge difference, and as the new wingsweep setting is still somewhat preliminary from my point of view, I would not put too much effort into it. I will leave the flaps settings I got myself so far as they are, and perhaps later fine tune them if necessary, or replace these with the ones you got.

Finding out what is causing the induced roll force after carrier launch, I would start verifying first if it happens with the current out of the box FSXBA 15.2 version (without PIDs), or the current (unchanged) NH 1.8.0 mods too. At a second step I would disable gauge by gauge parts of the FCS and see what happens. Instead of the AI Carriers .NET from Orion have you tried the original Java based version, too? From what you described the induced roll force must be quite hefty. Does it always stop after a fixed amount of time (seconds) after the launch, or does its stopping depend on your first manual stick input after the launch?  I hope these questions are of some help guessing where the issue might originate from.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 10:09:14 pm by hd764jvgd843 »

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #83 on: May 21, 2015, 07:37:39 am »
Thanks so much for the troubleshooting suggestions, Peter. I figured out my problems. Hard landings on the boat damaging gear and control surfaces. I apparently have a horrible habit of landing a little too hard, and left of centerline. Not enough for a full "Crash!" message, but enough for damage to occur. Then when I try to launch, the FCS tries to compensate for the damaged control surfaces, buuuut...
At least it was nice being right about something: It was, in fact, my fault entire :) I feel pretty small complaining about it now, though...
Practice, practice, practice! I have a flight saved in the NH v1.8.0, gear, flaps 1/2, 1,000'agl, on-speed, on AOA for the weight of the bird, behind the boat. I just need to make recovery after recovery till I get it right. When I feel comfortable running vLSO, then and only then will I feel I am doing acceptably. Till then, I can still work the flaps settings easily enough. I can only do so many in a row before I start getting stale and making stupid, simple mistakes. Then I do something else for the rest of my available time to clear my brain out, so to speak.
Anyway, enough of this. Thanks again for all the help, I really appreciate it! I will get my versions of the aircraft.cfg and .air file, along with a readme to indicate changes made, in the next few days. Hopefully NLT Saturday, I hope.
Pat☺

hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #84 on: May 21, 2015, 07:29:59 pm »
With additional aircraft folders, you wouldn't even need to place models or AIR files in a different folder.  Take a look at the TBM_Avenger_Ghost in SimObjects\Misc.

Hi Orion, I am trying to reference a texture path outside the current airplane folder, and it does not seem to be working. Have you any ideas or suggestions what I am doing wrong here.

Structure:
FA-18C_NH is the folder containing texture folders. I removed aircraft.cfg so the plane does not show in the menu.
FA-18C_NH_AIM is the folder for the A-A version, containing model, panel, sound etc. except textures.

When I reference locally within the A-A version folder, model shows in menu. As soon as I try to reference any other path outside this folder, the plane does not show in the menu anymore. Example:
texture=..\FA-18C_NH\USN_VFA-27_200

Best regards,
Peter

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #85 on: May 21, 2015, 08:18:15 pm »
I may well be wrong (I usually am), but I don't think you can alias texture folders to a different aircraft's folder. I get this from reading this in this https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526949.aspx#NotesonusingAliasing I found on-line:
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Notes on using Aliasing

Aliasing allows multiple aircraft, or other objects such as vehicles or boats, to use the same files (panels, flight models, sounds, etc.). This saves disk space and makes file organization more efficient. You can alias an object ’s panel.cfg, model.cfg, and sound.cfg files from any other object. Whereas configuration sets allow objects within a single container to share components, aliasing allows objects in different containers to share components. To alias a panel.cfg, model.cfg, or sound.cfg file, simply change the aliasing object's configuration file to read:

Like I said, I'm usually wrong about stuff, and I hope Mr. Orion will correct any errors I've made on this subject, but it's what I found.
I HAVE seen texture.cfg files inside the texture folders with "fallback.1=" etc in them. I bet they are the way of the doing it. Exactly how, I haven't a clue. It looks to me, maybe, that the main Texture folder is referenced by the individual texture folders, like texture.USMC_VMFAT-101, for example. So perhaps you need to have the one big Texture folder, and then the individual texture.xxxxxx folders for each airplane model variation...?
IE NH_FA-18C has the main Texture folder in it, and the folder FA-18C_NH_AIM has the unique texture folders, like texture.USN_VFA-27_200 etc, with a texture.cfg file in each one referencing the main Texture folder in NH_FA-18C in the fallback= lines. Maybe?
I'm just trying to think about how to do this...
It would still mean a lot of texture folders in each model version of the aircraft's folder, but they seem to have much fewer files within them, so thus saving some space on the HD, anyway. I do hope there's a better way, this is just they way I read the situation...
Pat☺
Pat☺

Orion

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #86 on: May 21, 2015, 09:48:30 pm »
What Pat describes with the fallbacks is the optimal way to share textures between repaints.  The note about aliasing is also correct; however, I was thinking you might be able to avoid having to add a texture.cfg with an alias.  Try texture=..\FA-18C_NH\texture.USN_VFA-27_200 instead.  This assumes both FA-18C_NH and FA-18C_NH_AIM are contained in the same folder.

jimi08

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #87 on: May 21, 2015, 09:58:35 pm »
Practice, practice, practice! I have a flight saved in the NH v1.8.0, gear, flaps 1/2, 1,000'agl, on-speed, on AOA for the weight of the bird, behind the boat.

Shouldn't flaps be FULL?  Might be part of your problem right there....

Justin "Jimi" Hendrix
FSX Blue Angels
FSXBA F/A-18C Hornet Latest Download Link: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,6944.msg117011.html#msg1

hd764jvgd843

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #88 on: May 22, 2015, 12:13:31 am »
Thank you all for your help, I've got it working now, although not the way I intended to.

Within each separate airplane folder at least an empty texture folder, for each texture, with a texture.cfg file needs to be present that is than referencing towards the folder where the texture is located, needs to be created. Will keep working on it and post a working release as soon as I am done!

Peter
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 12:15:35 am by hd764jvgd843 »

PhantomTweak

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Re: FA-18 C/D aircraft mod and texture pack (FSX, CS and NH)
« Reply #89 on: May 22, 2015, 07:21:55 am »
Jimi,
I'll be a SOB, you're right. I can't find the bloody sentence (Note? Caution?) now, of course, but I could have sworn I read someplace that at higher recovery weights 1/2 Flaps setting would reduce the effect of the "burble" in-close. Naturally, I can't find it in the friggen NATOPS now, however.
My way of saying, Yep, you were right. As I say, this is a learning curve, and in my case, obviously pretty steep. But hey! Never feel bad about things like this. When I was learning on gliders back when I was 14, my Instructor, name of Goldie, kept a yard stick in the back seat with him, and was not hesitant to use it...on me of course. Back of my head was pretty sore for the first few days the two weeks it took me to get my liscence. After that, well, either I got better or he decided it wasn't worth the bother :D
Thanks for the advice. it is now part and parcel or my procedures.
By the by, glad I was able to give a hint on your trouble with the textures, Peter!
Pat☺