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Products Support => Los Angeles support FS9 => Topic started by: ch00scd on December 05, 2011, 09:42:09 PM



Title: AES for KLAX?
Post by: ch00scd on December 05, 2011, 09:42:09 PM
Hello Umberto,

Oliver Pabst has released today its newest version of AES (V2.14) but unfortunately without KLAX. As I understood, he hasn't received the appropriate files from you yet despite the fact that KLAX has been released for FS9 already some weeks ago.

Could you please let me know if you plan to send him these files so that KLAX will also be supported by AES at the latest with the next version? Thanks a lot in advance.

Kind regards,

Daniel


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: virtuali on December 05, 2011, 09:54:47 PM
There are still some things we wanted to change in the jetways and the AFCAD, in some parkings the jetway type is not appropriate for the parking size, and we have been a bit busy right now with the O'Hare update, the Zurich update and GSX all happening at the same time, but we'll send the files as soon as possible, after we corrected all the remaining issues, that would otherwise break AES if we update the AFCAD positions/types after its release.


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: ch00scd on December 05, 2011, 10:07:27 PM
Hi Umberto,

Perfect, thanks a lot for your quick answer - I appreciate it very much.

Kind regards to Italy,

Daniel


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: FAlonso22 on December 05, 2011, 10:16:55 PM
Umberto, "soon as possible" is 2011 or 2012?  :D


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Dimon on December 05, 2011, 11:53:29 PM
Ohh.. people. Would it be possible to have it by Christmas?


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: B777ER on December 06, 2011, 09:55:59 AM
I have the FSX version so I have been waiting a willie now for AES. VERY disappointing Umberto that you all did not get the data files to Oliver. I am sure many many others feel the same way. We don't care about internal issues with the company, we would simply like to have AES for LAX as quickly as possible. Can you make this a priority?


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: virtuali on December 06, 2011, 10:52:54 AM
VERY disappointing Umberto that you all did not get the data files to Oliver

As I've said in my previous message, there are still some things we would like to change in the jetways and the AFCAD, and this will affect AES too, meaning it will BREAK it (possibly immediately after you pay for its credits), if we release another update after AES gets support for KLAX.

I'm sorry, but we don't have the slightest intention to change the priority we have set to released OUR OWN upgrades, just because this might delay AES support a bit.

So, please, understand there's only so much we can do at the same time, which means priorities have to be set, and someone WILL be disappointed anyway: O'Hare users were rightfully demanding their promised update and they waited a lot, Zurich users are already waiting the promised Terminal B update, and it would be really too much asking to put GSX on the backburner, to make a priority supporting AES.

So, it will come, but you'll have to wait a bit.


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Hernan2 on December 07, 2011, 09:31:37 AM
Hi Umberto. I'm glad to hear you are working on the AFCAD files. Now is when I feel my purchase is worth what I paid for. I am not familiar with any other program than AFCAD to adjust parking assignments, and I was getting dissapointed you were leaving it to us to use other programs, as AFCAD, is what you have with your other sceneries. I have not been able to use the scenery since I purchased it. I work at LAX and most departures and landings are to the west (toward the ocean). Not as it was in the file we all purchased. Departures and arrivals to the east are only after 11:00pm, due to noise abatement, and when the weather changes drastically, such as thunderstorms. Take offs on the north side are relegated to Runway 24L and on the south side to Runway 25R.
I'm looking forward to hear about your progress. Thanks again for your outstanding support.  :)


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: virtuali on December 07, 2011, 09:40:22 AM
I have not been able to use the scenery since I purchased it.

"Not being able to use is", it's really over the top. The scenery is obviously usable as it is now, and everyone is using without any issues.

Quote
I work at LAX and most departures and landings are to the west (toward the ocean). Not as it was in the file we all purchased. Departures and arrivals to the east are only after 11:00pm, due to noise abatement, and when the weather changes drastically, such as thunderstorms. Take offs on the north side are relegated to Runway 24L and on the south side to Runway 25R.

I'm sorry, but this can't be entirely fixed because how FS9/FSX works. It's not possible to just close a runway for takeoff/landing, the "close" flag will only affect the runway scoring with its weight, but there are other factors too, like distance from the gate (for takeoff) and of course wind.

The only way to "fix" would be altering the runways sizes, forcing Flight sim to prefer some runways, but that would mean both ends will go down in usage.

This is not really the place to explain in detail all the issues of runway selection, if you want to know more you can search or ask on fsdeveloper.com forum, were there are many AFCAD expert that will confirm this is not as simple as it sounds and we must accept Flight sim limitations.

So, the AFCAD improvements will act mostly on jetways (which is why I've said it would break AES it it was already released, but this is FSX only), parking sizes/types and perhaps airlines assignments, but not really runway usage, surely not in the way you would like it to be, because it's not really possible in FS9/FSX, unless using multiple AFCADs and switch between them.


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: w6kd on December 07, 2011, 02:45:29 PM

I'm sorry, but we don't have the slightest intention to change the priority we have set to released OUR OWN upgrades, just because this might delay AES support a bit.

So, please, understand there's only so much we can do at the same time, which means priorities have to be set, and someone WILL be disappointed anyway: O'Hare users were rightfully demanding their promised update and they waited a lot, Zurich users are already waiting the promised Terminal B update, and it would be really too much asking to put GSX on the backburner, to make a priority supporting AES.

So, it will come, but you'll have to wait a bit.

Let me start by pointing out that, up to now, I have purchased all of your sceneries, including some in Europe where I don't do a whole lot of sim flying.

This unhappy latest development with AES and KLAX gives me reason to reconsider that sort of support for your company in the future.

I bought KLAX after seeing you post that support for AES was forthcoming and the files were soon on the way to Oliver...not that it was forthcoming *after everything else you might have in your queue* as you've posted here today.

And let's be clear--this is not an issue of "supporting AES"--it's an issue of supporting a significant number of YOUR customers that use your scenery in conjunction with AES.  For me, KLAX without AES is hobbled and only partially usable, and I would not have bought it at the time had your priorities been made clear.

This is, to me, like being served a nice steak in a restaurant, and then having the waiter tell me he doesn't plan to serve the rest of my meal until every other customer in the restaurant is served.  Yeah, it's a great steak, but without the side dishes it's not the meal I ordered or expected...and the waiter's priorities make me more focused on being angry at him than the part of the meal he already served.

Regards

Bob Scott
Colonel, USAF (ret)
ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V
Colorado Springs, CO


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Bruce Hamilton on December 07, 2011, 03:22:44 PM
For me, KLAX without AES is hobbled and only partially usable, and I would not have bought it at the time had your priorities been made clear.

I think Virtuali's priorities have always been clear... When GSX was announced, he made it clear that it would receive priority over AES, and he was very clear that if the FS9 version of LAX wasn't released, there would be no AES support.  If you use FSX and purchase GSX, I doubt you'll miss AES at all.


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Lindbergh72 on December 07, 2011, 04:32:37 PM
For me, KLAX without AES is hobbled and only partially usable, and I would not have bought it at the time had your priorities been made clear.

I think Virtuali's priorities have always been clear... When GSX was announced, he made it clear that it would receive priority over AES, and he was very clear that if the FS9 version of LAX wasn't released, there would be no AES support.  If you use FSX and purchase GSX, I doubt you'll miss AES at all.

No Bruce, Bob is absolut 100% right. Well said Bob. FSX/9 is dying? You do know that XP10 and MS flight will come along soon?  ;)


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: pride545 on December 07, 2011, 05:11:50 PM
Yews, Bob said it well. It is the same old put off as always! Now we have to buy an update!! What's with this??? ???


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: virtuali on December 07, 2011, 06:42:13 PM
No Bruce, Bob is absolut 100% right. Well said Bob. FSX/9 is dying? You do know that XP10 and MS flight will come along soon?  ;)

No Bob/Lindbergh, Bruce is absolutely and 100% right: expecting that supporting AES would be our top priority BEFORE several other updates we promised long before it, and considering the imminent GSX release, is really asking too much. Nobody said we would never support AES at all, you just can't demand we put this before anything else.

But that's not the point, you keep ignoring the main part of the explanation, that we still have some issues left to fix in the AFCAD for KLAX, which will break AES if it was released starting from the current one, since it's exactly jetways positions and types we need to change, some parkings are misaligned/misplaced.


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Lindbergh72 on December 07, 2011, 08:34:45 PM
No Bruce, Bob is absolut 100% right. Well said Bob. FSX/9 is dying? You do know that XP10 and MS flight will come along soon?  ;)

No Bob/Lindbergh, Bruce is absolutely and 100% right: expecting that supporting AES would be our top priority BEFORE several other updates we promised long before it, and considering the imminent GSX release, is really asking too much. Nobody said we would never support AES at all, you just can't demand we put this before anything else.

But that's not the point, you keep ignoring the main part of the explanation, that we still have some issues left to fix in the AFCAD for KLAX, which will break AES if it was released starting from the current one, since it's exactly jetways positions and types we need to change, some parkings are misaligned/misplaced.

Hmm.. Yes it's your compagny, so U rule it... good luck Mr. Umberto when customers will run away.   :(


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: virtuali on December 07, 2011, 09:20:43 PM
Hmm.. Yes it's your compagny, so U rule it... good luck Mr. Umberto when customers will run away.

AES-using customers will run away because we are waiting for our AFCAD to be final, in order not to break AES at KLAX as soon it will be released ? You might even start saying we made it on purpose...

In any case, I really don't understand why this fuss is all about, and it's happening only here. Flightbeam's KSFO, just to give an example, was released in March 2011, was updated to 2.0 at the end of July, and got AES support in August, and the FS9 version was released in October.

I can't find any trace of any complains on their forum, not by FS9 users complaining about having to wait 7 months for the FS9 version (compared to all the flak we had here because KLAX for FS9 was released only 30 days after FSX), nor by AES users having to wait 5 months, compared to this useless discussion because it might come a couple of weeks later that it could.


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Lindbergh72 on December 07, 2011, 09:50:14 PM
Okay Umberto, that fair. What is the time line here? Can we expect it to the next aes release? U think?


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: B777ER on December 07, 2011, 10:32:51 PM
Umberto, us not complaining about Flightbeam is likely because he is brand new to the FS scene. Not much was known or expected. However, FSDT is an established well respected top-tier scenery company so more is expected of you all (you all should take this as a compliment). The bigger and better you are, the higher the expectations will be.


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Dimon on December 08, 2011, 02:12:51 AM
Okay Umberto, that fair. What is the time line here? Can we expect it to the next aes release? U think?

Yes, I'm next to this question. Any chance to get AES by Christmas, folks?

Many people, including myself, purchased FS2004 new KLAX in hope for AES. Otherwise, I would use C9 KLAX until now and save some money.

You decided not implement AES with C9 KLAX - ok, your choice. Then you suggested that new remodelled KLAX will have AES. Now we have new KLAX and we don't have AES again (!!!). This is very frustrating in terms of customer relations.

Thank you


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Bill511 on December 08, 2011, 12:17:18 PM
Good grief! Is there no patience anymore ???
Seriously!


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: KingCat on December 08, 2011, 12:33:40 PM

I can't find any trace of any complains on their forum, not by FS9 users complaining about having to wait 7 months for the FS9 version (compared to all the flak we had here because KLAX for FS9 was released only 30 days after FSX), nor by AES users having to wait 5 months, compared to this useless discussion because it might come a couple of weeks later that it could.

Well......I did complain on the Aerosoft forum about we had to wait very long for AES-support. See overhere: http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php/topic/47111-aes-212-released/

Look for post# 13    ;D


Jon


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Bruce Hamilton on December 08, 2011, 02:54:05 PM
Interesting sig you use on Aerosoft forum, maybe it applies here to LAX not having AES.   ;D ;D


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Ankh on December 08, 2011, 03:08:19 PM
In any case, I really don't understand why this fuss is all about, and it's happening only here. Flightbeam's KSFO, just to give an example, was released in March 2011, was updated to 2.0 at the end of July, and got AES support in August, and the FS9 version was released in October.

Well, maybe you start to realize what I desperately tried to explain to you already in other threads, especially the one about Zurich's update. Maybe the Flightbeam guys don't keep posting completely misleading post's about when the customers can expect this and that? Maybe you now understand that people get mad if you promise things to be released "soon" with soon=several months? Mabye people get impatient due to postings of yours like this? Or maybe: people get tired in the end because you come up with a "reasonable excuse / explanation" why in the end it was again not possible to finish this and that in time... But honestly, I expect exactly the same reaction again on this post...


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: virtuali on December 08, 2011, 03:41:50 PM
Maybe the Flightbeam guys don't keep posting completely misleading post's about when the customers can expect this and that? Maybe you now understand that people get mad if you promise things to be released "soon" with soon=several months?

Again, you still failed to understand the main motivation, which is of course we still need to fix some things in the AFCAD that will affects AES and will break it immediately after release, and this problems have been FOUND BY USERS:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4730.0

We didn't intentionally put bugs in, we though those were all fixed with the 1.1 update, but there are still several things that need fixing, and as that user reported, even some parking are missing, and there are other problems with misalignments too.

There's a side effect of having to deal with people that *bought* AES credits: we have less freedom to improve the AFCAD after AES is released, because many modifications that affects parkings, jetways and taxiway paths, will break it until Oliver release a fix based on the new AFCAD, it happened with both new versions of Zurich and KORD but, since both were fairly old sceneries that weren't updated in years, it wasn't really a problem but, with KLAX being new and with its AFCAD still in the process of being refined, it's best to have a "final" version before letting AES being based on it, because there's a fair chance that people would have to wait for another update as soon as they bought credits for it,


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: virtuali on December 08, 2011, 03:59:27 PM
You decided not implement AES with C9 KLAX - ok, your choice. Then you suggested that new remodelled KLAX will have AES. Now we have new KLAX and we don't have AES again (!!!). This is very frustrating in terms of customer relations.

Nobody said you'll not have AES in the new KLAX, the scenery has even taken its toll on performances that it wouldn't had if it was made as the Cloud9 version (jetways integral with the terminal are much faster compared to being separated in order to be excluded by AES), which was faster also because it couldn't be easily enhanced by AES, not the only reason, but one of them.

There will be support for it but, we need to have a final AFCAD for AES to based on otherwise, the same people who are now complaining because is not out yet, would then complain asking why we modified our AFCAD immediately after the AES release, making their credit purchase unusable until the next fix.


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Dimon on December 08, 2011, 05:36:17 PM
Umberto,

Do you have any timeframe for release? Christmas 2011, January 2012, Q1 2012...


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: virtuali on December 08, 2011, 10:25:10 PM
Do you have any timeframe for release? Christmas 2011, January 2012, Q1 2012...

Before the end of the year, likely, because we are going to check all our AFCADs anyway due to the GSX release. So, really, all this drama is just for a couple of weeks more.


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Dimon on December 09, 2011, 02:23:32 AM
Do you have any timeframe for release? Christmas 2011, January 2012, Q1 2012...

Before the end of the year, likely, because we are going to check all our AFCADs anyway due to the GSX release. So, really, all this drama is just for a couple of weeks more.

Thank you!


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: natbrain on December 10, 2011, 09:37:32 PM
Umberto, first of all, I just bought LAX for FS9, and I'm very excited to have a very nice looking scenery at one of the largest airports, especially being from California myself. It's beautiful. Now, speaking of this AFCAD, I've noticed another thing: the Southwest airlines terminal in the real LAX is Terminal 1, which is the Northeast most terminal in that loop of terminals at LAX. In the FSDT LAX, however, the Southwest airlines are at Terminal 2, which in reality, is supposed to be an international terminal. Maybe LAX will change it, but for now, did you intend to do this? If not, will the AFCAD fix any incorrect airline terminal parkings?


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: newmanix on December 14, 2011, 02:51:11 AM
Umberto, first of all, I just bought LAX for FS9, and I'm very excited to have a very nice looking scenery at one of the largest airports, especially being from California myself. It's beautiful. Now, speaking of this AFCAD, I've noticed another thing: the Southwest airlines terminal in the real LAX is Terminal 1, which is the Northeast most terminal in that loop of terminals at LAX. In the FSDT LAX, however, the Southwest airlines are at Terminal 2, which in reality, is supposed to be an international terminal. Maybe LAX will change it, but for now, did you intend to do this? If not, will the AFCAD fix any incorrect airline terminal parkings?

You just have to search read. ::)  http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=4898.0 This is a temp fix for those issues.


And everyone complaining about why LAX isn't AES'd yet is really over reacting.  ::)


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Lindbergh72 on December 14, 2011, 09:55:15 PM
Yes, let us give Umberto room for work..  ;)


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: natbrain on December 15, 2011, 02:02:10 AM
thank you newmanix.


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: newmanix on December 16, 2011, 05:37:47 AM
thank you newmanix.

No problem. The project is on hold till after Umberto's update. Then we'll see it it needs my touch.  ;)


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Dimon on December 23, 2011, 01:56:20 PM
What is the story so far, folks?


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: virtuali on December 23, 2011, 02:16:20 PM
We are still working on the KLAX update, we *have* to work on it anyway, because of the GSX release, as soon we finished, it WILL be sent to Oliver for inclusion in AES.


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Dimon on December 23, 2011, 03:27:22 PM
Thanks Umberto. Any chance to finish this item before NY Eve as initially planned?


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Bruce Hamilton on December 23, 2011, 04:33:27 PM
Which item are you talking about?  GSX, the LAX update, or LAX getting AES?   ;D


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: virtuali on December 23, 2011, 05:12:33 PM
It all depends how many bugs we (and our testers) find in GSX. Everything we are doing right now, basically, depends on it...


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Dimon on December 23, 2011, 11:13:48 PM
Which item are you talking about?  GSX, the LAX update, or LAX getting AES?   ;D

Since it's FS9 forum, we're obviously talking AES ;)


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Dimon on December 29, 2011, 01:16:31 AM
I see that LSZH 2.5 is completed and CYVR backdoor is opened. Perhaps it's time to do something about LAX AES that we've been literally waiting for 5 years (since C9 release).


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: virtuali on December 29, 2011, 12:24:12 PM
I see that LSZH 2.5 is completed and CYVR backdoor is opened. Perhaps it's time to do something about LAX AES that we've been literally waiting for 5 years (since C9 release).

I've sent all the needed files to Oliver yesterday so, it's not in our hands anymore.


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: ch00scd on December 29, 2011, 12:52:18 PM
Hi Umberto,

Great news, thanks a lot. I am looking forward to KLAX supported by AES.

Kind regards,

Daniel


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: Dimon on December 29, 2011, 01:19:02 PM
I see that LSZH 2.5 is completed and CYVR backdoor is opened. Perhaps it's time to do something about LAX AES that we've been literally waiting for 5 years (since C9 release).

I've sent all the needed files to Oliver yesterday so, it's not in our hands anymore.

Thank you very much, Umberto


Title: Re: AES for KLAX?
Post by: substance on January 04, 2012, 01:22:45 PM


Thank you Umberto for providing the files to Oliver!

And a happy new year to all of the fsdreamteam

Goetz