FSDreamTeam forum

FS9 support => Chicago O'Hare for FS9 => Topic started by: Dillon on March 13, 2008, 11:11:30 PM



Title: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Dillon on March 13, 2008, 11:11:30 PM
First off outstanding effort.  The only problem I have is I'm finding is American Airlines parking spots at the FedEx terminal  (I use Flight1's Ultimate Traffic).  There's MD80's parked boldly at FedEx's ramp.  They should be over in the terminal area.  The location is FedEx's Terminal closest to the threshold of RWY 9R.  The best thing I could see is kill those forward area parking spots in front of the FedEx terminal from within the AFCAD.  The placement of these active spots actually interferes with taxing into the Fedex ramp closest to RWY 9R.


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 13, 2008, 11:24:09 PM
Hi

I am redoing the afcad completely. This star system is not working properly. Just wait and you will see a new one here. :)

Anyway I just have the Fedex aircrafts in the right places.

harpsi


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 14, 2008, 12:04:10 AM
Hi

I need some information from people who know KORD.

I need to know for each runway, whatīs the most common operation: take off, landing or both 50/50. I explain why: I amd trying to get rid of some weird things but they are being difficult to solve, since this is just a game and not real life. One of them is t oget rid of all take offs from runway 22 R. I believe this is one is more used for landing, right?

Another weird thing is the confluence of too much aircrafts in some hold shorts, specially the ones at runway 28 and 04 L.

I just need that information and I will get back.

harpsi



Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: bucifan on March 14, 2008, 02:08:16 AM
Would making multiple AFCAD'S like Amsterdam solve any of the problems. I'm not positive, but there might be runways not used during night hours. Runway usage would also change with varying winds. Just a thought. Don't want to make any more work for you, but wouldn't the basic AFCAD stay the same, with just different runway assignments for t/o & landing.

Rick


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 14, 2008, 02:28:21 AM
Would making multiple AFCAD'S like Amsterdam solve any of the problems. I'm not positive, but there might be runways not used during night hours. Runway usage would also change with varying winds. Just a thought. Don't want to make any more work for you, but wouldn't the basic AFCAD stay the same, with just different runway assignments for t/o & landing.

Rick

This is a difficult airport like EHAM because one side of some runways is used for one type of operation (for example: landing), and the other side of the same runway is only opened for the other type of operation (takeoff in this case).

I am trying several options for some hours and I need to close some runways for TO or for landing. There will be no option for sure, but first I have another big issue to solve that I want you to confirm: aircrafts taxiing over each other. It is happening with me and only with KORD which is strange, so I am trying to solve this issue first.

harpsi




Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Dillon on March 14, 2008, 03:08:30 AM
Thanks for the hard work your putting in.  Wish I could help more but I'm from Minneapolis and know little about KORD day to day operations.  :-\


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 14, 2008, 03:13:30 AM
Hi

Try this file for now. I have to go away til tomorrow so I canīt work more on these issues today. I will return tomorrow evening.

harpsi

[attachment deleted by admin]


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: OldOrchard512 on March 14, 2008, 04:40:04 AM
Not sure if this will help but it lists all runway configurations used by ATC on the third or fourth page down... http://www.carmachicago.com/profiles/OHareAirport.pdf


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: bucifan on March 14, 2008, 06:17:27 AM
Doesn't United use gates E1 to E3, and F1 to F14 for its Express Fleet's parking spots? Also, and I' no AFCAD expert, but by naming these and the G gates as GA Parking, aren't you inviting GA (BizJets, etc) to park there?

Rick


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: big_al on March 14, 2008, 06:45:07 AM
yes you should not make smaller gate parking titled "ramp GA", it still should be gate small but with the smaller radius.

Also lots of cargo parking missing coding. UPS ramp missing all codes, fedex parks in the northern area not the southern area of the southwest parking area. And in the northwest there should be some more spots too, abx air and astar park up there next to the ga ramp.


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Danthepilot on March 14, 2008, 07:51:11 AM
Yeah, new AFCAD was a bit better, still, planes are taxiing on top of each other not waiting behind one another and second, AAL is parking everywhere but their own terminal......its odd.......anyways, great job guys the scenery is excellent!!!  :)


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 14, 2008, 08:20:11 AM
Yeah, new AFCAD was a bit better, still, planes are taxiing on top of each other not waiting behind one another and second, AAL is parking everywhere but their own terminal......its odd.......anyways, great job guys the scenery is excellent!!!  :)

But this afcad is far from complete... according to my level of exigence :D

I will add some spots more for cargo planes. About AAL I just find them at the right terminals. I will look at that OHare manual tonight, to see what I can do with the runways. F1 to F14 is there: United operated by "...". I donīt have Bizjets and small jets there... Maybe we are trying different codes for parking. Letīs wait for tonight and I will play with these things.

harpsi


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: bucifan on March 14, 2008, 08:35:35 AM
harpsi:

I understand the AFCAD is not completed. But I believe that E1-E3 and F1-F14 are for United's regional jets. Right now it looks like they are coded mostly for USAirways.

The question I was asking about naming a gate as a Parking - GA (small/medium/large) is now this will allow GA aircraft to park at the terminal.....will it not?  If BizJets and other GA aircraft land at KORD, they would park at appropriate area. I always thought that gates for scheduled carriers should be labeled Gates, and that Parking GA____ was only for GA aircraft.

I am not criticing your work, only pointing out some things that caught my eye!

Rick


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 14, 2008, 09:00:32 AM
Quote
F1-F14 are for United's regional jets. Right now it looks like they are coded mostly for USAirways.

USAX and UALX use F1 to F14...

For the rest it is already changed. Tonight I will have more news.

harpsi



Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Dillon on March 14, 2008, 05:15:34 PM
I forgot to post last night but like everyone has already stated, airlines aren't parking in their appropriate terminals.  I'm still seeing (actually it's worse with your latest Afcad located here in this forum) AA aircraft parking at the Fedex ramp along with DHL (Fedex ramp closet to RWY 9R).  Last night I saw a Northwest 747-400 parked at the FedEx ramp as well.  Depending on the time of day you'll even get an El Al Israel Airlines 744 parked at the Fedex ramp.   


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Dimon on March 14, 2008, 05:21:26 PM
What does NWA 747-400 do in KORD?  :D


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: dc10boy on March 14, 2008, 05:51:46 PM
When we had 747s runninbg into ORD we used E-15 or E-14. the freighter whales used SW cargo. you'll have to Back-date your AFcad  making these gates for heavies.
Stan


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Mike... on March 14, 2008, 06:55:27 PM
Just installed and bought the scenery. Very nice work, but the Afcad does indeed need some serious tweaking. A big problem I've noticed is gate size. According to the PAI Recommended Radius specification, the MD-80 series should have a model radius of 24m. The reason a lot of American Airlines traffic is parked elsewhere, is that a lot of AAL only gates are 18m or 22m. Too small. If you increase those AAL spots to 24m, you should already notice a difference. ;)

As to gate types. ALL commercial traffic spots should be of type Gate. All general aviation spots of type Ramp GA. All cargo spots of type Ramp Cargo. No matter where the spots are located, no matter how big or small they are. At the same time, your AI traffic should adhere to the same rules. (Goes for codes, types, radii.) All commercial AI should have GATE as parking types for example. Even smaller traffic that may not park at the terminal, but on the "ramp". Etc...

There's also the link width issue as mentioned elsewhere that may affect traffic operation. There's a reason Fault Finder displays them.

Anyway, lots of stuff to do with the Afcad still, so what I'm doing here, I do not know. ;D


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: virtuali on March 14, 2008, 07:25:22 PM
Mike,

Lot of issue you mentioned are there for a reason: cross-compatibility with FSX. For example, the ramp/gate assignment has been made like that, because otherwise FSX would place its own fps-killing ground vehicles at all gates flagged as "gates". By flagging as "ramp", we can place our more fps-friendly vehicles instead.

The 0 width is also done because of a FSX requirement: the way we did the terrain textures in FSX (quite an unorthodox one...), the width 0 is there to not have ground artifacts. We are looking to fix this in some other way.

That's for a first release, because we wanted to offer the FS9 version on release date, so we simply derived the supplied AFCAD from the FSX base version. We understand it make little sense to limit the FS9 AFCAD with requirements relevant to FSX only so, in the next days/weeks, we'll have the FS9 version of the AFCAD to progressively diverge more and more from the FSX one, and fixing what can be fixed, considering KORD is a very tricky airport to handle, with the current AI engine.

Also, another thing we are planning to improve for the AFCAD, it's the addition of instrumental procedures for the two renamed runways (9L/27R has become 9R/27L and 9R/27L has become 10/28), that are currently missing. We are working on it.

The AFCAD for this particular airport will always be a constant work in progress: both because is very big, complex and full of stand/places to test, and because the real-world airport is undergoing a massive rebuild, so we are already planning for improvements to the *scenery* itself, when the new runways will eventually open, and that of course will impact AFCAD as well in a big way.


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: big_al on March 14, 2008, 07:50:30 PM
the reason why most big planes are now parking in the cargo areas is probably because there arent enough heavy gates for them. looking forward to another release of the afcad for fs9


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: OPabst on March 14, 2008, 08:15:55 PM
Try the afcad file which is in the chicago FS 9 section. I want as much answers as possible. I am trying to discover two issues, one of them, a big one: please confirm is aircrafts are making colisions. For some reason I tested now EDDF aerosoft, EBBR aerosoft, EGLL simwings and LFPG simwings, EHAM cloud 9, which are 5 big airports in Europe and this problem didnīt happen to me any time. Please, answer in the afcad section. I am off for today since I spent several hours with just an afcad file. Crosswind star system is functioning on this one.

Hi Harspi,

the reason for the collisions on the Taxiways are the "width" values of the Taxipathes in your AFCAD. They are mostly 0.10 instead of a "normal" values like 30.0. When I change them all the 30, all is fine.And, in front of the startpoint of Runway 32R, a hold short node is missing.
And please use the diamonts at the runwaycrossings, that's much better then long waiting aircrafts.
And please change the small gate positions minimum to a radius of 24, only where really only very small aircafts can park, use 18m.



Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: EDDT-Sebi on March 14, 2008, 09:00:46 PM
Try the afcad file which is in the chicago FS 9 section. I want as much answers as possible. I am trying to discover two issues, one of them, a big one: please confirm is aircrafts are making colisions. For some reason I tested now EDDF aerosoft, EBBR aerosoft, EGLL simwings and LFPG simwings, EHAM cloud 9, which are 5 big airports in Europe and this problem didnīt happen to me any time. Please, answer in the afcad section. I am off for today since I spent several hours with just an afcad file. Crosswind star system is functioning on this one.

Hi Harspi,

the reason for the collisions on the Taxiways are the "width" values of the Taxipathes in your AFCAD. They are mostly 0.10 instead of a "normal" values like 30.0. When I change them all the 30, all is fine.And, in front of the startpoint of Runway 32R, a hold short node is missing.
And please use the diamonts at the runwaycrossings, that's much better then long waiting aircrafts.
And please change the small gate positions minimum to a radius of 24, only where really only very small aircafts can park, use 18m.


@Papst, you are right, because Aircraft Radius!

@Harspi, know you about AI Traffic, a lot of approach, wait to cross Runway to north ramp, or to south runways! Example:

(http://www.buechiland.de/Images/AF2_KORD_01.jpg)
to
(http://www.buechiland.de/Images/AF2_KORD_02.jpg)

(http://www.buechiland.de/Images/AF2_KORD_03.jpg)
to
(http://www.buechiland.de/Images/AF2_KORD_04.jpg)
That is AI Traffic easy free..!

Sebastian


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Mike... on March 14, 2008, 09:45:04 PM
Fair enough, Umberto. I'm not a user of FSX, so I'm not aware of those issues and remedies. They are easily fixed anyway.

As for the approach code, I already made a file for that some time ago, you can find it in the Avsim Library (http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=112914). As per the readme, the runways and start locations are already properly named. The ILS names need to be updated in the Afcad though. Should works just fine after that.

BTW, there's also a hold short node missing at the beginning of 22L. And somewhere in the middle of 14R/32L.


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: jesusgi on March 14, 2008, 10:28:39 PM
Mike

What do those ILS names in the KORD AFCAD need to be updated or changed to in order to work with your Phase 2 file?


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 14, 2008, 11:55:09 PM
I forgot to post last night but like everyone has already stated, airlines aren't parking in their appropriate terminals.  I'm still seeing (actually it's worse with your latest Afcad located here in this forum) AA aircraft parking at the Fedex ramp along with DHL (Fedex ramp closet to RWY 9R).  Last night I saw a Northwest 747-400 parked at the FedEx ramp as well.  Depending on the time of day you'll even get an El Al Israel Airlines 744 parked at the Fedex ramp.   

It doesnīt happen to me but I will look at it. Fedex is parked near runwat 10 and I donīt have any Fedex aircrafts at the terminals. I will look at this during this night.

harpsi


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 14, 2008, 11:57:59 PM
Just installed and bought the scenery. Very nice work, but the Afcad does indeed need some serious tweaking. A big problem I've noticed is gate size. According to the PAI Recommended Radius specification, the MD-80 series should have a model radius of 24m. The reason a lot of American Airlines traffic is parked elsewhere, is that a lot of AAL only gates are 18m or 22m. Too small. If you increase those AAL spots to 24m, you should already notice a difference. ;)


I have MDs, indeed the same MDs with different parking radius. I didnīt change them with aircraft editor. They come like this...Anyway, I will look at this as well.
harpsi


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 15, 2008, 12:02:43 AM
Hi

I am taking notes from all your good comments. As you know this issues need hours of testing, because in the first 15 minutes the simulator is a mess, so I always need 30 minutes to test some simple issues. I am paying attention and taking notes from everything. I am sure that, like I did with other sceneries, the best afcad will come. Just wait a little bit.

harpsi


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Mike... on March 15, 2008, 12:41:05 AM
Mike

What do those ILS names in the KORD AFCAD need to be updated or changed to in order to work with your Phase 2 file?

If you open the KORD Afcad, then go to the Navaid List, you will see the ILS frequencies. For example, it'll say runway 10, that's good, but the name will still say ILS/DME 09R. Simply highlight, click properties (or double-click), then change the name field to ILS/DME 10. Make three more changes and then your Navaid List should look like this:

(http://users.telenet.be/mike-online/navaid.jpg)

Oh and obviously, only use "KORD.bgl" from my package and remember to place it in the correct folder.


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 15, 2008, 12:51:15 AM
Hi

Look. I already said this. We are still working on this. While I was beginning with my work, I was surprised with the release of the scenery. Another issue: I am ONLY working on the FS 9 afcad. I donīt use FSX. Maybe in 1 year who knows. I am posting on this forum, just because of this fact.

harpsi


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Dillon on March 15, 2008, 08:08:37 AM
Harpsi your doing a great job.  I'm sure with time all issues will be sorted out.  It's also good to know your an FS9 holdout for obvious reasons.  FS9 is seeing it's best days with scenery like this.  Imagine Chicago with both detailed KMDW and now KORD, who could ask for anything more?  Take your time Harpsi, we fully support your effort...  ;)


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 15, 2008, 11:10:13 AM
Hi

Tks. I am just using FS 9 for obvious reasons, like you said. You canīt have all the addons available (maybe in 1 year you will have them) and you need a new machine for all of this. There is no money for a new machine every year. LOL

harpsi


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Michael_B767_ATP on March 15, 2008, 11:20:35 AM
Hi Harpsi,

I just wanted to let you know I appreciate all the work you have done, and are doing to correct the AFCAD.


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 15, 2008, 11:26:07 AM
Hi Harpsi,

I just wanted to let you know I appreciate all the work you have done, and are doing to correct the AFCAD.


Tks. Do not thank only me. We are a team and Oliver and Alessandro are contributing also, and well, all the beta testers and users too, because I need your opinions and inputs. I was never in the USA so I canīt imagine what happens in KORD every day.  ;D



harpsi


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 15, 2008, 12:12:51 PM
Hi again

Just for your attention, this is how I will restart working: I will check all the airline assignements, type of gate, parking radius for all gates, one by one, because the diamond technic is now done and the taxiways width is now changed for FS 9 users. After that I will see all your comments, and then, the last step will be to produce 3 different afcads, which will support almost 92,5 % of the traffic options at KORD. I will do plan-X, plan-B (can also used for IFR-2 configuration) and Plan-W.

So, please be ready for testing in some hours. :D

harpsi


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 15, 2008, 01:43:30 PM

Quote

Was that directed at me?


No.  ;D ;D ;D

harpsi


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Mike... on March 15, 2008, 02:05:44 PM
 ::)


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Tom C on March 15, 2008, 06:04:41 PM
Hi again

Just for your attention, this is how I will restart working: I will check all the airline assignements, type of gate, parking radius for all gates, one by one, because the diamond technic is now done and the taxiways width is now changed for FS 9 users. After that I will see all your comments, and then, the last step will be to produce 3 different afcads, which will support almost 92,5 % of the traffic options at KORD. I will do plan-X, plan-B (can also used for IFR-2 configuration) and Plan-W.

So, please be ready for testing in some hours. :D

harpsi
Give me a shout if you need some help on the parking assignments side of things and general testing.


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 15, 2008, 07:07:39 PM
Hi

Ok, guys. It is almost ready :D :D

Now, what I need to ask is where some cargo airlines are parked, except fedex and air france because we can see the buildings from those companies. All the others I donīt know so much... like ABX and so on.

Another thing is: I will make 3 afcads - Plan X, Plan B and Plan W (can be used with IFR-2 also). This one is Plan W, so you must set the winds for runways 22, 27, 28 and 32. I will make the other 2 when all the issues are sorted out, because I already have the configuration for them and it takes 30 minutes to do both two.

I will open a new topic for the new afcad and from now on, you will post there only, otherwise it is a big confusion with a lot of files and afcad topics.

I am playing now and testing. One of the big issues is the facr that United Airlines has not enough spots available so they are parking everywhere. Thatīs why I opened more 20 spots in the Northwest Area for UAL + ULAX.

harpsi


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: big_al on March 15, 2008, 07:27:33 PM
can you put more spots in the maintenance areas? that way we can have united overflow park there. Also are there parking for usa3000 airlines? And a few more general aviation parking in the northeast ramp? Im not sure about cargo airlines except I know UPS parks in the southwest area, mainly from parking 12-16 and in the 21-24 area. Probably a lot more, too. I think most other cargo airlines share that area and a few contractors like polar and atlas air might park in the fedex area once in a while. I believe dhl (astar and abx air) park in the northeast general aviation area. Looking at google map you can see a few of their planes. Thats why it would be nice to have more cargo spots available.


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 15, 2008, 07:42:55 PM
Hi

I added almost all spots available at those buildings on the east area, north to runway 09 R. I will place the airlines I have information. After the file is on the new topic, you can post there all the issues, after testing and then I can make the other two files.

harpsi


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Tom C on March 15, 2008, 08:35:47 PM

Now, what I need to ask is where some cargo airlines are parked, except fedex and air france because we can see the buildings from those companies. All the others I donīt know so much... like ABX and so on.

Most, if not all cargo airlines park in the South Cargo ramps.
UPS, ABX, NCA, JAL, are definately in the southern one, and FedEx is in the northern one of them.
UPS taking the first 5 spots on the left as you taxi in.

Here's a few from airliners.nie of the area.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Martinair/McDonnell-Douglas-MD-11CF/0937179/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/American-Airlines/Boeing-757-.../1082935/L/

http://www.airliners.net/photo/-/-/0410894/L/



Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Opa on March 15, 2008, 09:39:14 PM

In making tweaks to the afcad I hope the authors will not forget to address the problems of aircraft taxiing in being confronted with aircraft taxiing out - in which case neither will give way and they all just time out.



Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 16, 2008, 12:36:07 AM
Hi

Just one problem to solve: how to delete stock ILS? I need to rename ILS for one of the files, and FS doesnīt allow me to do that.

harpsi


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Tom C on March 16, 2008, 02:16:56 AM
Hi

Just one problem to solve: how to delete stock ILS? I need to rename ILS for one of the files, and FS doesnīt allow me to do that.

harpsi
Have you asked Martin or George over at Fly Tampa.
Pretty sure they did the same on one of their packs.
Know you visited there a while back.


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 16, 2008, 02:47:32 AM
Hi

Please post in the item of "new afcad for kord". What they did with TNCM is something different. This is for crosswind technic. Is it one of the issues of the new package but I hope it has no influence on the traffic. Anyway, test the files and post there please.

harpsi


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: Dillon on March 16, 2008, 05:27:13 AM
Harpsi I don't know if you've seen this in FS9 but I found something really weird with the Minneapolis area.  They have an AFCAD actually tied to airport scenery.  There's a default afcad for KMSP that if you delete it you loose all the local area airports.  This makes for a problem child with add-ons such as Blueprint's KMSP (which needs it's own afcad).  When you add an afcad on top of the default afcad for KMSP performance suffers.  There's no way to get around a double afacd when add-on scenery is created for airports like KMSP.  I wonder what Aces was thinking when they did this?  It would have been nice like in most cases to be able to shut down the default afcad and used one specifically designed for the add-on airport in question.  When you have double afcads in FS9 performance is really affected for that area.


Title: Re: Afcad Problem, wrong aircraft placement.
Post by: harpsi on March 16, 2008, 05:35:00 PM
Hi

Please, donīt post here. There are new afcads in the other post. However, here it is. Just 2 of the 4 afcads to show you.

harpsi

[attachment deleted by admin]