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FS9 support => Dallas FS9 => Topic started by: jerel2k10 on August 07, 2010, 04:08:16 AM



Title: Some AI is floating
Post by: jerel2k10 on August 07, 2010, 04:08:16 AM
Great scenery.   Just purchased it.   I have noticed that some AI models are floating when taxiing.   I checked the AI models in question and sometimes they float others times they don't.   Any ideas for this behavior?

I just found this excerpt via google -

"My airplanes are floating or are sunk partly in the ground
1) This problem, which only occurs for add-on scenery, is due to the elevation of the add-on airport
being different from that of the default one.
Solution: A french guy, Jacky Brouze, has made now a little program JABBGL enabling to put the
default elevation of an airport to the add-on one. There is however still one drawback, which is due to
a little bug in the AFCAD2 program, i.e. the decimals in the elevation of the runway (in m) doesn't work
properly (it does work well in that of the reference point). This means that planes after landing will be a
little sunk or a little hanging. We hope that Lee Swordy will correct that soon.
The adjusting program can be downloaded at AVSIM (jabbgl.zip)."


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Longhornmaniac8 on August 07, 2010, 04:09:49 AM
Good to know that I wasn't the only one! :-D Funny that we'd post essentially the same topic less than a minute apart.

Cheers,
Cameron


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Dimon on August 07, 2010, 04:29:38 AM
Good Catch, folks.

I have exactly the same issue and it refers to the arriving traffic only.


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Dimon on August 07, 2010, 04:38:31 AM
QUICK FIX:

Changing AGL Height from 607 to 603 (default value) fully solves the issue. You MUST do this adjustment for the Airport reference point and all the runaways.

Please report if any anomalities will show up

Thanks
Dmitriy


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: jerel2k10 on August 07, 2010, 05:32:37 AM
Found something.   I am using AFX and when I attempt to change the airport reference point to 603 it asks would I like to set the elevation of individual airport runways, helipads and ILS glideslopes to the new elevation value?   Do I answer Yes / No ?


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Mike... on August 07, 2010, 02:36:37 PM
Yes, you want everything to be the same (hopefully correct) height.

:)


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: virtuali on August 07, 2010, 03:00:28 PM
This is odd, because the real world correct elevation for the scenery is 607 feets (see the airport diagram in the manual), which is what we have in the scenery.

The default scenery at 603 is wrong so, if you are seeing floating AI, there must be some other scenery that is setting the altitude based on the default value, but AI (being driven by our AFCAD) are floating at the correct height, we'll try to find what that might be.


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Dimon on August 07, 2010, 03:12:13 PM
This is odd, because the real world correct elevation for the scenery is 607 feets (see the airport diagram in the manual), which is what we have in the scenery.

The default scenery at 603 is wrong so, if you are seeing floating AI, there must be some other scenery that is setting the altitude based on the default value, but AI (being driven by our AFCAD) are floating at the correct height, we'll try to find what that might be.

I have UT USA installed, but it's obviously below DFW


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Mike... on August 07, 2010, 03:29:11 PM
It's a long shot, but floating or sunken AI can also be caused by the height used in the traffic bgl files, which can be different for different airlines. Some time ago, I saw someone at AIG mention that. Now, if the default KDFW has always been 603ft (the airport reference point in the default Afcad does not have the same location as the Field Elevation on the Airport Diagram, which may explain the difference), then there's a good change AI flight planners use that value as well (although that is mosty an automated process, see CollectAirports, part of the TTools package). Oddly enough, I just checked and I have a value of 600 in my latest Airports file generated by CollectAirports. All these different values are probably not helping, but I have not seen any floating or sinking at KDFW or at any other airport for that matter. I have a pretty clean install. Perhaps it is a scenery conflict. You'd think that if something like that would happen, it'd happen consistently though.

???


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: jerel2k10 on August 07, 2010, 03:37:00 PM
I just did a check of some our (AIG) airport files vs. the default generated fs2004 collectairports.exe copy and those values are both 600.


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Mike... on August 07, 2010, 03:46:51 PM
I wonder why CollectAirports uses 600? But that's probably for another time.

;)


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: virtuali on August 07, 2010, 04:01:37 PM
Ok, we think to have found the issue: another .BGL in the scenery was still at the default value. Try with this updated file, to be put into FS9\fsdreamteam\KDFW\scenery

EDIT:

That file wasn't enough, you ALSO need to put this new file (KDFW_FSDT_ALT.BGL) in the

FS9\Scenery\World\scenery


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Dimon on August 07, 2010, 04:13:21 PM
If I already adsjusted ADCAD for 603, should I download this file or not?


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: virtuali on August 07, 2010, 04:54:41 PM
If you download BOTH files (check that I've added a new one, to be put into Scenery\World\scenery ), you should revert the AFCAD to 607 ft. This way, everything will be correct and according to real world :)


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Mike... on August 07, 2010, 05:21:49 PM
How soon will all the current fixes be included in the main installer or is that already the case?


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: virtuali on August 07, 2010, 05:27:33 PM
How soon will all the current fixes be included in the main installer or is that already the case?

All the current fixes posted so far are already included, except for those two files that controls the altitude. They will be included in the installer as soon as possible, but I don't see someone redownload 80MB, to get 2 files at 1K each, so they'll also stay here.


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: jerel2k10 on August 07, 2010, 07:04:31 PM
Just so I understand ...

the KDFW.bgl file goes in the FSDT\KDFW\Scenery folder

the KDFW_FSDT_ALT goes in the Scenery\World\Scenery folder

correct?

I think you must have edited the post while I was asking this question LOL  ;D


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: virtuali on August 07, 2010, 07:19:45 PM
Yes, that's correct.


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Longhornmaniac8 on August 07, 2010, 08:07:07 PM
Just wanted to stop by and say thank you for fixing this so quickly. You and your team have been incredibly proactive after the release, and that is the measure of a great developer. My post got lost since I posted mine right after this one was posted, but I just wanted to say this scenery has lived up to and exceeded my ridiculously high expectations.

Very, very well done! You and your team deserve a drink and a break!


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Dimon on August 08, 2010, 01:47:21 AM
Umberto,

I have completed several tests with these two new files and it needs to be said that new KDFW.bgl completely destroys all the ground textures in FedEx Ramp. When I replace it with an old file (KDFW.bgl) from the recent installer, all the textures returns to normal.

I completed this test several times to be pretty sure that it's not my mistake.

Thanks
Dmitriy


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: jerel2k10 on August 08, 2010, 02:23:30 AM
Umberto,

I have completed several tests with these two new files and it needs to be said that new KDFW.bgl completely destroys all the ground textures in FedEx Ramp. When I replace it with an old file (KDFW.bgl) from the recent installer, all the textures returns to normal.

I completed this test several times to be pretty sure that it's not my mistake.

Thanks
Dmitriy

I also noticed the scenery bleedthrough i.e. fsdt scenery not painting over the default scenery.   Sitting near 17R and when I spin around the user aircraft at certain views the FSDT scenery goes away and I can see the default scenery.   I am currently trying without the re-sized textures.  I want to do a test with the re-sized textures.   I am now curious if the problem exists in the new bgl files and/or the re-sized textures but I do not think it is the re-sized textures.


It appears the floating AI problem is fixed!


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Dimon on August 08, 2010, 02:34:41 AM
Again,

Once you replace new KDFW.bgl (that was attached above in this topic), with the old one that is included in recent installer, the problem goes away completely. I can easily adjust my AFCAD to 603 ft height and forget this forum unitl the new scenery is released.

The problem is that when new patch with gates marking and probably AES-update will show up, it will still contain this flawed KDFW.bgl file as well.

Thus, perhaps FSDT should look into this issue.


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Dimon on August 08, 2010, 02:36:41 AM
Resized texstures has nothing to do with this problem (I mean Fedex Ramp textures' dissapearance after new KDFW.bgl is installed)


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: virtuali on August 08, 2010, 08:18:07 AM
The new KFDW.bgl is surely correct, and it hasn't caused any texture problem. The issue is, by finally putting the scenery to the correct height, it might have exposed another problem, which is probably related to the surrounding meshe elevation. In FSX we have a custom mesh, it might be we need a similar one on FS9.


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Mike... on August 08, 2010, 10:49:57 AM
You have to wonder, was the change from 603ft to 607ft worth all this trouble? Looking at the airport diagram, there are lots of altitudes below 600ft, in fact, I see 607 once, 602, the rest is below or even well below.

So we have the "correct" height now, but overall, FS9's height had it closer to reality. If you can even compare FS9's flat airports to the real thing.

Default height, good flatten, forget about those four feet. By raising the airport, you're only going to increase the difference between airport elevation and surrounding terrain. Personally, I think we have enough plateaus and related problems in FS already.

IMHO.


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Dimon on August 08, 2010, 12:51:40 PM
I agree with Mike - simply adjust the AFCAD to 603 and revert to old files. It will save you a lot of time.


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: virtuali on August 08, 2010, 10:24:46 PM
You can obviously do what you want with your files. We'll try to fix it in the proper way, which means, having the correct real world altitude.

You might not like the reason but, it's also needed for our own ease of mantainance, since the FSX version has the default scenery set at the correct 607 feet height so, we would prefer having to deal with just one altitude (to ease keeping in sync the versions) which, incidentally, it's also the correct one.

Of course, if you want to fly the scenery while we fix it entirely, by all means, set your AFCAD to 603, and forget about those 4 feets...


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: Longhornmaniac8 on August 09, 2010, 12:42:33 AM
A very valid point, Umberto.

Would it be possible to post the original of the two files you posted? I am also having the bleedthrough issue, but I overwrote them instead of saving a backup.

Thanks!
Cameron


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: virtuali on August 09, 2010, 01:36:27 AM
Would it be possible to post the original of the two files you posted? I am also having the bleedthrough issue, but I overwrote them instead of saving a backup.

Uninstall the scenery, then reinstall, it will restore all the files as originally released.


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: jerel2k10 on August 09, 2010, 02:17:48 AM
I am still having a problem with scenery bleedthrough (seeing grass) through taxiways.   I copied the two attached files where they are suppose to go.   Checked the AFCAD and it is set at 607 feet.
I am little confused.


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: virtuali on August 09, 2010, 02:22:12 AM
I copied the two attached files where they are suppose to go

I already answered you about this, here:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=3345.msg28988#msg28988


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: jerel2k10 on August 09, 2010, 02:37:11 AM
I copied the files yesterday.  They are in the correct locations.   I was reading through the other posts and that is where I got a little confused.   Does the altitude on the AFCAD need adjustment ... currently 607?


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: virtuali on August 09, 2010, 10:30:12 AM
I was reading through the other posts and that is where I got a little confused.   Does the altitude on the AFCAD need adjustment ... currently 607?

If you use the KDFW.bgl we posted, you have to leave the AFCAD at 607. Some users reported problem in some areas with the new KDFW.bgl so, if you are seeing them too, don't use the posted KDFW.bgl, and put the AFCAD height to 603.


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: virtuali on August 09, 2010, 11:06:38 AM
I am still having a problem with scenery bleedthrough (seeing grass) through taxiways.

Usual question: you see this at a specific location ?

In any case, please don't confuse different issues: this thread and those fixes are supposed to fix the Floating AI on arrivals problem. They are not strictly related to textures bleeding which, instead, are usually related to conflicts with other sceneries.


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: AbqVlieger on August 31, 2010, 12:56:20 AM
I have been following this thread and I think that this is the proper one to post my question.  I have the floating AI issue but I also have the same problem with my aircraft.  Please let me know what I can do to fix the problem.  I have tried to follow this thread and have downloaded and installed the files mentioned above in this thread.  I have even used my vista control panel to delete the KDFW scenery and then downloaded 1.03.  I still have the same problem.  Any suggestions would be apprecieated.

I do have two screenshots however I do not know how to post pictures on this fourm.  All of my Aircraft, mine and AI, are "floating" about 3 feet above the runway.  When I leave the runway and turn on to the taxiway there is a loud thump and my aircraft seems to fall but when I go to spot view I am still floating.

FS9 with all service packs
Vista 64 bit

Ryan Jones


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: virtuali on August 31, 2010, 01:04:46 AM
There's no need to post a screenshot, if you have AI floating about 3 feets (it's exactly 4 ft), that's the altitude difference between the correct scenery (ours = 607 ft) and the default FS9 scenery (603 ft).

If you are still seeing the default elevation with the current version, it means another scenery is in conflict, most likely another AFCAD that was based on the default FS9 scenery.


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: AbqVlieger on September 01, 2010, 01:02:44 AM
Hello,

I did think of this but I can not find any duplicate AFCAD files for KDFW.  I am using the Scan AFD program to check for duplicate files and it only finds one.
"ap_kdfw.BGL"


Title: Re: Some AI is floating
Post by: AbqVlieger on September 01, 2010, 04:08:18 AM
Mr. Virtuali,

You were correct  ;D,
I read the FSX fourm and saw the same problem and I started thinking about what scenery that could be in conflict.  I did have Sim Flyers version about 4 years ago but had deleted it form my system.  It was not, however, removed from my FS9 scenery- to fix the floating problem I scrolled through my list and found the SimFlyer listing and deactivated it and now everything is beautiful.

Thank you for your patience- hopefully my mistake will help others with a simular problem.