FSDreamTeam forum

Developer's Backdoor => GSX Backdoor => Topic started by: MARCUS0010 on June 14, 2022, 12:04:22 am

Title: GSX level 3
Post by: MARCUS0010 on June 14, 2022, 12:04:22 am
Hi ,
 It would be great to have
1 : New sets of people for gsx  so you dont have to see Always the same people getiing on/off  on each flight .
2 : lavatory and clearing services
3: The possiblity to keep pilot and crew onbord  ( all low cost airlines  " pilots and crew"  have 3 to 6 flights a day and dont get off with the passagers )
4: More ground crew  buttom of the staires , top of the stairs and wings tips like in real life .

No need for a free update all work deserves to get  paid  and i am shure most of us will be happy to contribute to have a better and more real expérience in Gsx  .

Regards
Marco
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: DarrianCZE on June 30, 2022, 11:26:54 am
Completely agree!
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: fahdriyami on July 01, 2022, 12:45:45 am
Personally I would hope a GSX Level 3 would have AI driven passengers. Not just in terms of randomizing their appearance, but also in terms of their movement.

Now that developers are including interiors for their airports in MSFS, I would love to see passengers actually moving around in those terminals, and making their way to the jetway/bus, and into the plane, rather than just spawning at a jetway. I think this would only be possible efficiently with AI rather than something pre-programmed for each airport. But I'm no expert, so what do I know lol 😂

And why stop there? We are also seeing more and more airplane devs include full cabins in their planes. So it would be even cooler to see these passengers actually board and take their seats and be with you in flight. Moving around the cabin, eating, going to the lavatory, reading, cabin crew serving food and drinks, maybe even have a crying baby or two lol. There's just so much potential with MSFS.

In any case, I can't wait to see what's to come with a future GSX.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: virtuali on July 01, 2022, 10:22:04 am
Quote
Now that developers are including interiors for their airports in MSFS, I would love to see passengers actually moving around in those terminals, and making their way to the jetway/bus, and into the plane, rather than just spawning at a jetway.

For the MSFS version ( although the feature will fall back to P3D as well ), we added a new feature which we used in a couple of our airports ( KORD V2 and Basel ), which in GSX are called "Airport Walkers". Previously, it could only be used by us, since it required programming their path in the Python language, which is what most of GSX is written into. However, it wasn't possible for users to access it.

Now, with the MSFS version, in a way similar to the Passenger Walk-in path editor shown in the latest Preview we released yesterday, it will be possible for users to define paths that passengers will walk freely, as loops, independently from the GSX actual Boarding/Deboarding process.

This still requires lots of editing, but it's now available to users as well, with a graphic editor that can place waypoints that can also be 3D, so you might allow passengers to walk stairs or take elevators, if the airport you are enhancing has them.

Having something entirely automatic is another issue altogether. Keep in mind that, even in games that "looks" AI-based, like GTA or Cyberpunk, there's still behind the scene the concept of waypoints that tells the game what is a road and can be used by AI characters and what isn't. And there's the concept of "areas" as well, were AI might form in clusters, playing some kind of interaction animation, that's the most common ways to populate game environments like large cities with AI people.

However, in all these cases, the whole scenery is in complete control of the game developers and, regardless how large the map it is, is VERY limited in size compared to what MSFS has, if you add together all thousands of default airports and 3rd party add-ons as well, nobody could foreseeably place waypoints for walking characters everywhere, so we can only provide with the tools, but it will up to users and the community at large to enhance the airports they are interested in.

Surely, shortly after the release, we'll add all these things to our own airports. If 3rd party developers are smart, and realize how easier is to use these high-quality characters compared to how hard normally is to add them to an airport with any other method, they should start offer GSX profiles together with their airports.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: Justinthomas7 on July 02, 2022, 12:59:49 am
The main feature I'd be looking for is decouple pax boarding/deboarding from baggage loading/unloading. 
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: virtuali on July 02, 2022, 07:40:45 pm
The main feature I'd be looking for is decouple pax boarding/deboarding from baggage loading/unloading.

Of all the things GSX does, you consider separate passengers from baggage loading is the "main" one ? Nobody ever asked for it, in 10 years it has been out, I even checked all your forum posts, and there was nothing about it.

I'm sorry if I don't see lots of value in it, could you please explain why it would be useful ? Not that, I  think it will be very unlikely we'll do this change, surely not for release, because it would require massive changes in too many parts of the code, requiring months of troubleshooting and bugfixing, time that could be better spent to add much more interesting features, new services, new models, etc.

Instead, because we always listen when people DO post suggestions, we'll allow users to choose to Deboard Crew and Pilots or leave them on board in case of a turnaround, saving some time, because they won't have to exit the plane only to reenter shortly thereafter.

MANY users asked for it, so we'll add it, and in this case the fix was quite easy and reliable, because GSX was already coded to allow this, just it was only accessible to airplane code, not the normal GSX menus.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: Justinthomas7 on July 03, 2022, 03:32:33 am
Is this not a GSX level 3 thread?    Ie future expansion product with new features?  I must be mistaken and I regret making the suggestion with that hostile response.

On certain aircraft where refuelling and baggage loading/unloading cannot occur at the same time, this would allow more flexibility and ultimately more realistic as pax and baggage loading is not paired in real life either.   I didn't think it would be a big ask considering GSX will start pax boarding even if bag loading can't start due to refuelling.   
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: virtuali on July 04, 2022, 01:58:29 am
I must be mistaken and I regret making the suggestion with that hostile response.

Your only mistake is reading my reply as "hostile". Sure, you can post any kind of suggestion, and I replied that one was a bit small in value, but quite complex to make, so the cost/benefit ratio is very low. And I also asked you in which cases it could be useful, that's hardly an "hostile" attitude.

Quote
On certain aircraft where refuelling and baggage loading/unloading cannot occur at the same time, this would allow more flexibility and ultimately more realistic as pax and baggage loading is not paired in real life either. 

Which airplanes ? Why is done that way, exactly ? It's clearly not a very common procedure, and it surely goes against saving precious time so, there must be a sound reason.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: Captain Kevin on July 04, 2022, 02:50:08 am
Which airplanes ? Why is done that way, exactly ? It's clearly not a very common procedure, and it surely goes against saving precious time so, there must be a sound reason.
Here's a few ACAPS charts that illustrates this. Page 124 for the Boeing 747-400.
https://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/commercial/airports/acaps/747_4.pdf

Page 133 for the Boeing 767-300/-300ER.
https://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/commercial/airports/acaps/767_REV_I.pdf

Page 79 for the Boeing 777-200.
https://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/commercial/airports/acaps/777_23.pdf

Page 93 for the Boeing 787-9.
https://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/commercial/airports/acaps/787.pdf

Given that all four planes are primarily used for long-haul flights, the refueling takes the longest, and therefore would generally be started as soon as possible. The above charts would indicate that refueling is going on during cargo unloading and runs through cargo loading. Additionally, all four charts would indicate that the loading of the forward cargo hold starts long before passenger boarding starts. In the case of the 787, the chart would indicate that the forward and aft cargo holds are completely loaded long before passengers start boarding, as it is apparently bulk cargo that takes the longest. I should point out that the charts assume minimum turn time, and the airlines schedules would change the turn time accordingly. For instance, this video would seem to indicate that for this particular flight, the time the first jetway makes contact with the airplane to the time the last jetway is removed from the airplane is 1 hour 20 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWxIovt1nfI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWxIovt1nfI)
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: virtuali on July 04, 2022, 01:24:21 pm
Given that all four planes are primarily used for long-haul flights, the refueling takes the longest, and therefore would generally be started as soon as possible. The above charts would indicate that refueling is going on during cargo unloading and runs through cargo loading.

That's not what the OP asked. He asked to decouple baggage/cargo loading from Passenger loading, nowhere he asked about refueling and nowhere I said it couldn't be done, because refueling is ALREADY a separate procedure for GSX, while baggage/cargo and Passengers are both part of the single BOARDING/DEBOARDING procedure and that's why I said THIS would require a massive rewrite of the whole GSX logic.

Refueling and Loading cargo can be done in certain cases, depending which side the refuel is located, but it's mostly a matter of preventing conflicts between the vehicles, so it might be more feasible to do, but that's not what the OP asked.

Quote
Additionally, all four charts would indicate that the loading of the forward cargo hold starts long before passenger boarding starts. In the case of the 787, the chart would indicate that the forward and aft cargo holds are completely loaded long before passengers start boarding,

But that's only because in real-life the number of pallet is higher than GSX, which has a variable number of items, which never exceed 5 items so, it's unlikely cargo loading would take much longer than boarding 200+ passengers and, since they already work in parallel, the issue of having to start cargo loading because it will surely take longer than passenger is not happening in GSX.

That might change in the future, should we eventually made a product dedicated to cargo operation, with a more precise representation of the exact number of pallets, like we do with passengers, but it's not really useful in the context of how GSX currently work.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: Justinthomas7 on July 04, 2022, 04:43:34 pm
That's not what the OP asked. He asked to decouple baggage/cargo loading from Passenger loading, nowhere he asked about refueling

It was there in the second paragraph. Refuelling is the “why” I asked for the loading to be decoupled, due to certain situations where boarding or deboarding can’t occur until refuelling is complete or vice versa. 

I don’t have access to the sim at the moment but from memory, with the PMDG 747-8, you don’t get the refuelling truck until pax deboarding is complete, even though the baggage unloading was complete a long time ago.     I think also if you request fuel during boarding, you have to wait for the pax loading to be complete.  However if you are already refuelling and request boarding, It’s smart enough to load the pax and the bags will start when refuelling is complete. 

The problem is when it’s not smart and one action holds up the other, which is very unrealistic.  I know it’s a minor gripe, I’m surprised I was the first to bring it up.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: virtuali on July 04, 2022, 05:15:55 pm
It was there in the second paragraph. Refuelling is the “why” I asked for the loading to be decoupled, due to certain situations where boarding or deboarding can’t occur until refuelling is complete or vice versa. 

And that's not what I replied to. I only replied about the decoupling between cargo/luggage and passengers, that is difficult because they currently are part of the same service that is Boarding or Deboarding.

Decoupling Boarding/Deboarding from Refuel is a completely different thing, which is not affected by the ability to decouple Pax from Cargo/luggage *IN* the Deboarding/Boarding service.

Quote
I don’t have access to the sim at the moment but from memory, with the PMDG 747-8, you don’t get the refuelling truck until pax deboarding is complete, even though the baggage unloading was complete a long time ago

It depends by the SIDE the refueling point is configured. If it's on the Left, a long refuel will block passenger loading, while if it's on the right, it will block cargo loading. You must realize the main reason of these constraints is to prevent vehicles to clash into each other, mainly.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: Captain Kevin on July 05, 2022, 04:07:46 am
However if you are already refuelling and request boarding, It’s smart enough to load the pax and the bags will start when refuelling is complete.
In addition to what Umberto said, if the refueling point is on the left and you're using a jetway, you can have the passengers board during refueling AND have the cargo get loaded at the same time. Thus, if you time it right, you can have refueling and boarding completed at the same time.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: Justinthomas7 on July 05, 2022, 07:46:15 am
I don’t think you understand my issue.  Pax deboarding via jetway will block refuelling even after the baggage loading is complete.  Same issues occur on boarding, if you want to top up the fuel after the bags have been loaded, you have to wait until the pax have finished boarding even though there’s no vehicles left.  I stick with the default refuelling on the right
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: jgoggi on July 07, 2022, 08:07:04 am
Hi,
 I take the opportunity to once again ask for the "hand signal will be on the left/right" feature in MSFS, still missing in GSX for P3D.
Thanks.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: virtuali on July 07, 2022, 02:29:03 pm
I take the opportunity to once again ask for the "hand signal will be on the left/right" feature in MSFS, still missing in GSX for P3D.

The outmost priority now is to RELEASE GSX for MSFS, which already had A TON of way more important improvements that, since we are working at it 24/7, don't even have any time to explain.

There will be plenty of time to do these extremely minor procedural adjustments after the release.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: f_tony on July 07, 2022, 03:55:31 pm
I take the opportunity to once again ask for the "hand signal will be on the left/right" feature in MSFS, still missing in GSX for P3D.

The outmost priority now is to RELEASE GSX for MSFS, which already had A TON of way more important improvements that, since we are working at it 24/7, don't even have any time to explain.

There will be plenty of time to do these extremely minor procedural adjustments after the release.

I'm really very very glad that GSX for MSFS is near! Since the relaese of MSFS, about two years ago, I really haven't been able to fully enjoy the sim due to the absence of GSX. I was wondering if a range of price has already been decided and if the owners of GSX level 1 and 2 will be eligible for a discount. Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you the release date for your great product!
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: flyboy17 on July 10, 2022, 08:18:45 pm
One feature I think I would really look forward to is to have the option of pilot walk arounds simulated. I know it’s not much anybody would have thought of but actually I think it would be a really cool feature in the future.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: FireCapt on July 22, 2022, 12:32:38 am
 virtuali
will we be able to customize Pax loading for GA aircraft and helicopters?
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: virtuali on July 22, 2022, 03:45:47 pm
will we be able to customize Pax loading for GA aircraft and helicopters?

If you are referring to the MSFS version, we can't even start working on anything related to helicopters until they will appear *officially* in the game.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: Fighter2309 on August 10, 2022, 11:04:33 pm
However if you are already refuelling and request boarding, It’s smart enough to load the pax and the bags will start when refuelling is complete.
In addition to what Umberto said, if the refueling point is on the left and you're using a jetway, you can have the passengers board during refueling AND have the cargo get loaded at the same time. Thus, if you time it right, you can have refueling and boarding completed at the same time.

Old discussion but to be honest: Last time I flew on a A321, refueling, cargo-loading and boarding was going on at the same time. Fuel-truck below the right wing.
There's a lot going on at the same time however I really would love to have independent features available in GSX for more realistic ground ops.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: Fighter2309 on August 10, 2022, 11:07:58 pm
I am still looking for news about

- remote de-icing positions/feature
- self-driving pushback (is it possible?)
- tow-truck to change the aircraft-positions manually(or via path)
- emergency trucks/services announced a while back?
- cleaning/water cars etc?
- maintenance car?

Cant wait for GSX in MSFS!
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: virtuali on August 11, 2022, 01:32:10 pm
Cant wait for GSX in MSFS!

And that's precisely why there hasn't been any news about the *other* features you asked, because the only thing we worked on for the past year was exactly that: GSX for MSFS. AFTER it's out, we'll can start resuming work on new features.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: oxi on August 14, 2022, 04:27:00 am
Hi everyone
A question for users who have acquired GSX for previous simulators, will there be any kind of discount on the purchase of GSX for MSFS?

I can't wait to buy this wonderful tool to improve my simulator experience.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: SgtMav316 on August 17, 2022, 06:30:54 am
A discount would be nice, but seeing as it is not a upgrade to a current sim platform I wouldnt expect it. But again would be nice, seeing as I have had GSX from FSX and P3D both of which I no longer use! MSFS is just way above in detail than those other platforms! IF GSX L3 sets a new bar and can introduce some new features like fire and rescue to put out an engine fire when you have make those emergency landings or calling for the police to meet the aircraft on the tarmac to escort an unruly passenger off the aircraft which happens a lot more in this era! Those would be nice features to add just for the fun of seeing it going down!
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: avantime on August 17, 2022, 02:54:49 pm
If I can make just one wish for this product, it's that passengers and crew should always carry something - either a carry-on luggage, handbag or backpack. I've never seen a boarding or deboarding process IRL where passengers are carrying nothing, in GSX it's as if they're one of those NPCs strolling down the street in GTA. It has been like this since animated passengers were implemented in GSX Level 2.

The pilot model already has a carry-on, please use that animation for the cabin crew and passengers.

For illustrative purposes, even the British Prime Minister is carry something when he deboards an aircraft:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaSWlmqWQAMbo4x?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: virtuali on August 18, 2022, 03:12:57 pm
If I can make just one wish for this product, it's that passengers and crew should always carry something - either a carry-on luggage, handbag or backpack. I've never seen a boarding or deboarding process IRL where passengers are carrying nothing, in GSX it's as if they're one of those NPCs strolling down the street in GTA. It has been like this since animated passengers were implemented in GSX Level 2./quote]

We are obviously fully aware of that and, of course, several GSX passengers carry something. Just not *all* of them.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: 737NGX on August 18, 2022, 05:23:01 pm
Regarding De-ice. It would be really nice if it would be possible to request de-icing on a de-ice platform, rather than having to do it at the gate as some countries/airports have designated platforms for this. Especially in northern-Europe is this practice common.
It would also be nice to have a Linde P250 model option for the baggage trucks, as those are extremely common in Europe (they have roofs etc. more practical for winter/bad wx etc.)
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: avantime on August 19, 2022, 06:47:40 am
We are obviously fully aware of that and, of course, several GSX passengers carry something. Just not *all* of them.

If you can please make that figure to something like 95% (cabin crew should be 100%) that would be great. Looking at the how-to video from FSElite "several GSX passengers" looks like 5-10%. I'm assuming that the passengers all share the same walking animation, so giving them carry-ons and have them use the pilot walk animation (as the pilot does have a carry-on luggage) shouldn't be too difficult.

Again GSX looks great (and it has been since L2 in P3D) but this particular issue is really getting me triggered. I actually raised this exact same issue 4 years ago
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,17993.msg125672.html#msg125672 (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,17993.msg125672.html#msg125672)
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: virtuali on August 19, 2022, 06:56:24 am
I'm assuming that the passengers all share the same walking animation, so giving them carry-ons and have them use the pilot walk animation (as the pilot does have a carry-on luggage) shouldn't be too difficult.

They don't. Each and every passenger has its own specific animation, with multiple variations, and since each passenger doesn't have the same physical size, means each carry-on must be individually adapted to all animations, for all passengers.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: avantime on August 23, 2022, 06:16:08 am
Quote
That's unfortunate. GSX is a fantastic addon and I hope you guys will make this issue a long-term development goal, but it appears to be more difficult than I originally thought.

it's difficult in the way it will take some time, but it's not something exactly "long-term". We need to update all passenger animations anyway, for a groundbreaking new feature that will arrive in a free update in the following months.
Title: Re: GSX level 3
Post by: ArslanTuregun on August 23, 2022, 12:41:20 pm
Hi,
Just a little suggestion/question for P3D version.

Is it possible to have ???

1- One male flight attendant so that Norman of FSLabs wouldn't get offended :p
2- Pants option for female flight attendants.

Cheers,
Arslan