FSDreamTeam forum
FS9 support => JFK for FS9 => Topic started by: cds001 on January 21, 2010, 09:35:52 pm
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Hello all,
first of all congratulations to your excellent scenery which I was able to enjoy for some time. However, it seems that I have run into serious trouble with the BGL manager module after having replaced my harddrive where my FS9 installation resides. I had to replace the drive with a larger model and used O&O Drive Image in the process, creating a 1:1 copy of the old partition.
After completion I started FS9 and was asked to re-activate my installation of KJFK. This went like the first activation I had to perform right after the initial installation. However, ever since, the scenery doesn't show in FS at all. Although the BGL manager reports it as active, it doesn't actually allow any object - none of the buildings or terminal objects is displayed. The scenery remains in exactly the state it is when it is NOT activated.
I then tried to reinstall the product using the latest installer from your website, but with no success. I then uninstalled it, and again reinstalled it. Again: no change. The activation of the scenery manager remained intact during all of this. Only after I manually deleted the registry entries where the activation is stored, I had to reactivate the scenery. But still: although being installed and activated, I cannot get the scenery to show!
What should I do now? By now, I used 3 activations trying to get it working and am running out of ideas.
Regards
Christoph Schmidt
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However, ever since, the scenery doesn't show in FS at all. Although the BGL manager reports it as active, it doesn't actually allow any object - none of the buildings or terminal objects is displayed. The scenery remains in exactly the state it is when it is NOT activated.
No. This is NOT the same state as if not activated. When the scenery is not activated, it will NOT just disappear: it will run in Trial mode, for 5-6 minutes, with all the objects available.
So, if you just don't see the scenery, you don't have an activation problem.
The activation of the scenery manager remained intact during all of this.
Which only confirms is. Your problem is not related in any way to activation.
What should I do now? By now, I used 3 activations trying to get it working and am running out of ideas
No, you haven't used any of your activations, unless you changed hardware each time. Even if you remove the activation from the registry, it doesn't mean you have consumed one. Even if it has to go online again to confirm it, it doesn't mean is taking one activation because, if you have the same hardware, it will not use another activation.
However, as I've said, you don't have an activation problem.
Also, since you see the Addon Manager, you don't have a problem or a conflict (like antivirus, old version, etc )that is preventing it to run, because it IS running.
So, the only issue left, is that is something that is not related in any way to the Addon Manager. For example, a problem in your Scenery Library. Is the JFK scenery listed in the Scenery Library ?
If not, it means something happened during the installation like, for example, an error in your scenery.cfg that prevented the installer to modify it. Which also might resulted in an aborted install, which is also another possible reason why you don't see the scenery.
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Hi,
I think I have to correct my earlier post a bit. I can see the following scenery objects: the trains moving in the air, trucks and cars driving around, the taxiway system, PAPI lights on the runways, the runways themselves etc. The AI aircraft follow the taxiways and lineup exactly on the runway, so I guess that the AFCAD belongs to your scenery (if the default layout differs in location from yours; if not, then it could also be the default layout I see)
I do not see any building or the tarmac of the aprons. Obviously my earlier post sounded as if I don't see anything at all, but this is not true.
The scenery is listed in my scenery.cfg, is set to active and is reported as activated by the Scenery Manager. I even moved it to the highest priority with no success. Would an exclude-scenery of another scenery be able to cause this?
Best regards
Christoph Schmidt
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The scenery is listed in my scenery.cfg, is set to active and is reported as activated by the Scenery Manager. I even moved it to the highest priority with no success. Would an exclude-scenery of another scenery be able to cause this?
Yes, an exclude from another scenery might exclude it. Also, check the Scenery Complexity setting for not being too low and, don't set the Autogen to zero.
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Hi again,
I double-checked everything in my installation and can rule out the influence of an exclude from another scenery. I have taken some screenshots so that you can see what I mean. I disabled EVERY other scenery I have except for the default world and UTUSA.
Is this behaviour to be expected from the scenery manager if it ran the scenery in demo mode?
Kind regards
Christoph
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Is this behaviour to be expected from the scenery manager if it ran the scenery in demo mode?
Of course not! What kind of demo would be ?? The Trial mode is exactly like the full scenery, just that runs for 5 minutes at time.
Now, can you please try to simply restart from scratch and do this:
- Uninstall PHNL
- Reinstall PHNL.
- Check the scenery is being added to the Scenery Library. If it doesn't, try adding it manually, then exit from FS9, restart it, and try again.
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I tried that (for the 3rd time), but of course it doesn't work. I have, however, temporarily removed the bglman.dll and its dat-files from the modules folder of FS2004 and guess what: the scenery looks exactly the same. This is what I meant when asking if the scenery manager could render the scenery in this way. Yes, it can! Apparently the Scenery Manager isn't working at all. Although it reports the scenery as activated, it doesn't even bother to correctly display it.
My installation remains in exactly the same state that a demo scenery would after the trial period has expired. Any visual objects except for a few disappear. What is going here? It worked fine before I copied the entire FS9 from one harddrive to another.
Are any other files needed to correctly display the scenery besides from bglman.dll? I think I remember having seen an esellerate.dll in the modules folder at some point, but it isn't there now. There must be an explanation for this. Simply copying the sim to another drive cannot render your scenery useless, can it? It is, by the way, the only scenery where I have these problems. All others work fine (although JFK is the only FSDT-scenery I own).
Christoph
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I have, however, temporarily removed the bglman.dll and its dat-files from the modules folder of FS2004 and guess what: the scenery looks exactly the same.
That doesn't prove anything. It just proves that having or not the Addon Manager installed doesn't change anything.
Now, let's do it again, step by step, please reply to all questions.
- Which OS you are using ?
- In which folder are you installing FS9 ?
- Have you installed the FS9.1 update ?
- Now, please, Uninstall PHNL again.
- Launch FS9, check the Scenery is NOT listed in the Scenery Library anymore. If there's still an entry for it, remove it manually.
- Reinstall PHNL.
- Launch FS9, check if the Scenery IS listed in the Scenery Library. If it's not, ADD IT manually, then exit
- Restart FS9, check you see the Scenery.
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OK, then. Here we go:
- I use Windows XP SP3 with latest updates
- VGA is a GeForce 9800GT and I have 3GB of RAM
- FS9 is installed to F:\FS2004
I uninstalled the scenery and had to manually remove the scenery from scenery.cfg. The directory itself was deleted from the uninstaller.
I started FS2004 and was presented with the default KJFK
I reinstalled JFK, started FS2004 and --- are seeing your scenery again!
Well done! Don't ask me why, but I didn't start FS9 after having uninstalled and before reinstalling it. Folks, this makes a BIG difference.
Thank you very much for taking your time and enabling me to enjoy the scenery again. Rest assured that I will fly into KJFK right away!!!
Cheers
Christoph
PS: I'm thinking about buying PHNL now that this is solved, so once again: well done!
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Hello again,
after successfully having activated the scenery a couple of weeks ago, I completed my last long haul flight into KJFK only to find that the scenery wasn't showing again. It was the same behaviour as last time when I wrote about it here. Apart from the fact that having no airport whatsoever after an 8 hour flight, I was especially annoyed by the fact that the activation process last time did open the scenery, but that a few days later it was as if I hadn't bought it.
Guys, what is going on here? It's now a fact that the BGL manager doesn't work on my system. It opens up the scenery on one day, then doesn't show it on another. This can't possibly be the way you intend to do business, right? Maybe it works on hundreds of other computer, but apparently not on mine.
Please don't advise me to uninstall and reinstall until I see what I paid for. I already did that about a dozen times. I expect your product to work once it is activated and keep that way. I really look forward to your ideas as to what we will try next.
Regards
Christoph
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Guys, what is going on here? It's now a fact that the BGL manager doesn't work on my system
You error is to assume that it's the Addon Manager that doesn't work. From all your previous messages, you NEVER had a problem with it, since you always said you saw its menu, and it correctly show the scenery as Active.
I expect your product to work once it is activated and keep that way. I really look forward to your ideas as to what we will try next.
As I've already explained in all previous messages, you DON'T HAVE AN ACTIVATION PROBLEM! If the scenery lose its activation, for any reasons, it will NOT just disappear: it will run in Trial mode, for 5-6 minutes, with all the objects available.
If you just don't see the scenery, but you SEE the Addon Manager menu, then you don't have an activation problem.
If you had an Addon Manager problem, you wouldn't see the scenery, but neither the Addon Manager menu.
If you see the Addon Manager menu, and you don't see any scenery, not even in Trial mode ( running for 5-6 minutes in full ), than your problem is not realated in ANY way to activation, registration, or compatibility with the Addon Manager on your system.
In fact, when you had the problem the other time, it was NOT the Addon Manager, at all. The problem was related in some way to the scenery.cfg because, as you said yourself, you had to manually remove it after uninstalling the scenery, which is not normal. And, of course, IS NOT related in any way to the Addon Manager.
So, most likely, if you are still in the same situation now, which is the Addon Manager WORKS, that shows the scenery as "Active", but you don't see any scenery, than it's surely another problem with your scenery.cfg. If it has been corrupted in some way, usually because of hand editing, or because another installer for another product has created a problem, than it might happen exactly what you are describing.
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Thanks for your quick reply.
Well, if it's not the scenery manager or the activation itself, there isn't really much left that could spoil the fun. I edited the scenery.cfg by hand to see whether the bglman.dll still opens the scenery. If I understand you correctly, it shouldn't. But it does: I moved the scenery entry [Area.xxx] 3 spots up in sequence, saved the file and started the sim. The scenery keeps showing.
What exactly does bglman.dll expect to find? A specific scenery name or directory? What if I moved the scenery to another directory, edited scenery.cfg accordingly and started FS9? I probably won't do that, but I am trying to find out which of my actions might be the cause. There must be something going on here then that is causing this.
Regards
Christoph
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What exactly does bglman.dll expect to find? A specific scenery name or directory? What if I moved the scenery to another directory, edited scenery.cfg accordingly and started FS9?
It doesn't expect anything different that what FS9 itself is expecting.
Meaning, the scenery path should point to the place where the scenery files really are and, most important, the file shouldn't have any syntax errors, which FS9 itself might just disregard, but if the Addon Manager finds an error, it will not find the scenery, and will not show it. A syntax error, for example, might be duplicate Area numbers, or wrong comments, or manually disabled areas with not standard names, etc.
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Ok, understood. But there is one thing that keeps bothering me: if it really was a faulty scenery.cfg, then I shouldn't see ANYTHING, right? But I see parts of your scenery, even if I have these problems. I always see the trains and ground vehicles moving, the taxiway markings and the runways. As long as they come from some BGL within the installation directory and not from another directory, this should prove that FS9 knows the location of the scenery from scenery.cfg and is able to show those BGLs that seem to be unaffected from the influence of bglman.dll.
How come that parts of the scenery always show and others don't? If FS9 didn't know the scenery at all, I would see the default scenery from Microsoft, right? But what I see is definitely your work.
Oh, and by the way: I moved the scenery to another location within my geographical directory structure, edited scenery.cfg accordingly and still see the scenery. I still look for that action that "resets" the scenery.
Regards
Christoph
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As long as they come from some BGL within the installation directory and not from another directory, this should prove that FS9 knows the location of the scenery from scenery.cfg and is able to show those BGLs that seem to be unaffected from the influence of bglman.dll.
As I've said:
the file shouldn't have any syntax errors, which FS9 itself might just disregard, but if the Addon Manager finds an error, it will not find the scenery, and will not show it
Which means FS9 is more tolerant to problems (which are problems nevertheless) in the scenery.cfg, and is probably trying to figure out the scenery location, even if the syntax is not absoutely correct. For example, I think FS9 allows for C++ styled comments ( those beginning with // ), which are not legal in an .INI file ( the scenery.cfg IS an .INI file, just with a .cfg extension ), because it use its own custom parsing method, while the Addon Manager uses the official Windows .INI parser, which means only semi-colons are allowed in a comment. That's just an example, but there might be others.
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I think I found something: I sometimes use a Freeware Scenery Editor that uses lower cases throughout the scenery.cfg. The area-section therefore is written [area.001] instead of the original [Area.001] with a leading capital. As soon as I replace the lower case with the upper case writing (use Area.378 instead of area.378 in my case), it works! This even works if I only use the original upper case writing for the KJFK scenery and leave all other area.xxx with lower cases.
This in my view shows that both of us are right: you assumed a problem with my scenery.cfg and are right (sort of). I assumed a problem with your activation process and are apparently also right (sort of). It looks as if your activation software desperately looks for an entry beginning with a capital A and doesn't accept lower case leading a's in the section number. That to me is not really a bug but short-sighted programming. I suggest you correct bglman.dll so that it finds the scenery even if the writing is [area.001].
Of course, you can prove me wrong, but I am quite sure because I can reproduce the behaviour.
Regards
Christoph
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This in my view shows that both of us are right: you assumed a problem with my scenery.cfg and are right (sort of).
Not "sort of": you HAD a problem with the scenery.cfg. Something that FS9 could deal with, but it was a deviation from the standard format nonetheless.
I assumed a problem with your activation process and are apparently also right (sort of).
As I've said, this doesn't have anything to do with the activation. Activation was never lost. The reasons why the Addon Manager needs to check the scenery.cfg, it's because it needs to go into "do nothing" mode, if there's no scenery installed, otherwise you would be bugged with Trial messages just by flying the scenery area, even if you never had installed that scenery in the first place, just because its location is the same of a scenery known to the Addon Manager.
That to me is not really a bug but short-sighted programming. I suggest you correct bglman.dll so that it finds the scenery even if the writing is [area.001]
You are the first one reporting this, in the 5 years the Addon Manager has been out...and of course, the short-sighted programming, started in your freeware utility, which decided to *deviate* from the FS9 naming convention. When working over Flight sim config files, it's best not to assume anything, and write it back everything EXACTLY as it was.
I'm sure we would get many complains, if our installers changed the casing of the scenery.cfg section names.
However, we'll fix it for sure, because it's trivial enough to do.
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Hi,
we now could dive into an academic discussion whether "activation" means only the decision of a rightful proof of purchase and the sequential allowing of the scenery to be displayed. I still agree that in this sense activation was never lost - that's exactly what I was told from your module.
But since the scenery didn't show up, I still regard that as a fault of the activation process as a whole - even if the ultimate reason was in the tampering of my scenery.cfg by a third-party tool. That's because this is such an obvious source of error to rule out that it is kind of strange you didn't do it in the first place. I do a bit of programming myself, and my search routines aim to find both character types - just to make sure.
Your indication that you're "sure we would get many complains, if our installers changed the casing of the scenery.cfg section names" reads a bit irritating, because that was never my point. The question to me would rather be if some of the previous complaints from other users about sceneries not showing up could ultimately tracked down to a similar problem. Most users do not perform a systematic error search, so they simply wouldn't know, would they?
However, I am glad to hear that our little conversation leads to the improvement of your Addon Manager. Does that mean tha there will be an updated installer so I could continue to use my Scenery Manager?
Regards,
Christoph
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Your indication that you're "sure we would get many complains, if our installers changed the casing of the scenery.cfg section names" reads a bit irritating, because that was never my point.
Which doesn't change that fact, that we *would* get complains, if we did that. That's a fact, and nobody would have accepted if we state that an another product that might have been fooled by that, was just because it wasn't smartly programmed, in case we broke it by doing that.
The question to me would rather be if some of the previous complaints from other users about sceneries not showing up could ultimately tracked down to a similar problem. Most users do not perform a systematic error search, so they simply wouldn't know, would they?
I assure you are the first one reporting it.
There was only ONE another case of "seeing the Addon Manager, but not the scenery", that happened if there was a duplicate AFCAD, or a duplicate area of the same scenery (in this case, FS9 will just not show anything), and it was always fixed that way, but it happened very rarely.
Usually 99% of the times, it's the Addon Manager not loading (thus not showing up) because it has been killed by the antivirus, the other 1% was duplicate areas, yours is the one and only exception.
I don't recall anyone being left with an unsolved case of "seeing the Addon Manager, but not the scenery", until now.
However, I am glad to hear that our little conversation leads to the improvement of your Addon Manager. Does that mean tha there will be an updated installer so I could continue to use my Scenery Manager?
The Addon Manager has been ALREADY updated yesterday night, just a couple of *hours* after your last report. The fact that you were the only one reporting it, doesn't mean it's not as important as any other bug to be fixed.
See the other not-so-apparent aspect of our sales method ? Since we offer a Trial version, it's in our best interest to fix every possible problem that is being found, because having a more reliable Trial version, will result in more sales.
You'll get it either by reinstalling the scenery (thanks to the self-update installer), or by downloading the Stand-Alone Addon Manager for FS9.
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Very nice to hear! Will update my installation right away.
Thank you for being so patient with me and sorry for being rude at times.
Kind regards
Christoph