FSDreamTeam forum
Products Support => Mesh for MSFS => Topic started by: Fiorentoni on September 05, 2021, 03:55:37 pm
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Hello,
since the new world update for D A CH apparently includes new mesh data for CH and probably changes other things, and since you probably got to test the beta version of that world update by now:
Is the Switzerland mesh still compatible after tuesday's upcoming release of the WU?
If no, will there be an update from you coming with the world update? If again no, should I uninstall your mesh until your update arrives so it doesn't crash the sim or anything?
Thank you,
Raphael
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There's hasn't been any beta for World Update 6, which means:
- We don't know if there might be any problems between our mesh and the Swiss mesh that comes with WU6.
- We don't know if there are differences in coverage, resolution, performances, etc.
Something we didn't like with Switzerland in general, is the Bing images which were available in MSFS until now, were INACCURATE, with lots of misalignment between the Autogen buildings and the underlying photoreal scenery ( easily seen in the Gotthard pass area ). This made our mesh ( which is 100% accurate ) to not look as good as it could be, because of the underlying Bing images were in several places not properly aligned, not even with the autogenerated buildings, as if two different data sources were used. The problem could be seen even by going on Bing Maps with a browser, so it wasn't MSFS's fault, it was Bing data which was inaccurate in this area.
From the preview images that has been released, it seems the Bing images has been improved so, hopefully, we should see the same improvements in WU6, which might even result in our mesh looking better.
- If you are referring to the sim crashing with our Swiss mesh, as explained in many other posts, the problem has never been our mesh to begin with. The problem was caused by a BUG in Sim Update 5, resulting in some products in the Marketplace not working, while the same, identical version bought outside the Marketplace worked perfectly fine. It might be caused by encryption, since that's the only difference between files on downloaded from the Marketplace and regular scenery files like the ones sold on our site.
Microsoft still hasn't figured it out why this happens so, as a temporary fix, they asked us if it was ok to publish an update on the Marketplace without using encryption, and we agreed to that. The update has been released TODAY so, hopefully:
- The crashes caused by a bug in the sim not properly handling encrypted products should be fixed.
- Even if there was no Beta testing for WU6, MAYBE some of the MS Marketplace testers managed to try the Mesh together with the upcoming WU6, but that's just speculation. We'll only know for sure tomorrow.
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Thank you for you answer. I removed it for now since I am not in the mood for any CTDs... I have to try the update itself first with the essential addons.
I'd appreciate if anyone let's me know here that the mesh works fine with the new WU, then I'll gladly reinstall :)
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So, has there been an update? Or does it work flawlessly?
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Anyone?
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Hello,
I also wonder about the purchase of this mesh and its compatibility with the WU Switzerland
thank you for your feedback
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Hi - since World Update 7 I get terrible stutters in VR & 2D when flying in the alps and having your mesh mode installed (i9 10900, RTX3080). No stutters without, but the terrain morphing is completely destroying the immersion as we all know...
I read in the official forum that most mesh addons have the same issue after WU7 (except for ORBX meshes, but they were obviously heavily involved in WU7...see thread "Stutters and freezes after World Update 7 with third-parts mesh (DEM)")
Do you plan to release an update? Thanks for the feedback.
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I read in the official forum that most mesh addons have the same issue after WU7 (except for ORBX meshes, but they were obviously heavily involved in WU7...)
The OrbX mesh is not working better because OrbX was involved.
It's likely because uses a very different method ( CGL vs Heightmaps most other mesh uses ) to do meshes which has other drawbacks, such the fact that when you install a mesh for some area, it will take over *any* other mesh AND photoreal scenery for a very large area that mesh resides is so, for example, if we did the same with Switzerland, you would be prevented to use any mesh for Italy or Austria together with it.
Also, the CGL method is completely undocumented and files are generated directly in binary format by unofficial tools, while the Heightmaps method we use is fully documented and files are compiled by the official SDK.
So, it seems the real problem is, something that was completely supported an documented in the SDK, is now having issues with the sim update, while the unofficial method for some reason is unaffected. Which shouldn't happened in the first place, since WU7 was supposed to be a scenery only update.
Do you experirence the same and is it planned to release an update? Thanks for the feedback.
We'll check this but, if the scenery worked fine before, and it got worse with the update, it's not as if we could do much about it. Nothing has changed in the SDK regarding Heightmaps in WU7 and files are 100% SDK compliant so, our only option is to reporting it to Microsoft.
However, something HAS changed in relationship with Heightmaps with the recently released Sim Update 8, so I'll sure to check it out and see if, maybe, recompiling with the latest build might improve it.
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Thanks for the swift reply and the elaborated explanation. Your mesh is a real game changer for flying VFR in Switzerland and having it un-installed is a great shame.... :'(
Thanks for looking into it, very much appreciated.
And by the way - if you would release a mesh covering the entire alps ("...for a very large area that mesh resides is so") I would be the first one to buy it! :-)
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I've just made a short video with the Sim Update 8 Beta:
Yes, there has been a couple of stutters at 0:14 and 1:08 but, they don't seem to be much different than it used to be. Do you see something different/worse ?
The fps counter shows everything mostly "green", and VRAM usage is very low, all considering ( about 3.2 GB ). I'm running at Ultra with JUST the OBJECTS LOD set to 100 ( which is unrelated to terrain ). Do you have the Landmarks POIs visibility enabled ? I do recall some user finding they have some impact on stuttering, and the CH Mesh has quite a few of them.
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Thanks for the video. If you fly from Samedan towards Davos - so heavily populated with summits and in rather close proximity - I get tons of stutters (similar to the ones you experienced in your video but much more frequent and longer) - before WU7 this was definitely not case...
No POI displayed....I'm Swiss ;-)
You say you are using SU8 beta - probably it has been resolved in the meantime? (Im not a beta tester)
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I just tested it with SU8, unfortunately still heavy stuttering - with empty community folder and deleted rolling cache - can you @Virtuali try to start a flight at Landwasser-Viadukt and report on your experience?
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I also have heavy stuttering and FPS drops to 1. I had to remove the Switzerland MESH. Now I can fly again at least... :-(
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I've just discovered that I had FSDream mesh in both my community folder and official packages.
Now that I have both removed I now longer get the non stop stuttering I experienced post SU8 over the alps.
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I also had very heavy stuttering making the sim unusable over Zurich and had to remove the Switzerland mesh. Yesterday my test flight in Zurich was perfect. My version was not bought from the marketplace.
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I purchased FSDreamteam Switzerland mesh in the MSFS marketplace quite a while ago.
It worked well for a period of time.
But now I cannot fly anywhere in Switzerland due to extremely heavy stutters.
I have never seen stutters anywhere near this bad, they are extreme.
No place other than Switzerland has any stutters at all.
I removed this mesh and now there are no stutters in Switzerland, none!
It's night and day.
I would say for MSFS, the Switzerland mesh sold in the MSFS marketplace right now is broken, and unusable. At least for me.
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I also had very heavy stuttering making the sim unusable over Zurich and had to remove the Switzerland mesh. Yesterday my test flight in Zurich was perfect. My version was not bought from the marketplace.
We you using the 10 m or the 20 meters version ?
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Umberto, did you report it to Microsoft? For me even the 20m doesnt make much of difference.
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Umberto, did you report it to Microsoft? For me even the 20m doesnt make much of difference.
Of course we have but, we haven't heard back from them. Since the problem has affect basically all 3rd party meshes and it's by no means specific to FSDT, I'm sure somebody will eventually look at it.
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Great, many thanks!
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I can report a complete solving of my stutters in Switzerland mesh. 100% of the time since WU7 I had really bad stutters in all flights from LSPU (Munster) to LSZS (Samedan). 0% of the time this happened with Swiss mesh uninstalled.
Due to the sounds during the stuttering, I investigated changing the Sounds in MSFS Options General Options, Sounds, Main Device and Communications Device. As we know this option was changed in WU7 and quick cures were discussed day one on the offiicial MSFS forum to reset these two Device options.
However, a simple reset did not cure stuttering in the mountains using mesh. Although it did help with sounds in general.
I no longer have the problem. I boot up a flight using FLY from MSFS main page. Change from my normal sounds settings to Default in both Main and Communications selection window. Then back to my normal sounds option (in my case Realtec), then back to Default again. This may seem like a lot of switching but it takes just a few seconds.
After I do that there are 0 stutters flying over any mountains way down low anywhere in Switzerland on my lowly system using payware Swiss mountain airports (this is an extreme test). There just won't be anymore stutters at all unless I close MSFS and reboot MSFS back up. Then I have to do it all over again.
So it's 15 seconds of this routine, for hours of stutter free flying.
I have repeated this test quite a few times. It always stutters if I don't change options. It never stutters when I do the above.
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I no longer have the problem. I boot up a flight using FLY from MSFS main page. Change from my normal sounds settings to Default in both Main and Communications selection window. Then back to my normal sounds option (in my case Realtec), then back to Default again. This may seem like a lot of switching but it takes just a few seconds.
Thanks for the report, this is very interesting. It confirms the scenery as such doesn't have any problems, so it looks like something weird happens in the interaction between the sim and the Windows audio drivers.
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@Fielder
do I understand correct?:
so you avoid the stutters of the Mesh by accepting that the sound after yr to and fro switching in the settings is at default when flying the Mountains, which is loudspeakers only, and you give up the communication via headset for the ATC?
That is not a good solution I'd say.
Tks for clarification from yr side order to fully understand form my side.
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Interesting approach - unfortunately didn't do the trick for me, still have the same amount of stutters unfortunately. Did this workaround work for others?
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Yep having the same problem when Switzerland mesh is installed sound breaks and severe stuttering occurs over a wide area in Europe.
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Yep having the same problem when Switzerland mesh is installed sound breaks and severe stuttering occurs over a wide area in Europe.
As reported by the other user, who said acting on the sound fixed the problem for him, it's seems to be the opposite: it's the sound that is affecting the scenery, not the scenery affecting the sound.
This clearly started with SU8, there wasn't the slightest problem before, and nothing in the SDK has changed in the way these meshes are done. And, it's not affecting just our mesh, but each and every mesh made with terraforming rectangles which, incidentally, it's the ONLY officially supported way to create mesh sceneries.
The other way (.CGL terrain), which is made entirely with undocumented information and reverse engineering, can possibly be used in other areas, but it's really not suitable for Switzerland, because:
- the MINIMUM coverage is 600x600 km, that is double the size of the whole country, so we would go deep into neighboring countries, conflicting with multiple default and add-on mesh products that already exists for those countries, and the way the .CGL method works, only ONE tile ( 600 km wide minimum ) can exists in a given place, so that's not feasible.
- the maximum resolution is 20m. this won't be a problem per-se but, there's the additional problem that, if an equal nominal resolution mesh is available in Bing ( regardless of its quality, that's why I said "nominal" ), you won't be able to see the local mesh UNLESS you turn off Online data, losing satellite images and photogrammetry.
So, the only case in which a .CGL mesh might be useful, is in case of larger countries, not surrounded by other countries, namely large islands, for which no better mesh is available on Bing maps, that's why OrbX used this method for New Zealand, but it really cannot be applied to Switzerland, or any other country in Europe, since they are way smaller and bordering to each other.
The only possible ways to solve this problem would be:
- Asobo finding the bug with Terraforming Rectangles which was introduced with SU8, which is causing many issues to each and every 3rd party mesh using this method which, again, is the only officially documented in the SDK, even if it wasn't strictly designed for large areas, is STILL the ONLY officially documented method in the SDK to do a mesh.
- Asobo documenting the .CGL methods and/or offering some official tools in a future SDK, perhaps removing some of its current limitations which makes this method unfeasible for smaller countries bordering many others.
One way of the other, if a better way comes with a future SDK, we'll sure update the scenery to support it.
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The problem with Swiss mesh is nowhere near as bad as it used to be as I reported above.
But now I have completely eliminated all stutters (flying with Swiss mesh from LSPU Munster to the gigantic Lake Geneva (near Geneva LSGG), this is a 40 minute flight: not one single stutter. With DEV mode FPS monitor on, there was not one black line appearing in the mainthread color bar the whole flight. Smooth as glass. Before doing the step below there were problems on that f flight.
This may not work for everyone (it may turn their sound off), but it works for me.
Fly along in Swiss mesh regions, if a stutter happens that also includes a sound oddity, then Task Manager, Background Process, Windows Audio Device Graph Isolation: right mouse click End Task. Now the problem instantly disappears completely on my flight. Until I reboot the computer which brings back that process. So, I just end that task again in task manager.