FSDreamTeam forum
Products Support => GSX Support FSX/P3D => Topic started by: Terblanche on January 09, 2020, 08:30:29 pm
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Could we please have the option back where we select the direction of the pushback BEFORE we release the parking brakes ...? The logic of selecting the direction AFTER the parking brake is released simply doesn't make sense because I believe the ground crew would very much like to know the pushback procedure BEFORE you release the parking brakes.
Thanks.
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+1
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The current option to select the direction after brakes are released is a highly welcomed improvement for people who fly on Vatsim or IVAO. Ground controllers expect you to move as soon as they give you the pushback clearance. The old method (i.e., selection of the direction before the tug was connected) was cumbersome for flying online, as you wasted some more minutes until the push could commence. This often resulted in ground controllers asking why you are not moving. So, I would opt to stick with the new option.
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tell me if i'm wrong, but i think you misunderstood the request ... i think what he suggests is push pushes into place under the planes, but they ask us to release the parking brake only after choosing the direction of the push back .. and I'm enough for this idea too, so +1 :)
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But how should GSX then know when to ask for the direction? ???
Normally, I only get the direction when I ask for the pushback clearance and not earlier. And this brings me back to my point made earlier: I am supposed to move as soon as I get the clearance. Of course we could estimate a certain direction but this will not help you when other traffic is blocking the apron and you get suddenly cleared in a direction opposite to your expectation.
The current way is simply perfect for flying online and the mechanism plays so nicely with the ATSU flow of the FSLabs Airbus. So I can frankly not see any benefit from reverting back to the old way. But this is just my opinion as a FSLabs user and online flyer.
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The current way is simply perfect for flying online and the mechanism plays so nicely with the ATSU flow of the FSLabs Airbus. So I can frankly not see any benefit from reverting back to the old way. But this is just my opinion as a FSLabs user and online flyer.
Exactly. This was suggested here, and we always listen to users suggestions.
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The current way is simply perfect for flying online and the mechanism plays so nicely with the ATSU flow of the FSLabs Airbus. So I can frankly not see any benefit from reverting back to the old way. But this is just my opinion as a FSLabs user and online flyer.
Exactly. This was suggested here, and we always listen to users suggestions.
Ag asseblief ... VATSIM or no VATSIM, you ask for clearance any time when YOU are ready and know exactly what your intentions are regarding push back and Ground Control will not rush you into a stupo. The ground crew will not ask you to release the parking brake and THEN ask you what you want to do because they too would like to know what's your intentions before you release the parking brake ...
"We always listen to users (sic) suggestions" ........ your sense of humor is hysterical ;D
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"We always listen to users (sic) suggestions" ........ your sense of humor is hysterical ;D
Our 7 years history of GSX updates is there to prove this, regardless of your snarky comment. Other users that replied here already explained quite clearly why this was a good suggestion from users, and how it was correct for us to follow it. Also, it seems you are discussing two different things:
- The fact you are being asked for a direction later. THIS is clearly an advantage of this update.
- If the direction is asked *BEFORE* or *AFTER* releasing the parking brakes. We might change this, but it would be wrong to go back to the previous version, because this is clearly a big improvement.
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We don't want to go back to a previous version. All I'm asking is: let ground crew ask our intentions (direction of push back) BEFORE we release the parking brake. That's all.
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- If the direction is asked *BEFORE* or *AFTER* releasing the parking brakes. We might change this
Pretty sure that's what the original question was in the first place.
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Pretty sure that's what the original question was in the first place.
Saying "Could we please have the option back", to me looks as wanting to go back to the previous versions, when the direction was asked even before the tow truck started to move. We never had any version in which the direction was asked just before releasing the parking brakes we could go back to.
In any case, running the FSDT Live Update now, will change the request to be just before asking to release the parking brakes, but NOT before the truck moves, as it was in earlier versions.
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- If the direction is asked *BEFORE* or *AFTER* releasing the parking brakes. We might change this
Pretty sure that's what the original question was in the first place.
Lost in Translation .........
Thank you Umberto for the option that's not a previous version but a better choice :D
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Hello,
In any case, running the FSDT Live Update now, will change the request to be just before asking to release the parking brakes, but NOT before the truck moves, as it was in earlier versions.
This is a good change, thanks for this. It is a huge help to be able to have the tug connected and ready to go before requesting push & start from ATC, leaving the final selection of pushback position until clearance has been received but before having to release the parking brake.
I've loaded up the FS Labs A321 to test it quickly and unfortunately I encountered a problem while trying this new pushback method. After selecting the pushback position, the ground crew begin pushing straight away, before asking you to 'release brakes', so they do it with the parking brake set. If you release the parking brake anyway, you get the urgent message to release the parking brake immediately - so it is almost as if the detection for the parking brake is reversed temporarily while the pushback is taking place. My steps to reproduce are below:
- With the aircraft loaded up on stand, on the GSX menu press 5 - Prepare for push-back and departure.
- With my selected options, I get asked "Do you want to request Pushback?" Select 1 - Yes
- You get the normal ground crew comms "Captain we are ready for Pushback" & "Locking Gear"
- On the next menu when it appears, I selected 2 - QuickEdit Pushback, and proceeded to select my pushback location plus any required nodes, then press 'Y' to exit
- "Commencing push" is played, and pushback starts without the "release parking brake" communication
Hope that helps (providing it is not a problem just on my end).
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After selecting the pushback position, the ground crew begin pushing straight away, before asking you to 'release brakes', so they do it with the parking brake set.
Does it happen with a default airplane ?
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In any case, running the FSDT Live Update now, will change the request to be just before asking to release the parking brakes, but NOT before the truck moves, as it was in earlier versions.
Sorry, but I can not see any improvement here. Actually, this make things worse. Of course it is more realistic in the real world to advise the pushback crew before brakes are released. No doubt about this. But what realism is gained in the sim? There is no living ground crew but only the GSX window and there is no immersion increase just by operating a GUI window. So is there really any disadvantage when the direction is selected just after the brakes are released?
As I said before, I mainly use the FSLabs Airbus to fly online. Every interaction with GSX is done via the ATSU and the INT switch in the VC. I make the preflight flow and when boarding completes, I press the INT switch to request pushback. Then, the tug connects and then I ask the Vatsim controller for push and start. This can take some time in busy situations and I have no back mirror to look behind for situational awareness. Only after I get the clearance with direction I will release the brakes and this is the only moment where I ever see the GSX window. Direction selected and off we go...
Thus, selection of direction after brakes are released is more efficient for our simulator. Why?
-Firstly, flexibility. Pushback direction should be selected as late as possible.
-Secondly, immersion. I do not want to be bothered by the GSX window until really necessary. The old solution (after brakes released) gave me the maximum control over GSX and not vice versa (I have the brake release reminders suppressed btw).
-Thirdly, pilot behavior while flying online. Brakes should only be released when cleared by the controller to push. Selecting the direction afterwards implies that the pilot is aware of the cleared pushback direction. Reverting now to before release increases the chance that some pilots will pre-select a direction without any clearance. The actual clearance later issued by the controller could be contrary to the direction selected by the pilot. This will result in many wrong pushbacks and clogged aprons/taxiways. At least in my opinion, pushback efficiency and precision on Vatsim really improved after the direction had to be selected after releasing of the brakes.
Maybe this could be made an option (before or after) to please every party here? But just for point 3 alone (pilot behavior) I would highly opt for making direction selection after brakes released the default.
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Of course it is more realistic in the real world to advise the pushback crew before brakes are released. No doubt about this.
Maybe this could be made an option (before or after) to please every party here? But just for point 3 alone (pilot behavior) I would highly opt for making direction selection after brakes released the default.
Without sounding sarcastic or petty, but I really fail to see the 'problem' ...... I fly online a lot of time, and for me it is definitely better to know exactly what my intentions are before I release the parking brake. But I agree, it could be a personal preference and therefore, if possible maybe the GSX settings window could offer a choice. But for now I'm happy it is as it was before.
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Sorry, but I can not see any improvement here. Actually, this make things worse.
Maybe this could be made an option (before or after) to please every party here? But just for point 3 alone (pilot behavior) I would highly opt for making direction selection after brakes released the default.
Since Terblanche went to great extent ( as you have ) to explain why the direction should be asked BEFORE releasing brakes, it's clear we cannot possibly please everybody, and it should be an option.
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I see the same issue as J5Flyer in PMDG 737NGX after the update today. There is no request to release parking brakes. Pushback happens with parking brakes set and after completion, it is asking to set parking brakes when the brakes are still set resulting into pushback not being completed (i.e. tow truck is never disconnected).
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Making this an option (same as the good engine start) with after of before seems to be the best solution. Thank you for considering this, Umberto.
And Terblanche, no problem. I absolutely agree that this comes down to personal preferences and in the end everybody here is only trying to improve our sim experience.
Enjoy your weekend, gentlemen.
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Hello,
This is a good change, thanks for this. It is a huge help to be able to have the tug connected and ready to go before requesting push & start from ATC, leaving the final selection of pushback position until clearance has been received but before having to release the parking brake.
I've loaded up the FS Labs A321 to test it quickly and unfortunately I encountered a problem while trying this new pushback method. After selecting the pushback position, the ground crew begin pushing straight away, before asking you to 'release brakes', so they do it with the parking brake set. If you release the parking brake anyway, you get the urgent message to release the parking brake immediately - so it is almost as if the detection for the parking brake is reversed temporarily while the pushback is taking place. My steps to reproduce are below:
- With the aircraft loaded up on stand, on the GSX menu press 5 - Prepare for push-back and departure.
- With my selected options, I get asked "Do you want to request Pushback?" Select 1 - Yes
- You get the normal ground crew comms "Captain we are ready for Pushback" & "Locking Gear"
- On the next menu when it appears, I selected 2 - QuickEdit Pushback, and proceeded to select my pushback location plus any required nodes, then press 'Y' to exit
- "Commencing push" is played, and pushback starts without the "release parking brake" communication
Hope that helps (providing it is not a problem just on my end).
Experiencing the same.
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Got the same parking brakes issue after the latest update. I used a PMDG 777 and ran all the procedures as before. Unfortunately, after I set a quickedit position and pressed Y, the pushback started right away without asking parking brakes release. If I release it, I got the warning to set it immediately. The even worse thing is when I got the position, no matter the parking brake was set or not, I was always asked to set parking brakes so the pushback process never end. Hope to hear any suggestions to fix that.
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Unfortunately, after I set a quickedit position and pressed Y, the pushback started right away without asking parking brakes release.
Already discussed here, confirming it's a problem that happens only after exiting from having edited a QuickPushback, and it will be fixed soon. All other kind of pushback work normally.
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,22866.msg153776.html#msg153776
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I would love the option please, if possible. It is personal preference as suggested. I fly only on line. It is not uncommon to anticipate a pushback direction only for the Controller to direct you to the other!! So for me, the choice of direction upon brake release is ideal.
Keith
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Hi,
I fly only on line. It is not uncommon to anticipate a pushback direction only for the Controller to direct you to the other!! So for me, the choice of direction upon brake release is ideal.
Just curious as to why you would want to release the parking brake (effectively starting your 'off blocks' time) before you have selected the direction/position of the push? The way it is now after the change is far more realistic.
The way to do it is to tell GSX to prepare for push and start, let the tug connect and insert the pin as required, then ignor or close the menu that asks you for the pushback direction until you have received clearance from ATC. Request push & start from ATC who will confirm the direction of the push, then you tell the ground crew where you are pushing to and release the brakes when they ask you a few seconds later.
With what you are suggesting, you want to release the brakes, then potentially sit there with the brakes released for anywhere up to a minute while you customise your quickedit push & start? Doesn't quite make sense to me and would take the same amount of time except simply doing those two things in a different order, but maybe you have other reasons I am not aware of.
Just my input to hopefully help you with the flow. The main point is that you do not need to tell GSX which way to push as soon as the menu pops up, which allows you to wait until you have got your clearance from ATC, then releasing the brakes is quite rightly the last thing to do.
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Hi,
Just curious as to why you would want to release the parking brake (effectively starting your 'off blocks' time) before you have selected the direction/position of the push? The way it is now after the change is far more realistic.
The way to do it is to tell GSX to prepare for push and start, let the tug connect and insert the pin as required, then ignor or close the menu that asks you for the pushback direction until you have received clearance from ATC. Request push & start from ATC who will confirm the direction of the push, then you tell the ground crew where you are pushing to and release the brakes when they ask you a few seconds later.
With what you are suggesting, you want to release the brakes, then potentially sit there with the brakes released for anywhere up to a minute while you customise your quickedit push & start? Doesn't quite make sense to me and would take the same amount of time except simply doing those two things in a different order, but maybe you have other reasons I am not aware of.
Just my input to hopefully help you with the flow. The main point is that you do not need to tell GSX which way to push as soon as the menu pops up, which allows you to wait until you have got your clearance from ATC, then releasing the brakes is quite rightly the last thing to do.
Well, there's no applause emoji, so I'll just say it's about time someone made sense!
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Well, there's no applause emoji, so I'll just say it's about time someone made sense!
That's what I thought as well, and I'm happy another user was able to explain it better than I ever could, without sounding as if we didn't listen to users...
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Hi,
Just curious as to why you would want to release the parking brake (effectively starting your 'off blocks' time) before you have selected the direction/position of the push? The way it is now after the change is far more realistic.
The way to do it is to tell GSX to prepare for push and start, let the tug connect and insert the pin as required, then ignor or close the menu that asks you for the pushback direction until you have received clearance from ATC. Request push & start from ATC who will confirm the direction of the push, then you tell the ground crew where you are pushing to and release the brakes when they ask you a few seconds later.
And that's all I was asking when I started this thread .......
... I'm happy it is back to the way it was and that Umberto listens to his users.
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Is there any reason that some writers here need to proselytise so much? ??? Again, there is no doubt that the direction selection before brake release is more realistic in a real world context. So, it is not necessary to explain this over and over again and there is seriously no need for any applause. I am totally capable to understand the flow.
What I am writing about is simply user preference. I gave a long explanation on page one of this thread.
To sum it up one more time, I do not want bothered with the GSX window unless I decide to do so. Having to close and open the window does simply bother me. The choice to select the direction after brake release was the least invasive way. For you, it is more realistic to communicate with an imagined ground crew (i.e., the GSX user interface) and this is also okay. It is simply a user preference.
My main concern however, and this is the same as keithgiannoni said, is online experience and pilot behavior. I simply saw far less wrong pushbacks after the "direction selection after brakes released"-method was introduced. Is this realistic? Of course not. Does it improve online flying? Yes, it certainly does.
And this is the only reason why I would like to see the After choice as the default selection.
I (and keithgiannoni in this case) do simply ask to have a choice. So, what is the problem for some of you that we could have two options to chose from? Please, just show a little bit of empathy and try do understand that this is just as question of user preference and good practice. And everybody who wish to do so can than simply select "before brakes release". Where does anybody in this scenario do lose something?
Just because some of you make a bit more snarky comments and show more attitude does not mean that my opinion as a customer is more wrong or right than yours.
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And everybody who wish to do so can than simply select "before brakes release". Where does anybody in this scenario do lose something?
Because it would add extra code, extra workload on our part which could be better spent to add other features and extra complexity that might *potentially* result in bugs later on. So, clearly, before adding an option, we must be sure it's useful to many users and, hopefully, those that request it, should provide some sensible motivation.
J5flyer explanation made perfect sense why it's best as it is now ( which I agree ), but I fail to see the logic of your explanation:
I do not want bothered with the GSX window unless I decide to do so. Having to close and open the window does simply bother me. The choice to select the direction after brake release was the least invasive way. For you, it is more realistic to communicate with an imagined ground crew (i.e., the GSX user interface) and this is also okay. It is simply a user preference.
I simply don't see how "less invasive" is presenting the pushback direction menu before or after releasing brakes. Except that, asking after releasing brakes is never done in real life, since it could be dangerous to let the airplane free to move ( especially in slippery conditions ) while you are waiting to decide which way to go, that's why you should release brakes as the last thing you do.
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I simply don't see how "less invasive" is presenting the pushback direction menu before or after releasing brakes. Except that, asking after releasing brakes is never done in real life, since it could be dangerous to let the airplane free to move ( especially in slippery conditions ) while you are waiting to decide which way to go, that's why you should release brakes as the last thing you do.
Okay, this experience might be totally dependend from one's aircraft and I can understand your point. I mostly use the FSLabs and the only time I see the windows is after brakes release.
J5flyer explanation made perfect sense why it's best as it is now ( which I agree )
To be fair, users requested the latest possible point for a long time and most were happy the way it was since December. Having now a handful, very vocal, users requesting the opposite way does not mean that this represents the majority. And no, I (who is also very vocal) do also not represent any majority as I only express my preference. But Keith showed that I am not alone with my preference. You are better in marketing than I am but you surely know that satisfied customers are less likely to express their opinion than unhappy customers. Based on this I would guess that there are quite a few who also preferred the way I wish for as a choice.
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Okay, this experience might be totally dependend from one's aircraft and I can understand your point. I mostly use the FSLabs and the only time I see the windows is after brakes release.
That's just because the FS Labs integrates with GSX, so it has removed most of the menus that everybody usually see when using any other airplane.
I don't see how you could remove even *that* menu, since you cannot be sure in advance which kind of pushback you need, including the possible need to create one on the fly with a QuickEdit.
To be fair, users requested the latest possible point for a long time and most were happy the way it was since December. Having now a handful, very vocal, users requesting the opposite way does not mean that this represents the majority. And no, I (who is also very vocal) do also not represent any majority as I only express my preference. But Keith showed that I am not alone with my preference. You are better in marketing than I am but you surely know that satisfied customers are less likely to express their opinion than unhappy customers. Based on this I would guess that there are quite a few who also preferred the way I wish for as a choice.
I think you are confusing things here.
Users requested to move the Pushback direction from the old "first thing asked", to the current "last thing you do before brakes and we clearly listened, because it MADE sense but, the way it was initially made, that is *after* releasing parking brakes, wasn't realistic and I think those saying it's best as it is now, just *before* releasing brakes, which was the intention of the original request, have made way more compelling arguments compared to the one that wanted *after* brakes.
But in general, the concept NOT asking for the direction as the FIRST thing, as GSX were since it was released, is totally correct.