FSDreamTeam forum
Products Support => GSX Support FSX/P3D => Topic started by: VHEBN on November 13, 2019, 02:15:44 am
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Hi Umberto, it seems that in the past few months there has been an update that has broken the marshaller, as he seem to just bob his arms up and down, instead of correctly marshalling in an aircraft.
The correct technique is as seen in this video
However what GSX does is this
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I was going to start my own thread, by since you brought it up 1st...
I'm okay with the motions it uses, but I've had a heck of a time determining where to actually stop.
If I stop as soon as the marshal crosses his batons I end up a couple of feet (2.9 to be exact, as shown in 1.jpg) short of the stop position.
If I keep moving forward the marshal just stands there with their batons crossed (2.jpg). I have moved .9 feet beyond when the batons were crossed.
If I keep going forward and stop as soon as the marshal uncrosses the batons, I end up parking 1.6 feet short of the stop position (3.jpg).
To add insult to injury, the marshal then tells me that I didn't do a good job parking because I was short of the park position. It wasn't my fault! :o
I find that it is impossible to use the marshal without the distance display turned on. If I stopped as soon as the old marshal crossed the batons, I was right where I needed to be. No number display necessary.
Umberto, could we have the timing adjusted a little bit so if we stop as soon as the marshal crosses the batons, we are on the stop position? Thank you!
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The best would be that de mark "0 feets" equals to when the marshaller starts crossing the batons, and not as it's working now, that reads 2.9 feets.
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Nothing is "broken" in the latest update.
There are several marshallers in GSX, and they don't do exactly the same gestures, and you got one of the ones that has a bit different gesture than the others. And even in real life then don't do the same gesture, somebody waves arms even behind his back, somebody else do it in front, and nobody is "wrong", they all have their style, just like in GSX.
The animation that crosses the batons is exactly synchronized to end to the 0 distance. And, when in doubt, always follow the *numbers*. To take into account your reaction time, we might tweak it a bit to anticipate that, but right now is perfectly in sync, that's why it might look more difficult than it should.
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There are several marshallers in GSX, and they don't do exactly the same gestures, and you got one of the ones that has a bit different gesture than the others.
How do I make it so that I always get the one with the correct guesture according to my original post then?
The gesture used in the video is the only one I see in GSX since the update, and I know that at the airports I'm flying into, this is not used. Not only that but I literally do this for a living I'm pretty sure I know the "correct" way of doing it.
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The animation that crosses the batons is exactly synchronized to end to the 0 distance. And, when in doubt, always follow the *numbers*. To take into account your reaction time, we might tweak it a bit to anticipate that, but right now is perfectly in sync, that's why it might look more difficult than it should.
There must be something wrong with my installation. In the attached screenshot, it is clearly evident that the marshal's batons are crossed with 3.9' remaining before the stop position. Is it possible that my install has a bad entry in a configuration file or something?
If I go to the numbers, he throws the batons at the cockpit window and starts running to the pushback truck for cover. ;D
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Umberto, after the latest live update the issue appears to be resolved. Brenda marshalled me to the correct stop position. I stopped when she crossed the batons and I was within .4' of the stop position. She even complimented me on my good parking. ::)
Thank you!
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Hi Umberto, it appears in the latest update modifications that have been made to the marshaller animation. I assume that despite your lack of reply, this is in some part due to this thread. The new marshaller animation, while a slight improvement, is still incorrect. I do not understand why it is so easy for you and your team to model short shorts and thighs, however, you can't make a correct animation for a core part of your program. In any case, I have attached some reference videos you may be able to use to assist you in the development of future updates. I look forward to what you create.
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Hi Umberto, it appears in the latest update modifications that have been made to the marshaller animation. I assume that despite your lack of reply, this is in some part due to this thread. The new marshaller animation, while a slight improvement, is still incorrect.
The marshaller animation, which we made only for one model, it's an obvious improvement, not a "small" one. And it's surely not incorrect. And yes, it was clearly suggested by this post and we came up with a better animation very shortly after this thread started. And what's with the ""despite your lack of reply", in a thread in which I HAVE replied ?
As can be seen in the videos you posted ( don't you think we have seem them too ? ), different people have very different styles and, as long the movements are compatible with the CAP 637 standard, and they surely are, they can all be considered correct and just a variation in personal styles.
Obviously, everything can be always constantly improved, and in fact this update should prove the fact it always is, and every thread is taken seriously. Why should be me that is pointing that out, when it should be obvious by the actual update ?
I'll post again the reply that really matters, the one from Pirateinparadise
after the latest live update the issue appears to be resolved. Brenda marshalled me to the correct stop position. I stopped when she crossed the batons and I was within .4' of the stop position. She even complimented me on my good parking
And that's what Marshalling is all about...
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As can be seen in the videos you posted ( don't you think we have seem them too ? ), different people have very different styles and, as long the movements are compatible with the CAP 637 standard, and they surely are, they can all be considered correct and just a variation in personal styles.
What is currently modeled in the most recent version of GSX is not like in any of the videos I linked. This functionality used to work perfectly. If nothing else can we come to a comprimise where this other "style" that I'm looking for is an option?
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What is currently modeled in the most recent version of GSX is not like in any of the videos I linked
The video you linked are not the entire spectrum of different ways of doing the same thing.
. This functionality used to work perfectly.
The functionality used to have a problem that made difficult differentiating between closing batons and crossing batons, which this thread was all about, and now it's way better, as confirmed by the other poster.
If nothing else can we come to a comprimise where this other "style" that I'm looking for is an option?
You cannot expect we could model so many different styles. The important thing is that now is way easier to understand what the marshaller is signaling, and there's no confusion between the last part of the "normal stop" sequence and the actual "stop", which make it easier to park. Again, that's what marshalling is all about.
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The functionality used to have a problem that made difficult differentiating between closing batons and crossing batons, which this thread was all about, and now it's way better, as confirmed by the other poster.
That's not what this thread was about at all, I'd know, I started the thread myself. The issue is that the GSX marshaller doesn't marshall in the aircraft properly. It stands there and bobs its hands up and down like in the video in the OP .
Admittedly, GSX has been updated since then and this has been tweaked but it's still not correct.
If you take a look at any of the 30 videos I linked, you'll see that yes, everyone has their own style, but none of them do the incorrect action that GSX does.
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If you take a look at any of the 30 videos I linked, you'll see that yes, everyone has their own style, but none of them do the incorrect action that GSX does.
Hold on a minute. That motion that you are calling incorrect is very common at many of the airports that I've been to. I'm not sure where you live, but I'm in the eastern US. I've never seen one use the paddles, just the sticks and cones. I have seen both styles of the 'proceed straight ahead' signal in use, which is what you are complaining about. Check out this somewhat entertaining video at 1:23 from the Air Safety Institute and you'll see what I mean. https://youtu.be/7siioLHPigg (https://youtu.be/7siioLHPigg)
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If you take a look at any of the 30 videos I linked, you'll see that yes, everyone has their own style, but none of them do the incorrect action that GSX does.
Hold on a minute. That motion that you are calling incorrect is very common at many of the airports that I've been to. I'm not sure where you live, but I'm in the eastern US. I've never seen one use the paddles, just the sticks and cones. I have seen both styles of the 'proceed straight ahead' signal in use, which is what you are complaining about. Check out this somewhat entertaining video at 1:23 from the Air Safety Institute and you'll see what I mean. https://youtu.be/7siioLHPigg (https://youtu.be/7siioLHPigg)
Hmmmmmm, that's interesting and I've never seen it before. However GSX should still offer the option to use the "normal" hand signal. In none of the ports I've been to or have conducted any research on have I seen that hand signal used.
On second thought, it could be that that hand signal is not used for larger aircraft as it is more difficult to recognize from a distance, and although I can't speak for others, I don't use GSX when I fly light aircraft.
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I have seen both styles of the 'proceed straight ahead' signal in use, which is what you are complaining about
Exactly, that was my point.
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If you take a look at any of the 30 videos I linked, you'll see that yes, everyone has their own style, but none of them do the incorrect action that GSX does.
Please stop repeating "incorrect", when it's clearly a matter of individual styles and regional habits. Just because you never seen something in one place, it doesn't mean it's not common in other places. We obviously based the animations on existing real world videos.
This guy, for example, does the "go ahead" in what I'm sure you'll call a "peculiar" or "incorrect" way, which is different than most do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRQ7oIu7IYo&t=210 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRQ7oIu7IYo&t=210)
But the "normal stop" and "stop" signals are basically IDENTICAL to what GSX's Brenda does now.
This guy, instead, does the "go ahead" i a TOTALLY different way!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBdWeKrbtJo&t=75s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBdWeKrbtJo&t=75s)
So which one is right, and which one is the "incorrect" one ? They BOTH are perfectly fine to me and perfectly clear what they are signaling, since they are all compliant the CAP 637 standard, and that's the only thing that really matters.
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Well... After Brenda did it correctly several times, this guy pops up and the issue with the stop position reappeared.
He stopped me 4.8' from the stop position. :'(
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Umberto, I don't know why it is so hard for you to fix this. The old marshaller was fine. Please at least just add it as an option.
Also, side note, where exactly in CAP637 does it say your method is acceptable? I only see reference to mine.
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Umberto, I don't know why it is so hard for you to fix this. The old marshaller was fine. Please at least just add it as an option.
As I've said, several times by now, there's nothing to fix. You said yourself, when confronted with a real video doing something different from you expected, that you never seen it before so, please, don't say something is wrong, just because you never happened to see it done in the places you have been.
And no, the old marshaller wasn't "fine", as noted by pirateinpiradise, when using the "old" marshaller.
Also, side note, where exactly in CAP637 does it say your method is acceptable? I only see reference to mine.
Which is why, I posted two videos of wildly different interpretations of the "go ahead" signal, used in real world, proving it's really a matter of personal style. What matters is the signal wouldn't be mistaken for something else, and the pilot would understand, in order to be able to recognize when to stop.
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Well... After Brenda did it correctly several times, this guy pops up and the issue with the stop position reappeared.
As indicated in the release notes:
Change: - GSX - Better Marshaller animation for "Brenda" Marshaller. Others will follow soon.
It takes some time to update animations with all the different variations, for the precise reason we DO have ( on purpose ) different individual styles, so nobody would think these guys are robots with the same animation and just a different skin.
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Oops! Bad pirate. I did not read the change logs. :D
Sorry about that. Thank you for the upgrades!
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Which is why, I posted two videos of wildly different interpretations of the "go ahead" signal, used in real world, proving it's really a matter of personal style. What matters is the signal wouldn't be mistaken for something else, and the pilot would understand, in order to be able to recognize when to stop.
All of the videos I linked are far more similar to the diagram in CAP637 then what the GSX marshaller does. If it helps I made a short comparison video.
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All of the videos I linked are far more similar to the diagram in CAP637 then what the GSX marshaller does. If it helps I made a short comparison video.
The video I linked shows an entirely different style, which is even more different compared of some of the GSX marshallers ( you said "the GSX marshaller " as if there was only one. There are several, and each one is different, as in reality ), and that's a *real* one so please, stop saying GSX marshaller is "wrong" or "incorrect", when you said yourself you never seen some of things shows in linked videos.
So again, for the umpteen time, it's a matter of style and yes, in the next update, we'll add a new character "Emma", which will do the go ahead in a more "by the book" way, so maybe you'll understand we made all them different on purpose, to have them behaving like humans with different habits, and not robots with copy & pasted animations.
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The video I linked shows an entirely different style, which is even more different compared of some of the GSX marshallers
No, it didn't. I'm not talking about "styles", I'm talking about the fact that the GSX marshaller does an entirely different gesture that supposedly means the same thing. I have never seen evidence of this being used for airliners, however, which is why I don't think it's appropriate for GSX.
There are several, and each one is different, as in reality ), and that's a *real* one so please, stop saying GSX marshaller is "wrong" or "incorrect", when you said yourself you never seen some of things shows in linked videos.
This is nonsense. After looking through all 9 models in \Addon Manager\Simobjects\PBR\FSDT_Marshaller\ they all have either the same animation or similar enough animations that I didn't see a difference.
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No, it didn't. I'm not talking about "styles",
I am. And yes, it's a matter of different styles.
I'm talking about the fact that the GSX marshaller does an entirely different gesture that supposedly means the same thing. I have never seen evidence of this being used for airliners, however, which is why I don't think it's appropriate for GSX.
I already gave you the evidence: two real marshallers, both guiding airliners, doing the SAME thing using very different gestures. The first one is *extending* his arms SIDEWAYS, with the wands always being straight up at the same height:
&t=210
This one, instead, is *rotating* arms up and down, with wands ending up behind his back:
&t=75s
As I've said, TOTALLY different gestures to do the SAME signal. Are they both wrong ? Are they both right ?
]This is nonsense. After looking through all 9 models in \Addon Manager\Simobjects\PBR\FSDT_Marshaller\ they all have either the same animation or similar enough animations that I didn't see a difference.
They surely don't, they have very different animations. Obviously, the ones that comes in 4 different seasonal clothing variation, all share the same animation, so they count as one but, they different models are not the same, and the go ahead animation is usually the one that changes the most.
But again, the next Marshaller will have a more standard "go ahead" animation but, as I've said, so many times already, the whole point of marshalling is guiding to the right place, and not confuse you which signal is being done, regardless of the style.
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I've been watching this thread for a while as I've been experiencing the same issues.
The videos linked do all show individual style, however, in respect to the straight ahead gesture, which is the focus on VHEBN's replies, all videos are similar to CAP 637 in that large movements perpendicular to the taxiline occurred. This greatly improves the signal's legibility from a distance.
The only video in which the current GSX straight gesture is replicated was at a GA FBO which obviously involves much smaller aircraft and closer distances (Maybe keep current style for small aircraft?)
The following two pictures show the current turn left (Which is similar to CAP 637 straight) and the straight ahead. The left gesture is significantly more legible.
(https://kluv7g.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mjJ_eDxkMCDu7JoqTSbJ2OCSHMv2cojIDovf7QEULzyLOwtA58L-QVuZAIysx7uEeIw-chWs38qriO55OX8a85WnlUdU709x2tnbw3fRMv9JQcfsCy-69qqvHZc2aUrGQeHRwZ6M0qNTN47Q9jPNqYHsGjjyFZm6E_gLQ16mPO3BrgYb6Kzf0oZKAMsWdNgRvC8TxPEF6LLOKu8UYS_bL5w?width=1920&height=1017&cropmode=none)
(https://juyita.dm.files.1drv.com/y4mVcJAg4vI1Xv7ZOBDg22Xery_jR7TsOcmtP3dVgUF8ETxPG_7jxw1fEYceNDSt-CPUlOX63B9E8KKiX681IAFAMeVIRQr3kg8LsuFt1XD6jCau0nb91TcscQJR07vcQliNRO_Sp17LwKMPMjz86ptjJYQgG7tI-jQCA6dKh92M-ity8nq0BFKsrfWgsAPuoYoCl_mj5D4uV8nzWihrBs-pA?width=1920&height=1017&cropmode=none)
Thanks
Brendan
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I am. And yes, it's a matter of different styles.
It's not a matter of "styles" I don't know why you keep bringing that up. The animation models wrong gesture given the circumstance where it's used.
Goto any airport that has aircraft bigger than a Dash 8 and tell me how many use the gesture that is modeled in GSX. Very few or none.
This thread has become ridiculous. I've pointed out an obvious issue in your program and first, you've claimed
Nothing is "broken"
Then it was
the CAP 637 standard
Which I'll come back to because you then tried to derail the thread by claiming
The functionality used to have a problem that made difficult differentiating between closing batons and crossing batons, which this thread was all about, and now it's way better, as confirmed by the other poster.
After I pointed out that the CAP 637 isn't even remotely modeled in GSX you claimed that
What matters is the signal wouldn't be mistaken for something else
Which doesn't make sense given that it's the wrong signal anyway...
Now you're trying to disregard my topic by claiming two marshallers doing the same gesture with different styles somehow justifies what GSX does?
I already gave you the evidence: two real marshallers, both guiding airliners, doing the SAME thing using very different gestures. The first one is *extending* his arms SIDEWAYS, with the wands always being straight up at the same height:
&t=210
This one, instead, is *rotating* arms up and down, with wands ending up behind his back:
&t=75s
As I've said, TOTALLY different gestures to do the SAME signal. Are they both wrong ? Are they both right ?
I really don't know how to reply to this anymore, maybe QFA1213 can convince you?
The funny thing is that prior to one of the updates, there was no issue, this only changed recently. It surely couldn't be that hard to just go back to the old animations, could it?
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Nothing is "broken" in the latest update.
There are several marshallers in GSX, and they don't do exactly the same gestures, and you got one of the ones that has a bit different gesture than the others. And even in real life then don't do the same gesture, somebody waves arms even behind his back, somebody else do it in front, and nobody is "wrong", they all have their style, just like in GSX.
The animation that crosses the batons is exactly synchronized to end to the 0 distance. And, when in doubt, always follow the *numbers*. To take into account your reaction time, we might tweak it a bit to anticipate that, but right now is perfectly in sync, that's why it might look more difficult than it should.
Umberto is right, everyone even in real life, has their own way of doing it.. I get mad at some of our guys cause they'll do it worse than what your having issues with and this real life were talking, they'll do like that one ramp your talking about but he does it stomach high and I'm like how is captain suppose to see that when your holding the X at your stomach height and he's sitting that high up.. So yea umberto right, everyone has definitley there own way of doing it.. Now when I marshall them in, I do it with the wands waving properly but I've also done it with them in front but clear enough and high enough so when I come too the stop X mark they are clearly visible for the pilot to see the cross stop sign.
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but he does it stomach high and I'm like how is captain suppose to see that when your holding the X at your stomach height and he's sitting that high up...
Hahaha, we have a guy at work who does that too, not sure what exactly makes him think it's a good idea.
But I'm not debating that there are different styles because I know there are. The issue is that there are two valid gestures for this, however only one of them makes sense given the context. I'm struggling to get that point through to Umberto because he's so locked on people having their own style.
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It's not a matter of "styles" I don't know why you keep bringing that up. The animation models wrong gesture given the circumstance where it's used.
Yes, it is, no matter how many times you keep repeating it,
Goto any airport that has aircraft bigger than a Dash 8 and tell me how many use the gesture that is modeled in GSX. Very few or none.
The video I posted shows totally different styles on a A320 and a B747
Which doesn't make sense given that it's the wrong signal anyway...
It's NOT the wrong signal, stop saying that.
I really don't know how to reply to this anymore, maybe QFA1213 can convince you?
Of course you don't know how to reply, when those two videos are proving you wrong and making my point how wildly different styles real life marshaller can have.
The funny thing is that prior to one of the updates, there was no issue, this only changed recently. It surely couldn't be that hard to just go back to the old animations, could it?
You got it backwards. Prior of the last updates, there was a bug pointed out by pirateinparadise, which has now been fixed, as he confirmed to be now able to park properly. Again, that's what marshalling is all about.
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I'm struggling to get that point through to Umberto because he's so locked on people having their own style.
No, I'm struggling to get my point to you, because you are so locked on the marshaller doing the "wrong" animation, when he isn't. They all have different styles, but not of them is using the wrong animation, and there's NO doubt about which one is which.
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Umberto is right, everyone even in real life, has their own way of doing it.. I get mad at some of our guys cause they'll do it worse than what your having issues with and this real life were talking
And that's what is all about this thread. There's nothing more to add than this, so I'm locking it down, with the confirmation that on the next update, we'll have two characters which will do a more "by the book" go ahead gesture.