FSDreamTeam forum

Developer's Backdoor => GSX Backdoor => Topic started by: torsten on October 01, 2019, 10:34:48 PM



Title: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 01, 2019, 10:34:48 PM
Hello,

since it is not allowed for service Vehicle ( like Fuel Truck, Px Bus, Belly Trruck and so on ) to drive on the
Taxi lines, is it possible to let them drive on the correct ways ? ( streets )

GT


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: Captain Kevin on October 02, 2019, 01:28:38 AM
The vehicles are driving based on what is available in the AFCAD. So, if vehicle roads aren't available in the AFCAD, they'll end up driving on the taxiway instead.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 02, 2019, 02:40:17 AM
hmm, what about reading the correct "streets" from the corresponding bgl files ?


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: Beat578 on October 02, 2019, 07:10:18 AM
It will if they are there. But a lot of BGL / AFCAD don't have them. So GSX has to switch to what's available.
You can use the afcad editor to add them yourself if the not there as far as I know, but i never tried that.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 02, 2019, 09:42:31 AM
adding taxiways to the Afcad?
I think then the AI Aircrafts will take these :-)


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: virtuali on October 02, 2019, 01:16:12 PM
hmm, what about reading the correct "streets" from the corresponding bgl files ?

What do you mean with "streets" ? Vector streets are only for the road traffic, and are usually outside the airport, so GSX won't use them, and it would be wrong if it did.

For ground vehicles at airports, there's a PROPER kind of path, which is NOT a taxiway, and it's the "vehicle" path, which is displayed in pink in ADE. GSX vehicles will use those by preference, giving them more weight so, even if the path is longer than taking a taxiway, they will still prefer the vehicle paths.

Obviously, if the scenery AFCAD doesn't contain any of these paths, or they are not connected correctly, or there aren't any close to the parking you are being serviced on, GSX should still trying to use SOME kind of path, otherwise you'll see vehicles cutting through grass to reach you directly. So, when nothing else is available, GSX will use taxiways, and even runways, even not even a taxiway can be used.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 02, 2019, 01:58:23 PM
I have no idea of AFCAD editing , but it seams there are no such vehicle path's in most of the AFCAD's
because most of the time, the vehicles are using the taxiways.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: virtuali on October 02, 2019, 02:28:15 PM
I have no idea of AFCAD editing , but it seams there are no such vehicle path's in most of the AFCAD's because most of the time, the vehicles are using the taxiways.

The correct way of saying this would be "there are no such vehicle path's in most of the AFCAD's of the 3rd party sceneries I tried", because they surely are in all default scenery, and we also usually take care to place them in our own sceneries, because of the issues they can cause to GSX, which users mistakenly assuming GSX vehicles are crazy because they drive on taxiways when they shouldn't.

Of course, if you enabled default Airport Ground Traffic, they would also drive on taxiways (or might not even appear), on an airport missing vehicle paths so, it's not 3rd party developers should do a proper AFCAD "just" to suit GSX. They should do it regardless, if only to have the default ground vehicles working correctly.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 02, 2019, 02:46:40 PM
i have added some Vehicle Links to the Afcad and compiled it.
but also the gsx vehicles taking the taxi links.
Are the vehicle links wrong positioned ?


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: virtuali on October 02, 2019, 03:08:24 PM
Are the vehicle links wrong positioned ?

Yes, you failed to add connecting nodes to the parking spots, so they are like a closed circuit by themselves. There must be nodes in the places were the vehicle path crosses the apron link path, so the parking spots are reachable from the vehicle parking. Obviously, they vehicle path should start from a parking of the "vehicle" kind as well, which is what GSX will use ( again, by preference ) to start vehicles from.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 02, 2019, 04:36:58 PM
ahh, i see.

is it possible to set up the point where, as example for refueling, the fuel truck comes from?
how is the start position calculated by gsx ?


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: virtuali on October 02, 2019, 07:17:19 PM
is it possible to set up the point where, as example for refueling, the fuel truck comes from?

Of course, by placing a parking of the "Fuel" type. Which should also be connected to the same network of the other vehicle paths and, by extension, to the parking spots.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 02, 2019, 09:36:51 PM
ahh, ok thanks

sorry, but the bus and the trucks with the containers/bags starts where ?


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: Beat578 on October 03, 2019, 07:09:21 AM
The bus starts at the closest parking spot defined. If there is none, at the closest fuel truck parking, as far as I know.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 03, 2019, 08:56:36 AM
thats the reason why i must wait always a long time for the bus.
When i am in EDDP P402, the bus starts at P428 or 430.

Is that the nearst Parking to start for the bus ??

Also i wonder a bit, why the other AI Vehicles using the correct "streets" on the Airport and not the Taxiways ( without adding Vehicle lines )


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: Captain Kevin on October 03, 2019, 09:29:31 AM
Also i wonder a bit, why the other AI Vehicles using the correct "streets" on the Airport and not the Taxiways ( without adding Vehicle lines )
If it's the traffic that came with the scenery, it's because the scenery developer designed that traffic, so they could set it up that way. The default AI and GSX vehicles wouldn't know where the roads are in the scenery without the AFCAD because a texture is just a texture. That road texture could easily be something else.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: virtuali on October 03, 2019, 11:35:57 AM
Also i wonder a bit, why the other AI Vehicles using the correct "streets" on the Airport and not the Taxiways ( without adding Vehicle lines )

Which AI vehicles ? The default ground traffic ? They will use the vehicle paths, exactly like GSX, if they exists.

The only difference is, the might not use taxiways under any conditions and might just not appear, or might be able to appear on your previous closed/unconnected loop, because not all of them needs to reach your parking, and you wouldn't mind if they didn't.

While GSX vehicles, which MUST reach your parking (and you WOULD mind if they didn't), are correctly trying to find every possible route (again, with a big bias into using CONNECTED vehicle paths), including taxiways and even runways, if nothing else is available.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 03, 2019, 12:26:43 PM
hmm, then it is in my sim different.
Also BEFORE i add the Vehicle path in the AFCAD, the default AI uses the "streets" on the Airport and not the Taxiways.
Its a scenery from Digital Design. Meybe they did a good job with the AI?


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: virtuali on October 03, 2019, 01:02:57 PM
Quote
Its a scenery from Digital Design. Meybe they did a good job with the AI?

Are you sure they are default ground vehicles and not, for example, custom ground traffic made by the scenery itself ? We have our own custom ground traffic on many of our sceneries, and we use our own paths, which are not related to the AFCAD.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 03, 2019, 01:46:44 PM
no, i am not sure about that. Thats the reason why i informed you about that i have installed EDDP from Digital Design.

I will have a look at a airport without a scenery installed to see the path there.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 03, 2019, 04:16:38 PM
i have loaded the sim in KORD, no scenerie installed !
Here is the video where you can see that the Truck ( AI ) is taking the street and not the Taxiways:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_-aRQ58hQM&feature=youtu.be

i dont know why the video is flickering. Normally i did not record any videos from the sim, so it was my first time


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: virtuali on October 03, 2019, 06:02:54 PM
Here is the video where you can see that the Truck ( AI ) is taking the street and not the Taxiways:

Of course it's using a vehicle path and not taxiways: the default scenery DOES have vehicle paths so, both default AI or GSX vehicles will use it. Have you seen GSX vehicles using taxiways on *that* scenery ?


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 03, 2019, 06:07:05 PM
That is possible.

I dont test GSX there.
What Airport do you prefer to test if there are vehicle paths or not ?


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: virtuali on October 03, 2019, 06:15:35 PM
What Airport do you prefer to test if there are vehicle paths or not ?

As I've said, so many times already, GSX vehicles WILL use vehicle paths, when they exists so, if you want to be sure of that, why not checking precisely on that default airport which you just checked with default ground vehicles ?

If the scenery doesn't have any vehicle paths, or they are not connected in a way that can reach your parking, you can be sure GSX will use whatever necessary to reach your parking, even taxiways, that's exactly what is supposed to do.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 03, 2019, 06:34:04 PM
Quote
why not checking precisely on that default airport which you just checked with default ground vehicles ?

?? The one you see in the video IS a default ground vehicle !
Also i checked the AFCAD of THIS airport ( which is a default one ) and there are NO vehicle Path's in the AFCAD !!


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: virtuali on October 04, 2019, 01:57:40 PM
?? The one you see in the video IS a default ground vehicle !

And that's why you should have tested the same airport with *GSX* vehicles, to prove you (since you apparently don't believe what has been explained to you over and over) GSX vehicles WILL follow vehicle paths, if they exists.

I really don't know what you are trying to prove or say. First you show a 3rd party scenery with no vehicle paths, complaining GSX vehicles go over taxiways (the obviously do, in that case), then you added vehicle paths in the wrong way, and after I explained you what was the problem, you show a *default* airport which DOES have vehicle paths, tested only with *default* vehicles ? Of course they work, but the same would have happened with GSX vehicles as well, which you haven't tested THERE.

Do you understand, or not, what makes all the difference, is how the AFCAD is made ( or *badly* made ) ?

Quote
Also i checked the AFCAD of THIS airport ( which is a default one ) and there are NO vehicle Path's in the AFCAD !!

I don't know what I you did to check this, or what you opened. But it can assure you the default AFCAD for the default KORD DOES have vehicle paths. How do you expect vehicles following the correct paths otherwise ?


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 04, 2019, 04:01:17 PM
i will tell you, that the default vehicles are using the STREETS EVEN if there are no vehicle path in the AFCAD !

So the question is why GSX vehicles need vehicle paths in the AFCAD and default vehicles not.

Ps.: Also in EDDP with the Digital Design Scenery and WITHOUT VEHICLE PATH in the AFCAD, the default vehicles are using the
Streets and not the (only) the Taxiways.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: virtuali on October 05, 2019, 01:48:21 PM
i will tell you, that the default vehicles are using the STREETS EVEN if there are no vehicle path in the AFCAD !

No, they wont.  This is clearly indicated in your video at default KORD, which was supposed to "prove" they could use the vehicle paths without vehicle paths, but in fact proved my point, since default KORD DOES have vehicle paths in the AFCAD.

Quote
So the question is why GSX vehicles need vehicle paths in the AFCAD and default vehicles not.

As I've said, so many times already, BOTH default and GSX vehicles requires vehicle paths in the AFCAD.

Quote
Also in EDDP with the Digital Design Scenery and WITHOUT VEHICLE PATH in the AFCAD, the default vehicles are using the Streets and not the (only) the Taxiways.

As I've said already, if the scenery doesn't have vehicle paths in the AFCAD, those you are seeing are not default ground vehicles, they are likely custom ground traffic which have their own path definitions outside the AFCAD, a common technique we used at several of our sceneries too, to get better control over them.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: virtuali on October 05, 2019, 02:17:42 PM
Two screenshots to finally prove you what I'm trying to explain.

This is Digital Design's EDDP, in the first screen, the small Van is following the vehicle paths, because it's CUSTOM made for the scenery (it has EDDP logo, so it's clearly not default ), so it must use its own custom method to follow that path, WITHOUT using the AFCAD.

In the 2nd screen, the baggage belt loader it's a custom object provided by the scenery (it also has an Liepzig airport livery, even if it's not easy to see), so it's following the vehicle path.

The blue snow plower truck, instead, it's a *default* Ground vehicle, so it uses the AFCAD and, guess what, it's running over a taxiway!, exactly like a GSX vehicle would, because default ground vehicles require Vehicle Paths in the AFCAD, just as GSX ones, and the airport doesn't have any.

I hope you are satisfied now and please, don't you think we should KNOW of ground traffic (and its interaction with the AFCAD ) work, having done this for the past 7 years ?


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 05, 2019, 02:37:00 PM
yes, thats the reason, why i send you pictures from a default airport, where no scenery is installed.
And as you see, also on this airport the default vehicles are using the streets and not the taxiways ( only )
I show that to you.

Why are you showing pictures from EDDP WITH DD Scenery installed.
I know there are vehicles made by DD .


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: virtuali on October 05, 2019, 05:07:25 PM
yes, thats the reason, why i send you pictures from a default airport, where no scenery is installed. And as you see, also on this airport the default vehicles are using the streets and not the taxiways ( only )

You showed a video a default KORD with default vehicles running on vehicle paths, and default KORD HAS vehicle paths, so that's normal.

Quote
Why are you showing pictures from EDDP WITH DD Scenery installed. I know there are vehicles made by DD .

Then why you said "Also in EDDP with the Digital Design Scenery and WITHOUT VEHICLE PATH in the AFCAD, the default vehicles are using the Streets and not the (only) the Taxiways." ?

They don't, and that's precisely why I showed you the difference in my last screenshots:

1) default vehicles at DD EDDP run over taxiways

2) custom ground vehicles at DD EDDP can go on the correct paths, because they are not affected by the AFCAD

Really, I don't know how much easier than this I can explain, and how more obvious this is, why you are continuing to argue ?



Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 05, 2019, 06:25:19 PM
read my text correctly !!


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: virtuali on October 06, 2019, 10:52:15 AM
read my text correctly !!

I don't know what you are trying to say here ( I've edited your post, because you quoted the whole message wrong, making it unreadable ) but, it's clear the only one not reading text correctly, is you.

I don't know in how many other different ways I can explain that:

- BOTH GSX vehicles and default ground vehicles will use vehicle paths, if the scenery has them.

- BOTH GSX vehicles and default ground vehicles will use taxiways, if the scenery doesn't have vehicle paths.

- Some 3rd party airports can come with custom ground traffic that doesn't use the AFCAD vehicle paths, but has its own internal database of paths, so they can follow the correct lines even if they are not in the AFCAD.

This has been proven in all cases:

1) At a default airport (your video from default KORD), which show a default ground vehicle using vehicle paths, thanks to the fact the default AFCAD from KORD DOES have vehicle paths.

2) At a 3rd party airport (my screenshots from EDDP), which show a custom ground vehicle using the vehicle paths, even if the AFCAD doesn't have them, because it uses a different animation method that doesn't rely on the AFCAD

3) At a 3rd party airport (my screenshots from EDDP), which show a default ground vehicle using the taxiways, BECAUSE the AFCAD doesn't have vehicle paths.

Really, I don't know how I could explain it any better than this, and it's clear GSX vehicles behave just like default ground traffic, in the way they BOTH need vehicle paths in the AFCAD, otherwise they will use taxiways. Normal, obvious, and reasonable.


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 06, 2019, 04:04:58 PM
i dont find any vehicle path  ???


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: torsten on October 06, 2019, 04:14:42 PM
btw, i found a little program which removes the engine start question.
If anyone want it, let me know here


Title: Re: Short Question...
Post by: virtuali on October 07, 2019, 11:48:14 AM
i dont find any vehicle path 

I don't know what you are referring to now. Your video about default KORD ? I assure you it DOES have vehicle paths, that's why it works.