FSDreamTeam forum

Products Support => Los Angeles support FSX/P3D => Topic started by: mseder on September 26, 2019, 12:48:39 AM



Title: No ILS KLAX **not an FSDT problem**
Post by: mseder on September 26, 2019, 12:48:39 AM
Hi

I just discovered that no ILS (frequences) works except for 24L/06R, really weird.
Addon tells me everything is installed and fine and the visual scenery is there etc
Where should I start looking?

FSX (no steam) + KLAX V2

Regards
Mats Sederholm


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: virtuali on September 26, 2019, 03:26:32 PM
Which airplane you use ? Have you tried tuning the ILS by frequency with a default airplane ? Some 3rd party airplanes don't use the scenery, but rely on the FMC database to find ILS.


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: mseder on September 26, 2019, 04:56:26 PM
Hi

I've tried with QualityWings 787 + PMDG 737 + Built in 737
I also attached the runways.txt but only with rerferences to klax and in the same order as in the runways.txt

Mats


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: virtuali on September 26, 2019, 06:35:01 PM
Quote
I've tried with QualityWings 787 + PMDG 737 + Built in 737

See in my attached screenshots all the ILS working (you said 6R works for you, so I haven't checked it), with the default 737.

Quote
I also attached the runways.txt but only with rerferences to klax and in the same order as in the runways.txt

That shows both the default KLAX, the AFCAD from Aerosoft cities AFCAD (which you will probably have to remove ) and the FSDT AFCAD for KLAX all contain the ILS so, there's no reason why they shouldn't work, unless it's caused by the conflicting file.


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: mseder on September 26, 2019, 07:14:26 PM
Hi

Thanks so far.

Before I remove that Aerosoft cities AFCAD and test it again let me ask, what do I need to just bring FSDT KLAX out of any influence for FSX?
Aerosoft cities I can just uninstall.

I mean maybe I have to go back to a clean add-on situation just to make sure something works.

Mats


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: virtuali on September 26, 2019, 07:15:47 PM
Before I remove that Aerosoft cities AFCAD and test it again let me ask, what do I need to just bring FSDT KLAX out of any influence for FSX? Aerosoft cities I can just uninstall.

Try removing just the Aerosoft AFCAD, nothing else.


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: mseder on September 28, 2019, 12:33:18 PM
Hi

Renamed UsCities file AF2_KLAX.bgl to AF2_KLAX.exclude
FSX was triggered and built a new database
Extract from current runways text with only klax data attached

Still ILS not working.

So I guess FSDT to be removed next?! Best way?

Mats


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: Dave_YVR on September 29, 2019, 03:20:15 AM
I just went and checked mine as well, all 6 ILS frequencies working just fine. Check your KLAX_AP.bgl file in ADE and see for yourself!


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: mseder on September 29, 2019, 02:17:28 PM
It doesn't help me. I got a problem that must be fixed and I have to to this very carefully and metodic.
I can upload a video from my aircraft , having you watching me switching from ILS-freq to ILS freq and only see that just one (if e.g. the aircraft is on the westside of KLAX) is triggering the ILS,  but I guess that won't help anyone, right?

So, what is the best way to just have FSDT KLAX V2 just don't getting involved?


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: virtuali on September 30, 2019, 12:08:51 PM
Check your KLAX_AP.bgl file in ADE and see for yourself!

He already did that and, in fact, the log file he posted clearly show all ILS are present in the FSDT KLAX AFCAD so, clearly, the problem cannot be the scenery.


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: mseder on September 30, 2019, 03:04:54 PM
"He already did that"

No he didn't, he, just like you, try to tell me that nothing is wrong with FSDT KLX V2 and that it has nothing to do with my problem, and that might very well be the case but I need to check out things by myself. I need to test every possible scenario even the "impossible" ones, that is how debugging is managed!
So for the third and last time, would you kindly tell me the simplest way how to "deactivate" FSDT KLX V2.

Mats



Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: virtuali on September 30, 2019, 04:04:17 PM
No he didn't, he, just like you, try to tell me that nothing is wrong with FSDT KLX V2 and that it has nothing to do with my problem

?? I was talking about you. YOUR log shows KLAX AFCAD from FSDT has the correct ILS in place so, exactly as I've said, you already checked the AFCAD, which is fine.

Quote
So for the third and last time, would you kindly tell me the simplest way how to "deactivate" FSDT KLX V2

What's wrong with just uninstalling ?


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: mseder on September 30, 2019, 04:26:51 PM
"YOUR log shows KLAX AFCAD from FSDT has the correct ILS in place so, exactly as I've said, you already checked the AFCAD, which is fine."
I'm aware of that, still it doesn't work and this seems really weird.

"What's wrong with just uninstalling ?"
I guess nothing is wrong with that if you say so, I just want to do as little as possible as I'm not planning to give up on your product.
Maybe disable it as a scenery would be another choice, or deactivate it from the Add-on manager, you tell me.

I'll uninstall it then.


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: mseder on September 30, 2019, 05:08:24 PM
Uninstalled from control-panel "remove programs"
The runways.txt now only refers to the built in KLAX but still no change

In the Add-on Manager Los Angeles V2 still shows up though.
I deactivated it.

Now how exactly should the file structure look like?

Under my program files there is an Addon Manager folder (...\ProgramFiles\Addon Manager) containing:
folders: couatl, effects, simobjects, Fsdreamteam (containing 2 airports not KLAX) and another Addon Manager folder!?

This Addon manager (...\ProgramFiles\Addon Manager\Addon Manager)  contains:
folders: couatl, effects, simobjects, Flightbeam, Scripts, Sound, texture and Fsdreamteam  containing plenty of airports including KLAX_V2

Does this really seem like a correct installation and why do I have a KLAX_V2 there?


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: virtuali on September 30, 2019, 05:15:28 PM
Quote
In the Add-on Manager Los Angeles V2 still shows up though.

If with "shows up", you mean present in the list, it's normal it would be there, together with all the other FSDT sceneries you don't have.

If with "shows up", you mean it's listed as Installed, then it's a problem, because it shouldn't, since the uninstaller uninstalled it.

Quote
I deactivated it.

Not required, since activating the license won't have any effect on the actual installation of the scenery in the sim.

Quote
Under my program files there is an Addon Manager folder (...\ProgramFiles\Addon Manager) containing:
folders: couatl, effects, simobjects, Fsdreamteam (containing 2 airports not KLAX) and another Addon Manager folder!?

Another Addon Manager folder inside the main one it's surely wrong.  You must have caused this at a certain point, when you installed something, and instead of accepting the default folder, change it, and manually browsed a folder INSIDE an existing Addon Manager installation so, it created another Addon Manager inside it.

To undo all of this:

- Uninstall everything from FSDT, sceneries, GSX, etc. Everything.

- Reply YES to the question "Do you want to remove the Addon Manager ?" THIS IS IMPORTANT

- Check the Program files folder and, if you still have an Addon Manager folder anywhere, remove it manually

- Reinstall all the FSDT products you uninstalled in the first step.


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: mseder on September 30, 2019, 07:38:23 PM
All uninstalls and installs done, folders looks correct and airports Active, thank you.

I know this isn't your concern but this KLAX issue really annoys me.
With no Addons installed still the same issue. It identifies the frequency and gives me a correct DME bot no ILS bars in sight except for the localizer which is hanging on one side all the time regardless me passing the course line. As soon I change it to e.g. rwy 6R both bars kicks in and works.


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: Dave_YVR on September 30, 2019, 08:39:50 PM
 Have you by any chance updated your navdata by https://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids3.html

 I have heard that this can cause all sorts of nasty issues similar to what you are experiencing.


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: mseder on September 30, 2019, 11:39:26 PM
Thanks for that suggestion, I ran and installed the latest Navigraph cycle on all my AddOns, no change


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: Dave_YVR on October 01, 2019, 05:49:41 AM
No, that won't do it. It's using the data that I linked above that can cause weird things to happen. Updating Navdata doesn't change scenery files in the sim.


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX
Post by: virtuali on October 01, 2019, 09:54:16 AM
With no Addons installed still the same issue.

I was quite sure KLAX didn't had anything to do with it.


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX **not an FSDT problem**
Post by: mseder on October 01, 2019, 02:43:46 PM
This is my testresults which actually reveals that for the runways in error it catches the ILS for a runway in the opposite direction.
Each frequency only works for ONE Runway. This also explains why I don't get the glideslope for those in error.
Anyone getting an idea?

What differs your FSX from mine Virtuali?
( Well I'm not the only one with KLAX and this problem https://steamcommunity.com/app/314160/discussions/1/622954747294367205/)


RWY   STATUS   FREQ   STATION-ID Received
--------------------------------------------
Default B737

Distance 13-17 NM from KLAX
25L   OK           109,9   ILAX
25R   OK           111.1   ICFN
24L   ERROR   111,7   IGPE?(getting 06R)   
24R   OK           108,5   IOSS


Distance 13-17 and 4-6 NM from KLAX
06L   ERROR   108,5   IOSS?(getting 24R)
06R   OK           111,7   IGPE
07L   ERROR   111,1   ICFN?(getting 25R)
07R   ERROR   109,9   ILAX?(getting 25L)


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX **not an FSDT problem**
Post by: virtuali on October 01, 2019, 03:21:01 PM
That's not an error, that's how the real airport is, both 6R and 24L share the 111.7 frequency, see the attached screenshot, showing they work perfectly fine and are detected with the right ID and with a working glideslope, from both ends of the runway.


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX **not an FSDT problem**
Post by: mseder on October 01, 2019, 04:45:19 PM
"That's not an error"

Not an error?, in my table/testresults Error means that the glideslope and identifier for that ILS is not detectable. That's not an error?!


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX **not an FSDT problem**
Post by: mseder on October 01, 2019, 05:09:55 PM
Dave

OK, get it.

I tried taking use of one of those apps, and edited the ILS BGL files, turning off the BackCourse (on the FSDT KLAX_V2 bgl file) and so the localizer went away but still I couldn't reach the correct "station".


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX **not an FSDT problem**
Post by: Dave_YVR on October 01, 2019, 05:40:45 PM
 If you are using ADE to inspect/edit the ILS's you will also see that they ALL show as stock navaids as in they are what came with the sim and weren't added by the FSDT scenery. If you have conflicting data, it's from some other source. Do you use any AI traffic such as MyTraffic, T360, Traffic Global?


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX **not an FSDT problem**
Post by: mseder on October 01, 2019, 06:17:10 PM
Dave

"and weren't added by the FSDT scenery. "
I haven't ever implied there is something wrong with FSDT!!

But as FSDT KLAX is my "ruling"  scenario of KLAX, I started my investigation here.
And again, this is no longer a FSDT concern, but somewhat couldn't help getting some input to this from here.
And if someone wish to close and lock this thread as solved I can understand that.

"If you have conflicting data, it's from some other source. Do you use any AI traffic such as MyTraffic, T360, Traffic Global?"
I did remove all additional scenarios of KLAX (FSDT and US Cities) and still have this problem with the FSX default KLAX.
After that I'm back to my original setup with FSDT KLAX as the "ruling" scenario.

Well, I'm using Pro ATC X. But even with that  turned off I encounter the problem. Or could that Add On effect this anyway?

I used that ILS Editor to change the frequencies for the non working runways (effecting the FSDT KLAX bgl files) and that solved it temporary at least.



Title: Re: No ILS KLAX **not an FSDT problem**
Post by: virtuali on October 02, 2019, 03:37:19 PM
If you are using ADE to inspect/edit the ILS's you will also see that they ALL show as stock navaids as in they are what came with the sim and weren't added by the FSDT scenery.

Yes, ADE shows them as Stock, but I think it's a confusing indication, because I assure you the KLAX_AP.BGL file *does* contains ILS, which was also confirmed by his initial report posted from makerunways.txt, which listed the ILS coming from 3 different sources, the default KLAX, the Aerosoft Cities KLAX and the FSDT KLAX .BGL files, and they were all matching.

All ILS at KLAX are backcourse, and they are all  flagged as such in the FSDT KLAX .BGL.


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX **not an FSDT problem**
Post by: mseder on October 02, 2019, 06:04:59 PM
All correct Virtuali

That's why I'm back to my original settings with all the 3 KLAX BGL groups (1 built-in 2 USCities 3 FSDT) in the runways.txt but FSDT again, as the prioritized (the last) one.
My manual (Navaid Airport tool)  changes to the ILS, faking separate frequencies to those runways who picked up the wrong station-id  are applied to the FSDT BGL files and works. Well, until the next update of FSDT KLAX I assume.

Virtuali, are your tests really performed with FSX (not Steam)?


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX **not an FSDT problem**
Post by: virtuali on October 02, 2019, 07:35:48 PM
Virtuali, are your tests really performed with FSX (not Steam)?

P3D4, of course, I rarely use FSX nowadays, and I don't have the original FSX installed anymore so, if I really had to check something in FSX, I'll only use FSX:Steam.

Not that this should make any difference, since the AFCAD for KLAX is a native FSX file, compiled with the BGLCOMP.EXE dated Sept. 2007, so it's clearly from the latest regular FSX version ( FSX+SP2 SDK )


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX **not an FSDT problem**
Post by: mseder on October 02, 2019, 11:26:19 PM
OK, then we're running on different code. "Glad" to hear.
The reason for this strange behavior might not only be framed by the content of the BG-file but just as much on how the data is processed = the sim code.
Or do you mean that the piece of code that deals with the BGL is the same for P3D and FSX, a separate binary library code,  a DLL or something?

Mats


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX **not an FSDT problem**
Post by: virtuali on October 03, 2019, 01:07:34 PM
I have no idea of the code inside the sim but, obviously, I would expect FSX should be able to deal with an FSX-native file, and the KLAX FSDT certainly is. But again, haven't you already tested you have the issue even with FSDT KLAX removed ?

Perhaps you just discovered a bug in the old FSX not being able to handle properly Backcourse ILS. I wouldn't be surprised of this, FSX:SE fixed many small bugs like that, and if you use FSX-SP2 (instead of FSX+Acceleration) there are far more serious bugs in the rendering left there, which of course nobody will ever fix.

Surely not a reason enough for us to create a purposely inaccurate scenery that surely works with the latest simulators, just to side step possible bugs of a 13 old sim.


Title: Re: No ILS KLAX **not an FSDT problem**
Post by: mseder on October 03, 2019, 02:10:55 PM
"But again, haven't you already tested you have the issue even with FSDT KLAX removed ?"
Yes, not an FSDT issue

"Perhaps you just discovered a bug in the old FSX not being able to handle properly Backcourse ILS."
That seems to be as close I can get to an explanation after googling around and after some dialogs with people with experience.

"Surely not a reason enough for us to create a purposely inaccurate scenery"
Of course not.

Have you people any input to Flight Simulator 2020 and what that might mean in regards to AddOns etc?