FSDreamTeam forum
Products Support => GSX Support FSX/P3D => Topic started by: quentcor on November 16, 2018, 05:00:44 am
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I have a frustration at Johannesburg OR Tambo Intl airport where the GSX pushback is 'locked' on de-icing, even when the temperature is as high as 34*C. This doesn't make sense. I have tried to change this to a normal pushback without success.
How do I remove the de-icing version of pushback? Where is GSX reading the weather data? I'm using P3D v3.4 and Active Sky 16.
Your help in correcting this pushback anomaly will be much appreciated.
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The problem doesn't have anything to do with GSX, and it has already been explained here:
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,19005.msg132398.html#msg132398
It's likely the metar string sent by Simconnect was malformed for some reason so, as explained in that thread, when this happens, we choose the most sensible solution which is suggesting to deice (since you can always decide NOT to do it), instead of preventing to deice.
This is of course the best solution, since it your airplane simulates icing problems, not offering the chance to deice might be dangerous, when the received metar was malformed during *actual* icing conditions.
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Umberto, would it be possible to include a function to force deice? I use Active Sky and the METAR was LSZH 210520Z VRB01KT 5000 BR OVC007 M00/M01 Q1010 NOSIG
GSX didn't asked for Deice.
With the great FSL and GSX integration it would be nice to force Deice.
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Umberto, would it be possible to include a function to force deice?
See ? I knew this was going to happen, and it's the result of this late change to the code, to prevent users assuming GSX had a bug:
I ASSUMED this was the safest choice but, of course, if it's mistakenly identified as a GSX "bug", maybe it's best to change the code, and block deicing in case of a bad metar report.
The "fix" (which is a downgrade IMHO), is already online in the current Live Update so, you can try it now.
That's why I always said the previous version (allowing deicing when a malformed metar was received), was better...
I use Active Sky and the METAR was LSZH 210520Z VRB01KT 5000 BR OVC007 M00/M01 Q1010 NOSIG
That what you saw in the program, but it doesn't ensure the string received by GSX from Simconnect was exactly like that. If you had logging enabled, the Couatl.LOG should contain a line, indicating the metar string received from Simconnect, and the reason of the error. You should check immediately after the session, because a new Couatl.LOG will be created again on the next start.
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In my opinion it would be make more sense to request deice, like any other services, regardless of the pushback to avoid those issues.
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In my opinion it would be make more sense to request deice, like any other services, regardless of the pushback to avoid those issues.
It's part of the pushback procedure, because it's affects it directly.
The solution we'll add to fix these issues with Simconnect, would probably be reading the temperature variable in addition to the metar string and, if they don't agree, trust the variable and ignore the metar.
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sounds good, maybe you can add a new feature for remote deice for all scenerys, so you can place the remote deice stands through GSX, and call for deice. Would add a lot of immersion. :)
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Umberto,
Can you point us to the specific simconnect issue over on the LM forums or dev forums. I still cannot understand how other add-ons always get the correct outside temp but GSX doesnt. Either read the outside temp from where they (for example PMDG) get it or lets have a chat with the owners of simconnect about what the issue is.
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I still cannot understand how other add-ons always get the correct outside temp but GSX doesnt. Either read the outside temp from where they (for example PMDG) get it or lets have a chat with the owners of simconnect about what the issue is.
I think I already explained it so many times: there are TWO ways of getting the outside temperature:
- Reading JUST the variable, which won't give us the Dew point, since there's NO variable for it
OR
- Asking Simconnect for a Metar report, which will give us BOTH the Temperature AND the Dew point.
Other addons might just read the variable, and that's it but, of course, GSX trying to be as real as possible, use the Dew point to detect possible icing even when the temperature is slightly above 0 (but 7°C or less anyway), so it asks for a Metar report.
As I've said, so many times already, sometimes the Metar report either doesn't arrive, or it's an illegal string or, it simply doesn't match what the temperature outside. The Metar report requires providing with a time/date/timezone and, of course, GSX correctly sends the current local time/date/timezone which it also get from Simconnect so, it's *possible* this might be somewhat related to an issue with either the time/date or the timezone, which sometimes can be wrong as well, as very well known by the existence of several utilities that "fix" the timezone. It's likely that, when a 3rd party weather engine changes the weather, it might not be reported correct in time, so the Metar report we ask might be outdated.
So, in order to stop users from assuming this is a GSX "bug" (it clearly isn't), we'll do this for the next update:
TWO icing detection strategies will be used:
1) The realistic one, reading Metar data from Simconnect, which will allow us to use the Dew point
2) The simpler one, reading only the Ambient Temperature variable.
The Ambient Temperature variable will be read anyway and, the "realistic" strategy will be used ONLY when BOTH temperature readouts (the one from the Metar and the variable itself) agrees the temperature is 7°C or less. This will take into account both the Temperature and Dew point to detect possible icing.
If the standard temperature variable disagree with the temperature reported in the Metar OR if the Metar cannot be read for any reason (illegal string, not getting any report, etc.), the "simpler" strategy will be used instead, which will use only the temperature (the variable) to detect icing so, it would be basically allow deicing only when the temperature is below 0 OR when it's between 0 and 7°C if it's raining/snowing.
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That's a very good idea Umberto! Looking forward to it. Impressive where we are heading with GSX after all those years.
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Umberto, you have the patience of Job. :)
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Gentlemen, the above is all very interesting and has much merit, but none of the comments solve my problem of how to remove a 'stuck' deicing pushback in GSX, even when temperatures and dewpoints are way above the magical 7*C.
Does anyone know where the 'stuck' deicing file is stored, so that I can delete it? I have uninstalled AS16 and set the weather to fair weather inside P3D and still, GSX persists in doing a deicing pushback! I have uninstalled and reinstalled the airport software to clean out any possible corrupted files. No luck!
Can simconnect still be responsible for the 'bug', even when weather is set from the P3D menu without influence from AS16? Perhaps I must uninstall and reinstall GSX and GSX level 2 to see if this gets rid of the irritating issue.
It's weird to be doing a deicing pushback when the sun is blazing outside and dew points and temperatures are in the upper twenties and mid thirties, respectively.
When can we expect the update which will be designed to correct the deicing anomalies?
Regards, Quentin
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Gentlemen, the above is all very interesting and has much merit, but none of the comments solve my problem of how to remove a 'stuck' deicing pushback in GSX, even when temperatures and dewpoints are way above the magical 7*C.
I don't know what do you mean with "stuck".
The only issue this (which is not a GSX bug, as explained, is GSX not able to defend itself adequately from wrong/missing data coming from other weather apps) will cause, and the only issue the update will "fix", is that you won't see needless requests to do deicing anymore. But to these requests, you could always reply NO, so deicing won't come.
So, it's basically just a cosmetic issue, there's nothing "stuck" and nothing will be fixed with the update so, if you have the pushback stuck, the reason might be entirely different, for example a problem with the scenery AFCAD, or GSX asking to do something specific to the airplane config (like removing wheel chocks) and you don't doing that, possibly because you don't see the request, either because you disabled the Information text in the sim, or you turned down the GSX Verbosity setting.
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Umberto, I apologize for the frustration this topic is causing you, but I am equally frustrated trying to correct the matter. Perhaps I should not have used the word 'bug' when I opened the topic. GSX is fantastic software and it was never my intention to imply it had a bug. There is one or other corrupted data in my setup which is preventing GSX from working correctly at only one airport, namely, FAOR. At every other airport GSX works perfectly.
What I mean by 'stuck' is that the only menu GSX gives at this troublesome airport is the deicing options menu, despite temperatures and dew points being substantially higher than 7*C. As I said, I have uninstalled AS16 so it can no longer affect weather in the sim. I have set the weather menu in the sim to figures which cannot possibly require deicing. I have reinstalled the airport software and the afcad file. All of this has had no effect on GSX. The pushback menu only gives the deicing options and I don't know where GSX is getting the information which causes the deicing menu to come up every time.
It will be a massive task to uninstall and reinstall GSX and Level 2 and configure GSX at all the airports I fly to and there is no certainty that this would correct whatever is causing GSX to give only a deicing option pushback menu at FAOR. If there is no way to reset the GSX pushback menu at FAOR, then I will just have to live with what I have at this airport.
Regards, Quentin
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Hello Umberto,
Just wanted to clarify the above, you said that GSX receives its weather through SimConnect. You then went on to say that "GSX is not able to defend itself from other weather apps." Does that mean that GSX is also receiving METAR data from an addon like Active Sky then using that to determine temp/dew point?
Thank you.
Robert
HiFi Simtech
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Just wanted to clarify the above, you said that GSX receives its weather through SimConnect. You then went on to say that "GSX is not able to defend itself from other weather apps." Does that mean that GSX is also receiving METAR data from an addon like Active Sky then using that to determine temp/dew point?
GSX is only reading the Metar for the active airport through Simconnect, it doesn't try to read it in any other way or possibly directly from other applications, it just assume that, anything that set the weather in a certain way, would affect the Metar report received through Simconnect.
The only reason to read the Metar is to get the Dew point but, since the Temperature is also there, it reads both from the Metar and, in any case the Metar is missing or corrupted, it always allows deicing, which user can always decide not to perform (so it's better than deny deicing in case of doubt)
That's why with the next update, we'll read the standard Temperature variable AND the Metar and, if they don't agree, we'll trust the Temperature variable over the Temperature read from Metar, and will just ignore the Dew point in that case.
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I've been getting the deicing thing at FlightBeam DEN for weeks now and it's June 28th!!! That's just ridiculous!! How can I turn off the deicing option in GSX???
Btw, Why not have the deicing feature just run from December thru March?
Bruce
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I've been getting the deicing thing at FlightBeam DEN for weeks now and it's June 28th!!! That's just ridiculous!!
How can I turn off the deicing option in GSX???
By saying "no" to it, when asked ?
Haven't you even read the explanation, and why this was obviously made on purpose, when Metar (usually from 3rd party weather engines) comes corrupted or missing ?
Btw, Why not have the deicing feature just run from December thru March?[
Please read the explanation, which says how we'll deal with this missing data in the upcoming update.
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Yes, I did read the posts regarding this, before posting!!
When you say *NO* to it you still get instructions about --- *due to icing conditions don't start engines until pushback is completed and parking brake is set!* Like I said That's ridiculous! I don't want to hear anything about icing after March!
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Icing condition exists regardless of month of the year. So it is rediculous to have a deicing feature running based at date.
regards
Torben
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Icing conditions on the ground??? In June? Are you joking? ::) Where do you live?
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Icing conditions on the ground??? In June? Are you joking? ::) Where do you live?
Please stop about this nonsense about preventing the bogus icing condition caused by missing Metar data using 3rd party weather addons based on the date (and no, not everybody flies in the temperate zone in the Northern Hemisphere...).
The thread I linked, which you said you read, clearly explain how this will change in the next update, and it should be obvious why that's the proper approach.
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ENSB 291850Z 12011KT 9999 FEW027 BKN040 04/M01 Q1006 RMK WIND 1400FT 08010KT
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ENSB 291850Z 12011KT 9999 FEW027 BKN040 04/M01 Q1006 RMK WIND 1400FT 08010KT
I don't know what you are trying to say here. That's a Metar report. That doesn't automatically mean GSX got THIS same report from Simconnect, which is the issue I already explained, so many times.
And again, why keep insisting on this ?
We already fixed this, and the thread I linked so many times, clearly explains what GSX will do when the Temperatjure it got from a Simconnect Metar Report and the Temperature it got from a Simconnect Variable are NOT in agreement, it will trust the temperature in the Simconnect Variable rather than the temperature in the Metar which has been proven to be possibly unreliable, especially when using 3rd party weather engines.
And in this case, it will use a simpler de-icing detection, based only on temperature, rather than Temperature+Dew Point as it normally does. The Dew Point doesn't have a Simconnect Variable and the only way to get it is from the Simconnect Metar.
I really don't understand what's more to add, I tried to condense the previous linked thread that apparently nobody wants to read or understand in a sentence as short as possible, and I don't know what else to do to stop people assuming this is a GSX bug, when we already explained countless of times that, when the Metar is missing/corrupted/outdated, we purposely decided to ALLOW a de-icing you can always reject, rather than PREVENT a de-icing that you might NEED and don't have a chance to call if GSX doesn't allow it.
The update is not far away, since Esellerate will close down on Monday...
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Hi Virtuali
I only tried to point out to BTScott that icing condition might appear in any month of the year somewhere on Earth and as GSX is used by people from all over the World, so a date-based icimg condition on-off setting is not going to work. I simply took a current metar, which showed low temperature (unfortunately no percipitation but obviously this could have been the case, too) and thus possible icing condition exists. I could probably also have looked into an Alaskan airfield or an airfield in the Southern Hemisphere for icing condition to be found.
I'm sure you'll find a workable solution to the discrepancy between the metar I recieve from my weather program and the string send via simconnect. Why they might be different I just wonder.
Looking forward to the update.
regards
Torben
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I only tried to point out to BTScott that icing condition might appear in any month of the year somewhere on Earth and as GSX is used by people from all over the World, so a date-based icimg condition on-off setting is not going to work.
Ok, sorry, I didn't look at it carefully enough.
I'm sure you'll find a workable solution to the discrepancy between the metar I recieve from my weather program and the string send via simconnect. Why they might be different I just wonder.
We don't have any idea why the two don't match. That's only one of the two possible cases when we enable deicing if not sure about the data. The other is the Metar not even arriving, or being updated, maybe because the weather engine set a new weather and GSX asked for it before it could be updated by Simconnect.
And as I've said, too many times, we already found a workable solution for the upcoming update, which has been explained plenty of times, last time in my previous post.
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I have solved this problem without installing the update! If anyone is interested go into the GSX Folder inside the Addon Manager folder and remove the Wave sound file start_before_push_ice_warning. The *Due to icing conditions ----- * aural warning goes away and push back works normally. Unfortunately the warning still shows in the text on the green ribbon at the top of the screen, but there is no aural warning. Works for me! Wish there was a way to turn off those annoying text narratives!
Due to the enormous amount of problems with the update, for FSX that is, I won't be installing it.
Bruce
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I have solved this problem without installing the update! If anyone is interested go into the GSX Folder inside the Addon Manager folder and remove the Wave sound file start_before_push_ice_warning. The *Due to icing conditions ----- * aural warning goes away and push back works normally. Unfortunately the warning still shows in the text on the green ribbon at the top of the screen, but there is no aural warning. Works for me! Wish there was a way to turn off those annoying text narratives!
Actually, if you go into the GSX settings and set the Verbosity to 0, it turns it off.
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Due to the enormous amount of problems with the update, for FSX that is, I won't be installing it.
Your comment is obsolete, because it was made based on a cursory reading of the initial problems, without checking WHAT caused them and HOW they were eventually fixed, because they obviously have. The update works just fine FSX and there are no problems with it anymore.
So, the proper approach is, install it and, if YOU still have problems, report them.
Obviously the supposed "deicing bug" has been "fixed" in the update.
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Kevin -- I would assume that if you set the verbosity to 0 it would mute the rest of the narrative as well. I don't want to do that.
Umberto -- You are correct. I did not read all the threads and so I don't know what has been fixed in FSX. I just figured with 5 or so pages of problems there must be some real problems that will take quite a while to fix. I thought you would be overwhelmed and it would take a month or so to sort it out. I'll give it some more time and then roll the dice! You are a brilliant and creative developer, without question! Condescending to the point of insulting at times, but brilliant just the same! ;D
Btw, is there a way to turn off/on the green text line at the top?
Bruce
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Btw, is there a way to turn off/on the green text line at the top?
With the Verbosity slider. There might be a couple of places were the green text line doesn't use the Verbosity slider, so it might be helpful if you could make a list of which message you wanted to suppress.
Note that, not all these messages comes from GSX, and the Verbosity slider it's a GSX Settings so, for example, there's no way to turn off messages like "Trial period expired" for a scenery, since they are not coming from GSX.
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Well, I was thinking eliminate it entirely so that you only hear the aural dialogue and sounds. I haven't thought it through entirely, so there may be some instances, like reminders to close the door, or operate the jetway, etc. when some action has apparently been forgotten by the simmer, and eliminate the rest of the advisories that don't really need to be displayed, such as how many passengers have been boarded?? Those type aren't really necessary to complete the process underway. They are meaningless info.
Bruce