FSDreamTeam forum
Products Support => GSX Support FSX/P3D => Topic started by: tf51d on July 20, 2012, 04:51:59 am
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I've been looking at videos of pushbacks, and I haven't found one the way GSX does it. Let me explain. GSX after the pushback disconnects the tow bar then returns to the gate in forward motion, pushing the towbar. From all the real world videos I've seen this is not done. Either the the tow vehicle will back itself back to the gate pulling the towbar, or the towbar will be disconnected from the tow vehicle, the tow vehicle will reverse itself then reconnect at the other end pulling the tow bar. (Usually with the bigger enclosed tow vehicles). Now I know the latter is probably too complicated for FSX (Although it would be some cool animation) Just backing the vehicle back would be possible and more realistic. Here's a real world example
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Now I know the latter is probably too complicated for FSX (Although it would be some cool animation)
It's surely quite complex, and that's the reason why we haven't made it. Also because some vehicles don't have a towbar in the first place.
Just backing the vehicle back would be possible and more realistic. Here's a real world example
That might be possible. Note that some vehicles have a reversable driving cabin, so the driver won't have to drive backwards.
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On another note, maybe the direction of the push can be adjusted to a more logical one. And by that I mean that if you choose a left pushback, then it makes sense that the nose of the airplane ends up in the left direction and vice versa. This way it's much easier to remember how you want to end up after the pushback is done.
Jon
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..if you choose a left pushback, then it makes sense that the nose of the airplane ends up in the left direction..
If you choose a left push, its the tail that goes left, not the nose. Push left, nose right.
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..if you choose a left pushback, then it makes sense that the nose of the airplane ends up in the left direction..
If you choose a left push, its the tail that goes left, not the nose. Push left, nose right.
I happen to agree with that. I feel it is more intuitive to have left push mean tail left and push right means tail right as with that you are actually getting pushed to the left or the right.
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I guess this is just personal preference. I would prefer the way I have described it. Maybe it should be considered as an option so everybody can choose his or her own liking.
Jon
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GSX uses the same logic as the default keyboard turning commands in MSFS, so changing that logic would not be a good idea. (A couple of the popular add-on aircraft have confused this issue by reversing that logic in their built-in pushback features.) As you will recall, in MSFS you press Shift+P to initiate the pushback, then you press 1 to turn left, 2 to turn right. The logic is easy to remember if you ask yourself which direction you would turn the nosewheel to accomplish the desired turn. Turning the nosewheel to the left while reversing causes the tail to turn left, so you would request a left turn in GSX; turning the nosewheel to the right would make the tail turn to the right, so request a right turn in GSX.
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I happen to use AES for the pushback sometimes, and being used to that logic (which is logic in my opinion), it makes it much easier to remember which way you want to end up. Pushback to the left, means you end up facing left and vice versa. Can't be any simpler than that.
But since everybody has his/her own preferences (and logic), I guess it's not really a good topic for debate. Better to make it an option so everybody is happy :)
Jon
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Maybe it should be considered as an option so everybody can choose his or her own liking.
I think that is definitely a good idea if it is doable on FSDT's part (and enough people express interest). It could be in the GSX menu or something and it would just be inverse output on GSX's part.
Regardless, I'm happy how it is but I can understand if some are confused as the term pushback left or right is naturally ambiguous.
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Regardless, I'm happy how it is but I can understand if some are confused as the term pushback left or right is naturally ambiguous.
Which is why, the GSX manual as a diagram explain what Pushback Left/Right means, which can't be misunderstood in any way.
And, as already noted, GSX uses the same convention as default FSX. Since GSX reads the AFCAD for the pushback preference and that is obviously based on the FSX standard (and GSX is the same), reversing it would be VERY confusing, both for users and for scenery developers.
Imagine opening a scenery AFCAD with ADE/AFX and reading a "Left" pushback: if GSX worked in the opposite way, you would need to force yourself thinking "ok, the AFCAD says Left, but this means Right in GSX, or maybe not, depending how I've set my preference".
Sorry, no, this doesn't make any sense, and we also don't have any intention of having to always ask people that report a problem with Pushback "what's your setting for Left/Right", it will be a support nightmare.
So no, the GSX Pushback will remain as it is now, respecting the FSX standard convention.
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Then AES pushback is the winner for me :)
Jon
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Last time I used AES push, it worked the same way. You select left, the tail goes left.
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I'm glad it's not being changed. All I meant was that while the FSX term itself is naturally confusing (prompting the nose left or tail left? question), I am pleased how you and the FSDT team handled it for GSX. You kept it in line with the standard FS settings/commands and that was a good move as it makes it much more intuitive.
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Then AES pushback is the winner for me :)
I think I've already explained quite clearly the reasoning behind this: GSX reads the FSX AFCAD, which is made following the FSX standard, so it HAS to follow it too.
That other products has decided to reverse comparing to the FSX standard, is obviously not enough reason to do the same in GSX too.
For those that are confused, we can EASILY change the Pushback LABEL like this:
"Left" might become "LEFT (Tail Left/Nose Right)"
"Right" will be "RIGHT (Tail Right/Nose Left)"
This can be done, but reversing the logic compared to FSX standard, doesn't make ANY sense.
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Last time I used AES push, it worked the same way. You select left, the tail goes left.
Then you probably have a different version than I have :D Because if you choose a left pushback in AES, and you're sitting in the cockpit, you end up facing left with the gate on your right side after the push.
Jon
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If we have different versions, its you who's outdated. I've got the latest release. :D
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If you have the latest version, you clearly don't know the difference between left and right. ;D Left is where your thumb is on the right and right is where your thumb is on the left, right?
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All I know is I selected push left and my nose went right, which I believe is the correct way.
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I reccon the menu could be improved with the addition of a single word. "Tail". aka "Tail Left or Tail Right".
There's been a couple of times when I'v double reverse logic'ed myself on vatsim where I go "Now I must remember that I need to select "Left" to face Right" then get ATC instructions based on tail position.
At which point I think to myself "I have to do the opposite of what I'd normally intuitivley think". But I operate the GSX Manual opposite to what I'd normally intuitivley think too... so I end up reversing my reversal and pushing back the wrong way :P
Is there any way to manually edit this by any chance? Having the word "Tail" there would assist me at least (I know the Left/Right isn't referring to Nose direction, but sometimes I forget.) ;D
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Is there any way to manually edit this by any chance? Having the word "Tail" there would assist me at least (I know the Left/Right isn't referring to Nose direction, but sometimes I forget.)
You can't edit it, but we can fix it very easily, just wait a bit, because we are in the middle of a large update now (the new interactive Airplane Editor, which is going to be very nice), and we can't publish a small update right now, risking breaking something else.
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I think that would be an acceptable compromise. I sincerely hope that you will at least include the words "nose left" and "nose right" alongside the "tail" words in the menu label.
Jon
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the way i remember is
"Left"
I will end up to the left of the current position
"Right"
I will end up right of the current position
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I really feel the pain of all this confusion but in the real world GSX has it CORRECT. GSX responds to the PIC push back direction. My United Airlines at friend who is a ground lead at ORD, explained it to me. GSX responds from the "grounds" standpoint, do you want to face left for the pushback for him, that's right to the pilot. The problem here is that we all operate as the PIC in the cockpit, when pushing back, therefore we get all confused. I for one have my taxi paths determined on my flight plan, when I know i want to have my nose pointed left at the end of pushback, I make a note on the plan that means right. ???
Sounds silly but when a problem comes up as many times as this one, it seems that Umberto and team should make a menu notation, NOSE DIRECTION at end of pushback. I know to the GSX development team they are absolutely correct the way it is now, BUT us cockpit drivers don't understand. Now if you really wanted to make this difficult, my United friend told me the what the real world words are during pushback is "tail north, south etc"
As I said earlier in my suggestion that the menu just be changed to the direction that the cockpit driver want's his nose pointing at the end of pushback..
Bob
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I've already changed the labels in our internal version, which will be pushed with the next update, as follows:
1 - LEFT - (Tail Left - Nose Right)
2 - RIGHT - (Tail Right - Nose Left)
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That's great Umberto should solve all this confusion. You lead a GREAT team and a GREAT product.
Bob
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Gsx works on every fsx airports where as aes you need to purchase at each airport
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Gsx works on every fsx airports where as aes you need to purchase at each airport
... you don't say! :o And this has what to do with pushback directions? ???