FSDreamTeam forum
General Category => Unofficial F/A-18 Acceleration Pack board => Topic started by: GOONIE on August 10, 2011, 05:55:45 pm
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"Auto landings will one day become the standard way to recover on the CVN. A pass flown manually will be an emergency!"
WTF >:(
Thought I would share this month's link to the LSO newsletter and Approach Magazine. The newsletter discusses a new landing system, the bedford array and ship stabilized velocity indicator and future navy, with an autolanding only fleet. This autoland goal is to reduce expense (flights/$fuel) by not requiring FCLPs and/or carrier currency and quals.
http://www.hrana.org/documents/PaddlesMonthlyAugust2011.pdf
http://safetycenter.navy.mil/
-CAPT
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Even F/A-18C has autoland its nothing new they also have tested autorefuel with the basket not sure if that will ever be added to next gen aircraft.
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Even F/A-18C has autoland its nothing new they also have tested autorefuel with the basket not sure if that will ever be added to next gen aircraft.
Subs, I am not surprised by the autoland capability on the hornet, even the A-6E had autoland capability, what I am surprised by is the LSO saying autolandings will become THE normal way to fly an approach, and a hand flown carrier approach will become the emergency case. Seems backwards, and I am not a fan.
-Capt
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Yeah that does sound backwards and lazy.
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Will be interesting to see the effect on night carrier landing ops with this DAS + HMDS combo. JPALS is the new key to very precise auto landings BTW.
Three-Dimensional Warriors
http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/SLD3-DWarrior.pdf (3Mb)
The Distributed Aperture System and 360-Degree Situational Awareness p.24
"SLD: How does the new helmet for the F-35 interact with the DAS?
Rossi: The DAS provides 360-degree NAFLIR (Navigation Forward Looking Infrared) capability.
So if you think about it we’re out there staring at the world. We have all this information. We can then take and post-process where the pilot is looking on his helmet. We also have an auxiliary channel where he can dial in any particular sector that he wants to keep track of and we can give him near 20/20 IR imagery of the world about him.
So now night landings on carriers are fully enabled. We show this stuff to Navy pilots and they’re just awestruck that they can even see the horizon, let alone the boat out there and the wake...."
http://attach.high-g.net/attachments/das_jsf_tailhook07brief_287.jpg
FROM: F-35 Tail Hook.ppt (4.6Mb)
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_download-id-12218.html
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Theres more to it than that:
EO DAS not only turns the night into day but it also does alot of other stuff as well such as target/friendlys show up in the helmet red/green etc when they're in a dogfight. (also if they are below cockpit view)
I never thought of it for Carrierops use though I can imagine that it'll be far better than IR goggles.
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SUBS17, I have been interested in gathering information about the F-35 (and the F-35B in particular because possibility one day it might be used on new RAN LHDs) but the RN FAA changing over to the C model put a big dent in the development of the SRVL for the F-35B for example. Anyway the 4.4GB PDF online has an F-35 section which is available separately now (not all of it - just the 100Mb part) here:
"F-35_471Pages_05jul2011+extraVideos" 100Mb in the 'My Documents' Folder
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=cbcd63d6340707e6&sa=761824345&ppud=4#
Not only is there information about the F-35 but how it may be 'deck landed' in both the F-35B & C models. Early days for all of that though, interesting to see results of USS Wasp trials next month for the B model.
One part that is missing is a recent mention of the 'Bedford Array' (seen in the same LSO PDF at the beginning of this thread). The 'Array' was important for SRVL but probably less so for F-35C carrier ops but who knows. The F-35 is revolutionary in many ways perhaps not known even to potential users at this stage (OK maybe I don't know because that information is not yet public). ;D
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What I do know of the F35 is that it has 7 channel surround sound speakers in the helmet and when someone speaks it comes out the direction that they are located. This also applys to RWR warnings etc. I wonder if the RAN version will still be stealth or will it be semi-stealth as mentioned in the news a few years back. Bit of a rip off if they do that.
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Hmmm, not now sure if the particular page about 'semi-stealth' for furriners is in the PDF online but it is in the 4.4GB PDF. I could repeat the text here but for sure there is no distinction between aircraft for US or others. There are slight differences between the models in the family as one would expect because each of the three has a slightly different 'outer mold line' ('slightly' perhaps should read something stronger). And there will be slight differences when the Norwegians get a 'brake chute' installed for example on their F-35As.
Inevitably there is a lot of misinformation and lies on the web about the F-35. Yes it has had issues that are well known and documented; with a lot of 'unknowns' about how good it is, not in the public domain as one would expect. I don't propose to rebut the B/S onine about it - just present what is public knowledge and not in dispute (except by the anti-JSF crowd).
What a lot of people against the F-35 believe is based on lack of imagination IMHO about the new possibilities it will bring. Onesuch we highlight on this thread now. I'll say no more on the F-35 here except about the 'carrier landing' or SRVL aspects (I guess vertical landing should be included - to date there have been 130 - all pilots say VL is easy - especially compared to the Harrier if they have that experience). The F-35B can 'auto land' VL also.
Anyway this forum is about the FSX Accel Hornet so I'll stop right there. ;D
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A classic F-35 pilot quote about how easy it is to VL the F-35B (from a Hornet pilot so therefore relevant?):
http://www.sldinfo.com/the-f-35-pilot/
"...Another USMC test pilot, indeed last year’s test pilot of the year, “Squirt” Kelly told us what he had learned since our visit last year:
What I have learned for sure since your last visit is how to do a vertical landing. As an F-18 pilot, I don’t have any background in hovering or operating in that whole STOVL world. With probably fewer hours than a guy is going to have going through the training command and doing this through the simulator training to the flight, it was easy.
For guys graduating out of the training command, it was a process of learning step-by-step, follow the procedures, and hover. You can let go of the controls. It just kind of stays where you put it.
QUESTION: So it is not Harrier like at all
Kelly: Not at all. In a hover and in a vertical landing, it’s a no-brainer. It’s push the stick forward. There’s even a descent button in the stick, which you use. The airplane lands itself.
It is very much forgiving to a guy who’s doing it for the first time, and it makes him look good. In a hover and in a vertical landing it’s a no-brainer."
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Semi stealth as in the RCS of a basketball was on the news a year or so ago for all export versions, hopefully they went and changed it to the same as the US version.
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SUBS17, you seem determined to get this thread scrubbed. All the F-35 stealth is the same have a look at the material online rather than just repeat your nonsense.
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A few years ago there was a big crisis in the development of the F35 because the US decided to make the export versions RADAR CROSS SECTION that of a basketball size. It was not well recieved by either the UK or Australia or its other export customers. To compare a basketball RCS to the F117 has an RCS of that of a pebble. Hopefully that explains it a bit better I'm not trying to scrub any threads as I like the F35 as well.
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SUBS17 you can repeat B/S here without any reference all you like. At least I provide references. Yes I have not provided specific references because for one thing this forum is about the Hornet and this thread is about 'automatic landings' (by F-35) and plenty of earlier threads have been scrubbed because they are not about the Hornet. I can see you have not read the F-35 material provided online.
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Its not actual BS, just a very old topic that I read a few years ago it mentioned a few other problems with the JSF including the US refusing to allow other countrys the source code as well. About the same time it was mentioned somewhere of the export JSF having an RCS of a basketball. I now know however that the JSF RCS is actually a steel golf ball which is quite good. Not as good as the F/A-22/F117 which is a pebble. Its early days yet and no doubt the Basketball RCS may have been a rumour on one of the many forums I frequent which is why I mentioned it. Compare the export version to Russian exports they are normally not as good as the Russian version(Eritrea-Ethiopea war comes to mind) thank fully though the differences now are probably the other features which never get mentioned.
The software thing could be a problem for auto-landing and Hotas/MFD functions but it looks like the JSF has plug n play for versions like the IDF which have some of their own special gadgets on most of their aircraft types.
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Well at least you have acknowledged the B/S now. There are several instances over the years of news reports of 'export stealth' which is a phrase that means 'stealth which can be exported' and all the F-35s will have this same stealth. Anyone misinterpreting this aspect has had senior F-35 officials correct them on these several occasions. Firstly stop frequenting B/S forums and go to F-16.net. You will see me there ;D and can argue with me there. References (from the PDF online) to these (many - not all cited here) B/S refutations/corrections are:
Random 10 List: Things I learned on the F-35 factory tour
By Stephen Trimble on May 22, 2009
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2009/05/random-10-list-things-i-learne.html
“3. Frontal-aspect radar cross section on F-35 will be no different for international variant, whatever Boeing may claim”
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F-35 Partners Get Equal Stealth: Le Bourget, France — John A. Tirpak 6/24/2011
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/DRArchive/Pages/2011/June%202011/June%2024%202011/F-35PartnersGetEqualStealth.aspx
“International partners on the F-35 will enjoy a stealth capability on the fighter equal to that of the US versions, according to F-35 program office officials. Maj. Gen. C.D. Moore, deputy director of the F-35 program office, gave a non-committal answer during a press conference here this week at the Paris Air Show when a reporter asked about the level of stealth available to foreign users.
International reporters have long hinted that the United States would hold back some capability. However in a subsequent statement issued by the F-35 program office, officials said "the quick answer to the statement regarding partners being less stealthy than the US is 'no.' (Partners will have same capability)." The program officials noted that the stealth aspects of some partner versions will vary slightly due to their inclusion of some unique gear, such as drag chutes, but it is "a program objective to not impact [low-observable] characteristics. It is our intent to produce a common solution to ensure interoperability for coalition operations as well as production affordability.”
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And I'll not respond further on this thread. See you on F-16.net F-35 forum.
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That information was years ago and it was one of many things people didn't like about the F35, yes I do visit F-16.net occassionally and yes the information you just put up was released after the RCS and other stuff was mentioned on other forums.
Firstly stop frequenting B/S forums
You know although I cannot dig up the actual link to where that export stealth information came from, don't you think that there is a reason why it is mentioned at all on the links you just posted? Perhaps it was in response to something mentioned elsewhere ;).
Like the B/S forums I visit, well I wonder where that rumour originated? ;D
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Years ago? How about a few months ago. Usually the rumour starts with the gaggle of journalists at the Paris Airshow. See above
F-35 Partners Get Equal Stealth: Le Bourget, France — John A. Tirpak 6/24/2011
Again - take this discussion somewhere else. Thanks. OUT.
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Flight Control Software to Help Pilots Stick Landings Aboard Carrier Decks
(NAVY NEWS SERVICE 20 OCT 11) ... Grace Jean, Office of Naval Research
www.physorg.com/pdf238342703.pdf (29Kb)
OR
http://hrana.org/news.asp#FlightControlSoftware
ARLINGTON, Va. -- Select pilots in early 2012 will commence testing new flight control software, funded in part by the Office of Naval Research (ONR), intended to facilitate aircraft landings on Navy carrier decks with unprecedented accuracy.
"The precision that we can bring to carrier landings in the future will be substantial," said Michael Deitchman, deputy chief of naval research for naval air warfare and weapons. "The flight control algorithm has the potential to alter the next 50 years of how pilots land on carrier decks."
Navy and Marine Corps aviators conducting carrier landings today line up with a moving flight deck in a complicated process. They must constantly adjust their speed and manipulate the aircraft's flight control surfaces-ailerons, rudders and elevators-to maintain the proper glide path and alignment to the flight deck for an arrested landing. Throughout their approach, pilots eye a set of lights-known as the Fresnel lens-located on the left side of the ship. It signals whether they are coming in too high or too low.
The new algorithm embedded in the flight control software augments the landing approach. Coupled with an experimental shipboard light system called a Bedford Array and accompanying cockpit heads-up display symbols, the software ties the movement of the pilot's control stick directly to the aircraft's flight path. Instead of constantly adjusting the plane's trajectory indirectly through attitude changes, the pilot maneuvers the aircraft to project a dotted green line in the heads-up display over a target light shining in the landing area.
"It is almost like a video game," said James "Buddy" Denham, the senior engineer who has been leading the research and development efforts at Naval Air Systems Command. "You're tracking a shipboard stabilized visual target with a flight path reference, and the airplane knows what it needs to do to stay there."
ONR funded the project as part of its focus on sea-based aviation, one of five Navy and Marine Corps research areas designated as a national naval responsibility.
The software has been incorporated into an F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet flight simulator. Researchers plan to conduct a study with U.S. Navy pilots and British Royal Navy pilots who will fly the simulator to obtain data on workload reduction and touchdown performance. Once the results are tabulated, the engineers plan to integrate the refined algorithm onto an actual aircraft for flight tests and demonstrations.
If the tests are successful, the software could be integrated aboard current and future aircraft to change the way carrier-based aviators have landed aboard ships for more than half a century-controlled crash landings. Increasing the precision of landings will boost pilot safety and reduce training requirements necessary to perfect carrier-landing skills. It could lower aircraft life cycle costs by reducing maintenance and avoiding repairs caused by hard landings."
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If anyone interested in the 'Bedford Array' and supporting info it can be posted here (in another separate thread?) or in the dreaded PDF format. You choose. If no interest then no post. I wonder if there is potential for 'retro-fitting' to Hornets?
[Addition] Subsequently I've made this list of links to what is relevant to conventional carrier ops (there is a lot of preceding info about F-35B SRVL ops but not really relevant except to help explain the concept). Anyway:
"...the 'Bedford Array' concept was developed for the RN (and perhaps USMC) use with F-35Bs if / when using the SRVL (Shipboard Rolling Vertical Landing) technique (instead of a 'more usual' vertical landing). A recent USN LSO newsletter gave an overview of the concept also, which is now being developed for current USN aircraft as well as future:
http://www.hrana.org/documents/PaddlesMonthlyJuly2011.pdf (2.2Mb)
&
http://www.hrana.org/documents/PaddlesMonthlyAugust2011.pdf (1.7Mb)
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[Patent application PDF for concept here:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20110121997.pdf]
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Recent news story:
Flight Control Software to Help Pilots Stick Landings Aboard Carrier Decks
(NAVY NEWS SERVICE 20 OCT 11) ... Grace Jean, Office of Naval Research
http://hrana.org/news.asp#FlightControlSoftware
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Trials Ahead for Navy Carrier Landing Software by Armed Forces International's Defence Correspondent 21/10/2011
http://www.armedforces-int.com/news/trials-ahead-for-navy-carrier-landing-software.html
Slightly different explanation of the new way of doing things: (more or less same press release as first one though)
"..."The flight control algorithm has the potential to alter the next 50 years of how pilots land on carrier decks."
The algorithm is designed to work in tandem with a so-called Bedford Array lighting system positioned on the aircraft carrier and a series of symbols presented in the pilot's HUD (Heads-Up Display). It connects the control stick straight to the aircraft's trajectory with the result that, rather than have to make minute shifts, the pilot directs the aircraft so it beams a fragmented green line in the HUD.
"You're tracking a shipboard stabilized visual target with a flight path reference, and the airplane knows what it needs to do to stay there", Naval Air Systems Command representative James Denham stated, in explanation...."