FSDreamTeam forum
General Category => Unofficial F/A-18 Acceleration Pack board => Topic started by: micro on May 10, 2011, 09:10:50 am
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A barricade would be very cool in FSX, heck just having real wires to catch would be cool! ;D
Thanks for sharing the video, really great find. The first pass was very interesting to watch and the PIO leading to a wave off, or what looked like PIO when the engine started having problems. Great job by the LSOs and pilot!
-Capt
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I don't have audio for video at moment so I don't know about PIO. However it is good to see (I guess from the clue in text for video: "Captain Slater's fuel state at time of landing was excessively low.") that the pilot does a quick circuit back to a successful barricade engagement. I count about ten seconds from wings level in a shortened groove, I guess the pilot was flying the ball as soon as possible during the turn. Looked like aircraft is in a continuous turn from waveoff to barricade final. Great stuff. NATOPS would have something to say about barricade engagements, as well as the LSO NATOPS etc.
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JJ...
Good to hear from ya. Bad news is, unless you have GOBS of time and a heavy imagination, my answer would be no. It would be seriously cool to get a barricade, but I wouldnt even know where to start or how a gauge could be made to get a barricade. And in the end you'd only have a gauge effect, similar to FSX carrier wires (trap zones, cable force equivalents, whatnot), and not a realistic barricade that used some type of visible "virtual physical wires" to catch you.
Later
Sludge
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Spaz, the pilot calls 300 pounds of fuel remaining in the audio track during the circuit back to land (2nd pass), so very low fuel state indeed :o
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Many thanks for posting, what a video, takes the hair of the bear to get that barrier. Downloading and converting so I can see it anytime.
That YouTube page has some other vids.
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capt, thanks. WOW that is a 'fumes' amount of fuel for sure.
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Heard the audio for the first part just now where it seems the pilot has an engine 'fluctuation' problem also? Is that impression of others? Amazing to hear the LSO say "Cut, Cut, Cut" for the pilot to bring the engine to idle just before touchdown. He wasn't going anywhere anyway. ;D Nice one.
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Spaz,
This is what I've found about standard LSO calls in the LSO NATOPS (NAVAIR 00-80T-104):
“Cut.” - Aircraft is in a position to land. - For barricade recovery, retard throttle(s) to idle and secure engine(s) once safely on deck.
Let's hear once again.. ;) The attached ZIP has two short cuts of the audio. I'm not sure the pilot has any fluctuations, he says 'fluctuations none'... Also, he has plenty of fuel, as his another responce is 'thirty hundred pounds'
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fsxnp, perhaps it is a matter of hearing accents. however the pilot says '3 hundred pounds' - 'three hundred' is what I hear. [I don't believe a pilot would say '30 hundred'.] The other zip says 'fluctuating on the bad engine' where the 'bad' word is indistinct. Listening to/hearing military radios is usually difficult due quality of transmission/reception. Probably somewhere on the web there will be a story/report about this incident. Should be easy to find if it is available given the date stamp on video - 24 Oct 1997.
I went back to listen again to the 'fluctuation' and I guess the pilot is say 'fluctuation on the... NOT engine'. I guess he had too much to worry about to say 'glideslope' to say 'fluctuation on the glideslope' perhaps. Still reckon he says 'three hundred'. ;D
About the 'CUT' call. I'm not worried about whatever number of times - just to hear it is amazing for a jet aircraft - that is all, because it is so unusual.
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The "cut, cut, cut" call is standard for LSO's during a barricade arrestment on US ships. Mainly because it is so ingrained in pilots to go to mil during the trap, and as you say spaz, he’s not going anywhere.
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I betcha this one can be replicated: ;D ::)
http://www.military.com/video/aircraft/jet-fighters/f-18-catch-and-bouncy-ride/644575058001/
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Here is what NeptunusLex thinks about the Hornet InFlightEngagement:
PLAT LSO says, “C: (LULX-IM) _NEPSAR_ _TT1_”
Lex (former LSO): "Cut Pass – A little lined-up left start-to-in-the-middle, not enough power settle at the ramp (underlined), taxi, taxi one wire (underlined)"
http://www.neptunuslex.com/2011/05/16/rhino-cut-to-an-ife/comment-page-1/#comment-721585
Rhino Cut to an IFE By lex, on May 16th, 2011
"A late wave-off causes a Super Hornet to engage the one wire while coming up to fully power"
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Guys,
Mr.Slater (the pilot) kindly answered my questions about that barricade arrestment.
First, his right engine rpm's started winding down during the first pass, so what we heard was 'fluctuations on [...] right engine'.
And he had 300 pounds indicated in tank 3 and all others showed 0... ::)
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Mr. Slater was cool as a jewel 8) rolling into the groove with only 3 hundred pounds for the first ever F/A-18C barricade trap with serious engine and gear problems. I wonder how he ended up so low on gas, may be waiting for all other airplanes to trap, and then the barricade to be set up? Or mabye a fuel leak or inability to transfer? They wouldn't have run him low on fuel on purpose for the barricade landing would they?
Hope the LSOs gave him and _OK_ Barricade.
-Capt
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fsxnp, Good one. Thanks for contacting Mr. Slater (how did you do that?). Good to know more about it because the barricade is even more unusual today according to a recent LSO Newsletter (I'll post article here soon).
Agree about all the 'well done' comments. Certainly with only 300 pounds of fuel he had to get around quickly and get a result - which he did very well as we can see. His last QUICK circuit is very similar to how we did ordinary circuits (but of course in a different aircraft etc.). AND we did them with a lot more fuel - even in an A4G where the minimum landing fuel (at arrest or full stop runway landing) was 500lbs!
However if in an emergency afloat we could call the ball with 500lbs but then if waved off probably consider NOT approaching again due to fuel gauge limitations, especially in the Opt AoA attitude which meant that the guage was unreliable below 250lbs if I remember correctly. NATOPS will have the figure.
I guess a Hornet Fuel Gauge is accurate at low numbers. :o ;D
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Story about an 'almost' barricade recovery, how seldom used with a request to 'not have the barricade'.... is in the March 2011 LSO Newsletter here:
http://www.hrana.org/documents/PaddlesMonthlyMarch2011.pdf
Complete text here: (looks like the 'tt's 't's 'ti's 'tti's 'ft's etc. did not copy across - I'll try to put them back)
“CVW-2’s Near-Barricade
Our special thanks to CVW-2 Staff LSO LCDR “Jitters” Kircher for putting together the following submission for this month’s edition of Paddles Monthly.
As time goes on and the money gets tighter, those who control the purse strings are understandably looking for savings. Recently, the LSO School Staff was approached about the possibility of eliminating the requirement for the barricade on forthcoming CVNs, with the possibility of the capability disappearing entirely. The primary driver behind the push to eliminate the barricade stems from the fact that one has not even been attempted since 1998. However, as CVW-2’s LSO Cadre found out, the next actual barricade situation may be lurking right around the corner…….
It was a standard OEF night recovery, the second of the evening with two more to go. Midway through, I hear a Rhino ask for a rep. Being curious and nosey, I turn up the rep freq. Actually, having the rep freq up at all times, as long as you can stand it, is a great idea. You’d be surprised at what DOESN’T make it to you on the platform sometimes. The conversation about the all-too familiar nose-wheel unsafe indication is already in progress. The aircraft joins up with the tanker and gets a visual inspection but - as per NATOPS - there is no way to be certain of the down and locked status of the nose gear by visual inspection alone. With an unsafe nose-wheel, the arrested landing option is out. You are left with only two choices: divert or barricade.
After deliberation down below, the decision was made to tank the jet to an above-dirty-bingo fuel state and send him on his way to the beach to attempt a field landing. The two aircraft departed for the divert with the intention of tanking the damaged bird en route, and then the tanker recovering when they were finished. I kept the rep frequency up while the recovery continued. I started to hear a significant amount of chatter in my ear from the diverting aircraft. I heard things like: “no flow, back out” followed by “I’ll reset” and, ultimately, “tanker sour.” Additionally, it was getting tougher to hear the transmissions because they were getting out of radio range. Of note, there were no other tankers to be launched in a timely manner, it was this one or nothing.
At the limit of radio range - with the jet unable to get any gas from the tanker - the decision
was made to bring them back to the ship and rig the barricade. The phone rang on
the platform, it was CAG telling me we were rigging the barricade. By the time I could get
the words, “What the !@#?” out of my mouth, the boss came over the 5MC and said,
“Now rig the barricade.” I told the team-lead to get out the ARBs while I finish up my conversation with CAG. By the time I turned around to look at the book, all 4 wires were
stripped and the barricade was on its way out of the hole. All of that barricade rigging
practice had paid off. It was quite impressive.
I estimated the gross weight of the jet based on the last fuel state that I’d heard, but with
my heart beating out of my chest, I wanted to be backed up. I asked the pilot his estimated
gross weight at landing and was immediately told to standby by the CATCC rep. I told
the rep he would standby and re-asked my question. We agreed on his estimate, calculated
an approach speed and ran it by the boss, who concurred. The big take away from this
is the rep may not let you get a word in unless you tell him to stop yapping for a second
and ask what you need to. While I’m sure whatever they were talking about was important,
what we need down on the platform is equally important. That gets forgotten during a lot of emergencies.
On the trip back to the ship, they were still trying to get the tanker to give gas, and at
some point the ARS pod conceded and started transferring. The barricade rigging ceased
and we were able to go down below where I let my heart attack subside before the next
recovery.”
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More details from Mr. Slater:
My low fuel state was a result of several things. 1. Dumped fuel prior to discovering my problem in order to reduce total a/c wt. I had bombs/rockets so as ordinance goes up, fuel must go down to arrive at max gross landing weight. 2. Wingman helping me had to trap prior to stripping all wires and rigging barricade 3. Barricade was tangled, so it took some time to get it ready. Meanwhile, I'm running out of fuel.
And of course, he was given an OK grade 8)
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Thanks fsxnp, Mr. Slater had a good/bad day. ;D
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Thanks Serge for the follow up. Thought it was a combination of events which lead to the extremely low fuel state, sounds like it was.
Hoping to score an OK3 using your vLSO mission in the future 8)
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An A4G Maintainer has sent me this link: In first minutes you will see a USN A-4 take the barricade
Aircraft Catapult and Arresting Gear - Part 1
"Uploaded by PeriscopeFilm on Nov 6, 2009
Landing aboard an aircraft carrier is a task fraught with danger under normal conditions. When an aircraft has a malfunction or becomes disabled, it can be especially dangerous. The Mark-V barricade was developed to arrest disabled aircraft which, for whatever reason, may not be able to land by conventional "hook on a cable" means. Shown in this film are the procedures used to deploy the barricade, with commentary about how teamwork and attention to detail makes all the difference."
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Barricade being rigged photo:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Carrier_arrestor.jpg
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Hey :)
Is it at all possible to get a repaint of this Aircraft For the Sludge F/A-18D ?????
Thanks
Brad "Scuddy" Leyland
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JJ...
Good to hear from ya. Bad news is, unless you have GOBS of time and a heavy imagination, my answer would be no. It would be seriously cool to get a barricade, but I wouldnt even know where to start or how a gauge could be made to get a barricade. And in the end you'd only have a gauge effect, similar to FSX carrier wires (trap zones, cable force equivalents, whatnot), and not a realistic barricade that used some type of visible "virtual physical wires" to catch you.
Later
Sludge
Based on what I've seen FSX do in its missions my answer is yes this is possible it requires 2 people that I can think of to implement it.
1/ is Javier the maker of the Carrier to add the barricade to the deck, animations and possibly even the ground crew animation as they put it up.
The 2nd person needed is the mission maker to add this to the script so the carrier needs an ATC with declaring an emergency function added to the mission script. Then upon declaring the requirement the carrier could errect the barricade and there you have it. Realistic landing distance could also be added. (I bet Orion could do that)
For MP you would also want a realsitic situation which creates the necessity to declare the emergency that could also be added to mission script as a failure or as combat damage from SAMs/AAA.