FSDreamTeam forum
General Category => Unofficial F/A-18 Acceleration Pack board => Topic started by: fael097 on January 25, 2008, 09:40:26 pm
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i made this video to prove that the brakes have to be fixed. im also sending it to microsoft, just posted here to see what other people have to say about it, so if you disagree and don't think they're bugged, post here and i'll prove that you're wrong :D
ps.: i put the other airplanes to prove that its not a problem with my rudder control.
ps2.: does anybody knows the microsoft website to report bugs?
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Well, this user made a video making a successful landing:
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the dude in the video was tapping his break to keep control. I believe there is a problem with the brakes as I see people spin out all the time. That may be because of over aggressively braking or a configuration problem. In may case, I am having a hard time configuring the x52 pro flight controller and pro pedals to work together consistently. When I use my pedal brakes the plane brakes however when I release, they stay engaged. Also, on the initial application of braking with the pedals, (hitting just the left or the right) it goes in the opposite direction it should...really weird. But after I do that once, then both brakes will correct the plan in the right direction, ie right brake turns plan right.
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Thats because FS guys are doing it all wrong ;), heres how its done 1st thing do not use the brake initially because IRL if you if you try to use the brake like you guys are doing you will:
1/ over heat the brakes and lose brakes altogether
2/ run off the end of the runway
3/ piss off your crew chief.
So on touch down 1st keep the nose up by pulling gently back on the stick, open the airbrakes and bleed the speed off. When the nose comes down then apply brakes and slow down and stop. I notice fael that you are using parking brakes as well another bad idea. You have to use the toe brakes as the park brake in some aircraft may not allow the ABS or anti skid system to kick in. BTW in a car if you lock up your wheels you can also spin out the way you did with the Hornet in that video. Park brakes are for parking toe brakes/airbrakes and aerobraking is for stopping.
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Well, this user made a video making a successful landing:
Thats how its supposed to be done.
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Thats because FS guys are doing it all wrong ;), heres how its done 1st thing do not use the brake initially because IRL if you if you try to use the brake like you guys are doing you will:
1/ over heat the brakes and lose brakes altogether
2/ run off the end of the runway
3/ piss off your crew chief.
So on touch down 1st keep the nose up by pulling gently back on the stick, open the airbrakes and bleed the speed off. When the nose comes down then apply brakes and slow down and stop. I notice fael that you are using parking brakes as well another bad idea. You have to use the toe brakes as the park brake in some aircraft may not allow the ABS or anti skid system to kick in. BTW in a car if you lock up your wheels you can also spin out the way you did with the Hornet in that video. Park brakes are for parking toe brakes/airbrakes and aerobraking is for stopping.
You got it. I knew a guy who's callsign was "Torch" because he stomped on the brakes a little too hard one time and the brakes caught on fire. There's no hurry to stop when you've got 10,000ft in front of you.
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Is the Anti-Skid function is being set prior to landing?
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fael,
I don't have these problems when I do shore based landings. As soon as the main gear touch down, I chop the throttle to idle, the nose gear will touch down in less than a second, and when I am in a three point attitude, I stand on the brakes (yea, I know, wrong technique, but it's a simulation). I suggest you check your aircraft.cfg file. In the [contacts] section, make sure the brakes are mapped to the left and right landing gear. The nose gear mapping should be zero. I also have the following parameters defined in the [brakes] section:
toe_brakes_scale = 0.9
differential_braking_scale = 1
hydraulic_system_scalar = 1
auto_brakes = 0
Hope this helps.
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Is the Anti-Skid function is being set prior to landing?
Its automatic and should already be set I don't think you should have to mess with it unless you have a problem with hydralic pressure or something.
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i'll say that again.
im not stupid, its obvious that im not doing what is supposed to be done, its obvious that you dont just pull the parking brakes to slow down, im doing that for testing sake.
i did that with all the airplanes in this game, and im showing 4 of them on this video, theres not a single one reacting something like the f-18.
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Well, this user made a video making a successful landing:
roflmao
did you really watch the video?
2:06 he slides to his right(hes sliding, not purpose turning cuz the airplane landing gear is static), and then he tried to correct turning the rudder to the left.
thats what happens when you tap the brake. you can make it look smooth but you'll eventually lose control. you just proved that it's not working as it should, will you please assume that?
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After reading through this topic I found this video on youtube. Appears to be a textbook hornet landing.
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Well, this user made a video making a successful landing:
roflmao
did you really watch the video?
2:06 he slides to his right(hes sliding, not purpose turning cuz the airplane landing gear is static), and then he tried to correct turning the rudder to the left.
thats what happens when you tap the brake. you can make it look smooth but you'll eventually lose control. you just proved that it's not working as it should, will you please assume that?
He did not slide to the right the right turn is delberate, in order to turn aircraft around on runways the pilot turns to the opposite direction to allow a tighter turn IRL(it even says this in the FSX tutorial for PPL) you need this for the smaller runways. The good thing about this though is now we can lock one wheel using the differential brakes which allows tight turns that are required on the carrier to move up to the cat. BTW the video the aircrafts full run upto taxi speed was perfectly straight. Also remember you are not yet carrying external stores which makes landings much longer.
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This problem can be fixed by modifying air-file. You can use AirEd (freeware program) to open FA-18.air -file, under "1101 Primary Aerodynamics" find value "*Cn_r Yaw Moment - Yaw Rate (Damping)=-2000", change that value to -12000
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This problem can be fixed by modifying air-file. You can use AirEd (freeware program) to open FA-18.air -file, under "1101 Primary Aerodynamics" find value "*Cn_r Yaw Moment - Yaw Rate (Damping)=-2000", change that value to -12000
i've been looking for some entry in the .air file to fix this problem before, but i couldnt find it.
i tried to modify the yaw rate damping to -12000 as you said, but it didnt fix 90% of the problem and it changed the aircraft behaviour in the air
and also, there are aircrafts with the same yaw rate working perfectly, so it has to be another entry, but im sure it can be fixed by just changing something like you suggested
thanks for the help
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These problems are related to the Realism Settings you run with.
1) If you are playing at Low Realism Settings you will get this 360 degree spinning behaviour after a few seconds when you apply full brakes.
2) If you are playing at High Realism Settings your plane will not exhibit this spinning problem. At worst she'll be a little twitchy (and if you're cack-handed with it, she'll tip - just like in the real world I guess). ;)
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I was reading both the threads on the Landing gear and breaking problems. First of all theres nothing wrong with the aircraft you just have to know how to stop it properly. So say you come in at 130 knots... just land turn on the airbrakes/spoilers, THEN make sure you push forward on the joystick and start tapping on the brakes you need the downforce here. I wait for 60-80knots before applying them harder. In fact on airliners they don't apply the brakes untill they are at 80 knots anyways. Just remember both the engines and brakes are overpowered for a reason, just like you don't use full thrust you shouldn't be using full brakes. With respect to the landing gear issue if you note the picture in the thread the Joystick is actually pushed forward in that image thats why the plane seems lower to the ground, comparing it with a Parked aircraft is just silly....
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I'm guessing most of you who are having this ground loop problem have never taken flight lessons before, which is fine (and I recommend you get out there and do it it's a blast:P), but let me just throw my two cents in:
1) There is no rule at any airport, anywhere, that you have to exit the first taxiway. There isn't any reason to be braking that early when you have plenty of runway in front of you.
2) The F18 is a much smaller aircraft than say, a 747. It is light enough that it will naturally slow down fairly quickly with aerodynamic braking/air brakes. Big jets need all that sweet reverse thrust/extra braking because it's like trying to stop a freight train.
3) Your landings should be dead centerline, straight down the runway, every time. That eliminates problems. If you happen to be off a little bit, don't be in a rush to get back to the centerline. Using rudder at 80 knots is like jerking your steering wheel on the highway. Also, plane going in one direction + wheels facing a different direction = bad juju/repair bill when you touchdown. Keep it facing down the runway or you'll run into problems. A good way to make better landings is to practice slips. When I come in for a landing and I'm off center, my CFI won't let me touch down until I've slipped into the correct spot. Handy for crosswind landings as well.
4) If you ever land and immediately hit the brakes, or god forbid hit the parking brake (shudder), prepare to get punched in the face by your flight instructor. He's going to be upset that you just ruined his brakes, and you might be about to kill him in a bad ground loop. The correct landing procedure is to come in, flare, and when your wheels touch HOLD THE NOSE UP. Then you can gently ease it down (don't try to hold it up forever, eventually you'll run out of speed and you may drop down on the nose wheel hard.) By this point you should be able to start gentle braking without any problems.
Now I know Cherokee Warriors land waaayyy slower than an F18, but when I land at KCLL IRL I'm able to not do any braking at all until I'm actually taking the first exit ramp. If you're landing your F18 at the correct speed in the correct configuration, you really shouldn't have to do much braking until you're ready to exit either. I know much of this problem has been attributed to the realism settings, but if you set yourself up for a proper landing and pull it off correctly you shouldn't have any problems :) Cheers
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and don't push the brakes all the way down. That's another thing instructors don't like at all. Though that's easier in real life where you can feel all everything, and furthermore, you need joystick axis assigned to brakes.
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That brake fix worked perfectly. contacts was set at 2 for right. 1 is for Left. I set it at zero which seems to set it for both. Thanks much!
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I downloaded the brake fix and it still spun out of control when i touched down. But the way to do it is to use the Angle of Attack indicator on the side of the HUD. If you come in at the right speed then it won't spin out of control. Just think you are doing a carrier landing, and you'll be fine.
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I like how people post things on forums. They will post demonstrating something. For instance. Posting videos saying that when you apply breaks your plane spins out. Then in the video it shows you applying the parking break. You posted asking for help and people respond with "your applying the parking breaks thats why its spinning out" then the reply to that is something along the lines of saying" I did that to show how other planes dont do it" Lol
Learn to land at the correct speed and use your breaks under 70-80 knots and use the entire runway. Apply the breaks gently. Asking for fixes to things that arent broken is kind of dumbing down sim flying. Just saying
Please note im not mocking you or making fun of you. Just pointing out how pleanty of people post videos contridicting themselves and coming off as rude.
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I like how people post things on forums. They will post demonstrating something. For instance. Posting videos saying that when you apply breaks your plane spins out. Then in the video it shows you applying the parking break. You posted asking for help and people respond with "your applying the parking breaks thats why its spinning out" then the reply to that is something along the lines of saying" I did that to show how other planes dont do it" Lol
Learn to land at the correct speed and use your breaks under 70-80 knots and use the entire runway. Apply the breaks gently. Asking for fixes to things that arent broken is kind of dumbing down sim flying. Just saying
I agree, its like going into an airliner and saying GIVE ME A HUD!
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I agree, its like going into an airliner and saying GIVE ME A HUD!
We acutally offer the HUD as an option on the 737NG and it will be standard on our new 787. But back on topic, I set my general setting all the way to the right and I don't get any spins anymore.