FSDreamTeam forum
General Category => Unofficial F/A-18 Acceleration Pack board => Topic started by: Razgriz on June 30, 2010, 10:58:28 pm
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There are the boxes during missions, the "gate" boxes. Orion, you should place a box all the way around the carrier, attached to the carrier, for trainer missions.
With perfect turns, decent. lineup, etc.
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Good idea! Incidentally, I've started a similar mission (an FCLP training mission with these gates, LSO voice comments and all the bells and whistles) but had to put it on the shelf till the IFLOLS gauge is ready.
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So basically a tutorial mission with gates at key points in the pattern to help people learn carrier landings?
If I've got that right, sounds good; I'll look into it ;).
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Yes, please. This is something thatwould be a great asset in helping to complete a "Lap around the boat".
Tregarth
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This would even help me or Sludge get into the groove, pun intended. :P
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Ok guys, here we go...
...and this is WIP. Lot of work to do ;)
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Wow, that looks great! Just how I planned it. I'm open to beta-testing if you want :P ;D
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fsxnp, having the turn boxes slanted is a good differentiation.
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This is very impressive, well done.
4 questions, please
1. Will the hoops be "portable" i.e. are they locked to one airfield or could they be used on any airfield with an ILS?
2. If so, will you please supply installation instructions?
3. Will they be restricted to the F-18 or would they work for the T-45?
4. I notice you have an FLOLS, but the airfield is not NOLF Choctaw; how did you put the lights on a different airfield, please?
Good job.
Thank you,
Tregarth
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Thanks! Well, this is my first FSX mission ever and there's still lots to learn and practice...
Down to your questions.
1, 2 - No. I don't know how to make the pattern 'portable'. BTW, this mission has nothing to do with an ILS.
3. Basically, one can use ANY aircraft to fly the mission. But the Goshawk flies more narrow pattern, AFAIK..
4. Once you have installed NOLF Choctaw scenery, you will be able to use an FLOLS in your missions (via FSX OPT or Object Placement Tool).
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Dear FSXNP,
Thanks for the reply, can you please tell me what your answer in point 4 means i.e (via FSX OPT or Object Placement Tool)?
I have never heard of the Object Placement Tool, where does it live and how do I use it?
Please only reply when you have time, do not waste time on this request until you have sorted out all the other good things you are doing.
Thanks for your patience,
Tregarth
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This http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=Object_Placement_Tool (http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=Object_Placement_Tool) is a good point to start ;)
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I have looked at the information, found the SDK and installed it. I know my limitations and will give this one a miss.
I appreciate your help,
Tregarth
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Looks good!
I guess I'll pass on this one then - no need to make an extra mission when someone else has already done an excellent job ;).
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Dear FSXNavyPilot,
Can you please tell us how the mission trainer is progressing?
Thank you,
Tregarth
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This will be a series of three missions. First part - daytime FCLP at NAF El Centro - is 90% ready. The other two - more advanced day and night FCLPs at NOLF Coupeville - are due to start next week. :)
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Maybe I'll still do one: around the carrier.
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Serge...
Are you gonna put a tutorial up on here for your trainer missions? What aircraft its meant for, airspeeds, altitudes... stuff like that.
Later
Sludge
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Sludge,
as in any stock mission there will be a briefing with charts/maps etc. However, it is supposed that the pilot knows what FCLP does mean and knows basic numbers and figures... These missions are generally for the Sludge Hornet, but I think that the Acceleration Hornet, or Dino's Goshawk, or any other navy jet will perform very well. :)
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Serge...
I would definately put that FCLP chart with your README or however you plan to install it. That would make it easy for even the most casual FSX pilot. And you know we have plenty of those out in the sim world.
Later
Sludge
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F/A-18A/B/C/D Hornet NATOPS Field Landing Circuit Diagram (numbers added for local conditions).
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Spaz...
Thanks for that addition. I think that along with the pure overhead depiction would help in this mission.
Later
Sludge
EDIT: Just found the picture I was talking about, from one of our old forum threads.
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..and mine (from a briefing) is this
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Sludge, without having the context to the overhead graphic, it looks to me to be suitable for the Goshawk T-45C with the abeam position being less wide than a Hornet 1.25 to 1.5 recommendation for carrier. I would guess that Hornet FCLP 'wide abeam' would be similar to Hornet Carrier Pattern?
Now there is a Hornet (Super?) FCLP diagram from an environmental report about such matters. I'll look for a better example in meantime here is the rough one.
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Good info about Air Traffic Control and LSO responsibilities for FCLP in this 6Mb PDF: (it is easy to join ScribD for download)
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7843303/US-Navy-Course-NAVEDTRA-14342-Air-Traffic-Controller
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Details about NOLF/FCLP runway lighting page 216 in this 3.6Mb PDF:
http://airfieldrunwaylighting.yolasite.com/resources/UFC%203-535-02%2010-XX-01.pdf
Photo of NAS Whidbey Island shows FCLP 'carrier deck' on left side of main runway. When regular runway used one can see the same touchdown zone in both cases (IFLOLS used for all landings).
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Good graphics with generic FCLP/NOLF info in this 3Mb PDF:
http://www.no2olf.110mb.com/DOC_PDF/OLF_Graphic.pdf
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Better (Super?) Hornet FCLP diagram from 0.3Mb PDF: http://www.co.currituck.nc.us/pdf/olf-maps/olf-one.pdf
FSXNP has helped find much of this info by the way. Thanks! We don't have this stuff in Oz no more.... >:(
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Well, couple of WIP screenies... Added carrier box and 'piano keys' markings (stolen from Whidbey Island). And I think I'm gonna repaint whole RWY26... ;D
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Serge...
Nothing but hat's off to you for your work with this, I really like your overhead depiction of NAS El Centro's FLCP pattern. Now will it work with the widely downloaded scenery add-on for KNJK? I mean, thats what I would use along with the rectangles, in addition to the outside visual cues on hitting certain points.
I would actually advise that to anyone who ends up using this mission. Use the rectangles, get familiar with what the visual cues are, then once proficient, turn off the rectangles and fly the pattern and see how well you do. A "training wheels" approach to learning the FCLP and later the actual carrier pattern.
Again, thanks for your work, Serge! You have been one of the single greatest contributors to FSX Nav Av this year, IMO!
Later
Sludge
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fsxnp, looking good. As seen in the NAS Whidbey Island 'carrier deck' photo on their runway above on previous page now (also now below), any chance please to have plenty of tyre marks in both touchdown zones - the proper runway and the FCLP carrier deck (both skid marks adjacent because the same mirror used - but on a different centreline)? Thanks. If not possible then no big deal.
[EDIT} Forgot that NAF El Centro would be the only mission with dual purpose runway, whilst NOLF Coupeville will have only skidmarks on the 'carrier deck' box because it is a 'no full stop landing' airfield. Whatever. ::) There is an OLF Coupeville video on Youtube: You will see the LSO shack & stuff (from 1m 15sec).
(http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3211.0;attach=7486;image) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4626964455504607327
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A "training wheels" approach to learning the FCLP and later the actual carrier pattern.
Thats what I was thinking to get new guys into it, you can't go wrong unless you just can't fly.
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Dear FSXNP,
I have had a look at NAF El Centro (KNJK) and see it does not have an ILS, only a VOR DME. Will your trainer mission have one so the HUD will work? Or am I missing something?
Thank you.
Tregarth
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Tregarth,
You're right, the default KNJK scenery doesn't have an ILS. But the FSX Blue Angels version does. My mission should work well with both these sceneries but I'm not sure that both the FLOLS and ILS glidepaths match... I'll try and see, and then decide ;)
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Thanks for this, I didn't know there was another version of KNJK, I will have a look for it.
Thank you for the good work that you do.
Tregarth
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FSX Blue Angels NAF El Centro Scenery on this page:
http://fsxblueangels.com/downloads.html "NAF EL CENTRO ADD-ON SCENERY"
specifically:
http://fsxblueangels.com/downloadsNAFElCentro.html [screenshots on this page]
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Tregarth,
I've conducted a quick test and yes, as you can see, the FLOLS and ILS glidepaths do [almost] match ;D So far so good...
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Just might mention (because I have a habit of switching everything NOT to do with the aircraft down to zero - slider to left) that to see the IFLOLS one must have the setting in FSX as shown in the .GIF graphic - particularly for 'Scenery Objects' on the right hand column. The other left hand settings are not important (I think?).
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Thank you both for the info, I will download the Blue Angels's scenery.
The alignment looks very good, well done.
Tregarth
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Why FCLP (or MADDLS Mirror Assisted Dummy Deck Landings) are important. An A4G 'pretends' to approach HMAS Melbourne (in 1970s) - it is not possible to land when an aircraft is on the catapult (or over the foul line).
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A WORD OF WARNING FOR WIN 7 USERS.
I have just downloaded and installed Blue Angels' El Centro scenery and it looks really good.
BUT, please read my previous post
One word of warning: If you are using Win 7 scenery installation is NOT easy. I suggest you look at Mutley's Hangar, topic
http://forum.mutleyshangar.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=4548
This refers to an marvellous Australian web site which is a tutorial on adding FSX scenery in Win 7.
Installing FSX Scenery using Win 7
http://aussiex.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=4426
I have used it and it worked perfectly first time (which, for me is unusual). The only addition I would make to this helpful tutorial is that you
1. Unzip the required files into a folder on the desktop.
2. Follow the tutorial but after step 3 you copy and paste the required folder from your desktop folder into the Select Scenery Directory / Addon Scenery window
3. Follow step 4.
If you don't you will likely screw up your FSX Scenery folder, trust me, I know.
I suspect the Blue Angels ReadMe was written for XP.
Tregarth
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Dear FSXNP,
Not heard from you for a while, are you OK? Have you had time to finish off your training missions? The Blue Angels El Centro runway runway looks remarkably clean, do you have any plans to make it look more used?
Thank you,
Best regards,
Tregarth.
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Tregarth,
Thanks, am ok ;D The work is still in progress, here's a quick screenshot.
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Thanks for the reply. The important thing is to know you are OK. The rest can follow, (but it is eagerly awaited).
Best regards,
Tregarth
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This is my FCLP at El Centro, Part 2 mission - dusk practice w/o hoops (for more advanced users) 8)
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...This is my FCLP at El Centro, Part 2 mission - dusk practice w/o hoops (for more advanced users) 8)
Looking Real Good; Keep practising! ;)
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Dear FSX NP,
Very impressive, it is good to hear from you again; when can we have a go? I notice you have a more "used" runway landing area and an IFLOLS, will these be included in your new download?
Thank you,
Tregarth
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fsxnp, looking excellent. Nice video. Real shame that the AoA indexer cannot be working properly with hook up. I personally have no shame to have the hook down during FCLP. ::) For me to have that indexer blinking on and off so slowly makes it unusable.
Q: Is there a way to make the AoA Indexer flash on and off with a shorter OFF interval? Desperate of FSX.
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fsxnp, looking excellent. Nice video. Real shame that the AoA indexer cannot be working properly with hook up. I personally have no shame to have the hook down during FCLP. ::) For me to have that indexer blinking on and off so slowly makes it unusable.
Q: Is there a way to make the AoA Indexer flash on and off with a shorter OFF interval? Desperate of FSX.
Your AoA shouldn't be changing so much that it is a problem. Either way, use the AoA bracket if you don't want to use your indexer.
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Razgriz, that is what I'm saying. The flashing AoA indexer with hook up - is a problem. ;D
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Spaz...
Unless Im mistaken about how the default works, I think you're SOL on this one. Youre only bet is to land in the 2D HUD, that has Serge's Indexer "Hook ByPass" logic enabled. Its part of the Sludge v1.1, so if you D/L'd and installed it and selected Panel_2D_Indexer as your baseline Panel, then use that to land in.
I mean, thats how I do it. I know its not the most, absolutely "realistic", but then again, neither is the field of view or virtual eyepoint for the daggone VC either. IRL, the HUD brackets arent that big for comparative field of view, nor is the Indexer physical box. I mean, thats why I cant land in the VC, the HUD physical brackets and the Indexer get in the way, so when I roll out on Final Bearing, I switch to 2D. Only way to land, my friend. Probly not the answer you're looking for, but thats the only thing I can tell ya.
Later
Sludge
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Sludge, Thanks. Never thought of that. I mess about a lot (sometimes flying without any gauges whatsoever - which is weird - trying to fly 'with visual reference to horizon only'). ;D I'll have to try your solution. Sounds like a good solution for FCLP whilst switching to the IFLOLS for carrier landings (if required). For sure having the HUD/Indexer hardware getting in the way 'in close' is a pain also so the 2D Indexer is good there as well.
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Spaz...
No problem. If you need the 2D Indexer moved, just tell me where (ie, 1/4 inch lower or left), and Ill send you a fixed panel.cfg with the requested settings. Or, if you dont mind doing it yourself, when you setup the initial flight... go to 2D, then you can click/drag it to where ever you want it, manually. Then return to VC for the majority of your flight til you get onto final, then when you go 2D HUD, the Indexer will be where you put it.
And yes, that can work out well, if you prefer the IFLOLS gauge. I cant use it, but Im sure some others can. Thats why I put the IFLOLS in the default middle position, for everyone to start using it there. However, if you want it on the left, middle, upper/left or whatever other place... let me know, and Ill send you a panel.cfg for that as well. Its not hard to do, but its easier to just do it and send you the new file... as everyone knows, I have a tough time explaining things clearly to people.
Take Care and talk to ya
Later
Sludge
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Sludge, thanks for the offer. I think you have explained in your original download post how to change the position, which worked OK when that was done some time back (does your 'readme.txt' explain this?). I would fly in 2D and just move it around manually probably anyway. Have been testing the fsxnp FCLP package BTW - it will be great - fun.
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Bored of FSX default splashscreen? ;) Here's my naval replacement. Unpack and drop included dlgsplash.bmp file into C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Uires\ folder, replacing the default dlgsplash.bmp (or you can save it somewhere else)
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Serge...
Really cool looking replacement. I have a replacement pic that shows a Delta Hornet from VMFA(AW)-533, but I think your's looks cooler. Ill have to set that up when I get home.
Thanks for the pic.
Later
Sludge
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Ok, guys...
Here's my FCLP mission pack ready to fly - http://www.filefront.com/17215133/KNJK_FCLP.zip (http://www.filefront.com/17215133/KNJK_FCLP.zip).
Any suggestions are welcome. Have fun! ;D
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Dear FSX NP,
Firstly, thank you very much for a superb addition. Well done.
A couple of questions, please
1. I have never flown a mission before, so if I want to fly a different aircraft in the circuit, is possible? If so, how?
2. I have followed your instructions and added your Hornet to Sludge's aircraft and altered the .cfg file (I am only using the Basic version). The plane loads OK in Missions but the panel is black. Please see the attachment; I have no doubt this is my error but am not sure what to do to rectify it. Can you please tell me where I have gone wrong?
http://s795.photobucket.com/albums/yy235/Goldsworth/?action=view¤t=F-18Blackpanel-1.jpg
Thanks again, you and Sludge do good work.
Tregarth
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Tre...
Im at work, but will try to help. Does the Sludge load in regular Free Flight and other missions? Please include all relevant information, so we can help you out. OS, where the Sludge does/doesn't work, what FSX version, stuff like that.
Later
Sludge
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tregarth, when you go to FLIGHTS > LOAD > My Saved Flights > Military ensure that the box at lower left corner is ticked as shown in the graphic: "Allow In Game Realism Changes" this will allow you to change anything - including aircraft and the wind - if required.
Sorry - don't know about the 'black panel' issue you have shown. Perhaps changing aircraft then changing back to the FCLP Hornet may help?
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Tregarth (and other guys),
That's my fault, I should have checked everything twice before uploading. The black panel issue caused by wrong texture.cfg file. The right one is attached, d/l it and replace the one in Texture.FCLP folder of your SLUDGE Hornet.
Sorry once again :(
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I forgot to mention in readme that there are three new cameras added to the scenery - on glidepath, in LSO shack and at t/down area (usual spotters place). ;D
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Cracked it!
FSX NP's ReadMe instructions are to unzip to C:\.....\MSFSX
If you do this a new folder is created in Sim Objects\Aircraft which is SludgeFA18_FX This contains the texture folder for the aircraft panel and exterior textures. Thus when you start FSX and go to Select Aircraft the "Red Flash" Hornet does not appear. When you go to Missions all you have is a black panel and a sexy black Hornet.
To remedy this go into SludgeFA18_FX folder and copy the folder Texture.FCLP from this folder into the folder SludgeFA18_Basic i.e Sludge's original folder which contains the other Hornet textures i.e. texture.416.FLTS etc.. This adds the "Red Flash" Hornet to the Select Aircraft menu and you are in business.
Sorry if this is a bit long but I hope any other Newby will be able to follow this to install the "Red Flash" and enjoy this fantastic addition to this add-on.
FSX NP and Sludge -Thank you.
(This may not seem like much to most of you but for me this is quite spectacular!)
Tregarth.
Final thought, to be able to see this aircraft in the Select Aircraft Screen tick "Show all variants".
SpazSinbad, thanks for the help with the "Allow in game...." tip.
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I forgot to mention in readme that there are three new cameras added to the scenery - on glidepath, in LSO shack and at t/down area (usual spotters place). ;D
It's a very nice mission...plus I love the plane texture. Well done.
Johan
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Serge,
A multiplayer version of this would be great! All you have to do is add clients, then get the coords for their spawn, etc. Also, if you do that, can you do 4 missions, one dusk, one dawn, one day, and one night? Both of those suggestions would be great and EASILY added.
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A multiplayer version of this would be great! All you have to do is add clients, then get the coords for their spawn, etc. Also, if you do that, can you do 4 missions, one dusk, one dawn, one day, and one night? Both of those suggestions would be great and EASILY added.
Duncan, thank you for the good ideas. I'll try to make an MP version of my missions when carrier box lighting (for night missions) is ready.
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Awesome 8)
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Dear FSX NP,
Thank you very much for a really useful Mission; it is really useful training. I have started with an IFLOLS equipped Cessna and will work up to the F-18 via the T-45.
Would it now be possible to transfer the Mission to a Carrier so we can continue our training and then sign up for Sludge's carrier landing sessions?
Thanks again,
Tregarth
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FSXNavyPilot,
Bravo Zulu on the FCLP mission pack! Yesterday I was finally able to setup my computer after moving to the DC area and tried out your FCLP mission last night for the first time. Really enjoyed the two missions and the LSO shack views, nice work ;D
-Capt
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Ok, guys,
here's a promo of another FCLP mission - evening practice at NOLF Coupeville (KNRA). It will be a pack of four missions, evening and night practice at both ends of runway. Dusk, night, strong wind 25+ knots... It's gonna be a real challenge ;D
Many, many thanks to Spaz for his great help and assistance!
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Brilliant!
Thank you very much for a superb piece of work.
Tregarth
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Hello!
I need some help, missing the Building Marked runway and IFLOLS. after install in Win7 64 bit. I did unzipped to a Temp folder and Copy the files to FSX in Program files (x86)/Microsoft Games/FSX as per instruction. Herb
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Herbie,
Make sure you have added KNJK_FCLP scenery (using Scenery Library). BTW, Windows version has nothing to do with sceneries and missions.
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Dear Friend!
Thanks for your reply. You are wrong on this one. I had 2 Scenery.Cfg files 11kb with the same date and time after install and scenery activation, one was marked Old scenery.cfg--- I found this on the Website: Its a bug with FSX and Win7 - when installing your add-on scenery do the normal routine of finding the scenery then click on the the window in the middle with mouse and it should enter it into the scenery cfg. Just happens to be something with win7 and FSX. Well, that did the trick. All OK now. ;) Back to practice. Herb
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Good finding! Definately it's a FSX <-> Win7 bug ;D
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Dear FSX NP.
I have been away for a while and see you have not made any new posts. Are you still working on your extra missions or are you posting them on a new location?
Thank you,
Tregarth
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Serge...
I flew your missions this weekend and they are very good. Definately make you work to keep within the rectangles and once you clear the final, you get the beauty of flying the Ball down to a skidmarked touchdown point.
My only problem is a tech issue. I checked out both the folders and still cant get the "sounds", so Ill give it another look over to make sure I installed everything correctly.
Later
Sludge
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Guys,
My FCLP missions pack is ready to d/l at avsim.com. Go to category 'Flight Simulator X - Missions' and search for 'FCLP Missions Pack', or use direct link http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=153677&CatID=fsxmsn (http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=153677&CatID=fsxmsn).
Have fun! ;D
I'd like to express many, many thanks to Phil Thompson for the tremendous support he has provided during my work on these missions!
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Razgriz, I'll only make generalised comments with none meant to offend anyone I hope.
Mission 5 is really difficult. My suggestion is to at least do Mission 3 at night time altitude 1,200 feet (1,000 feet AGL) to adjust to the new pattern, even though it is more day time than night time. The pattern is longer to base turn because higher to allow interception of glide slope further away or at least see the carrier deck to do that in good time. If a lower pattern altitude is used then chances of seeing the very small carrier deck are decreased.
Mission 4 is a great mission because of the light effects of dusk (one can see the ground) with the carrier deck lights being visible. Instrument flying is required some of the time but looking abeam downwind to gauge carrier deck and the abeam position. During the turn it is best to be looking into the turn as much as possible and NEVER go below 600 feet AGL or 800 feet above the runway without seeing the carrier deck.
Mission 5 is really difficult. Instrument flying is required with also lookout to carrier deck which can be disorientating so get back onto instruments ASAP. During base turn once again do not go too low without seeing the carrier deck. Attempt to transition to flying visually without reference to instruments once the carrier deck and meatball can be seen. If the meatball is seen at last part of base turn onto finals then fly the meatball and of course line up on the carrier deck. GOOD LUCK. ;D
Just attempting to fly totally on instruments will not have much success. Yes instruments mostly until last half of base turn when one must look into the turn for the carrier deck and meatball to be able to transtion to visual flying 'from the start' when the LSO is saying call the ball. It is good to concentrate ones flying to the basics here. Meatball, lineup and airspeed - this is what night FCLP is all about. One can see why night carrier landings are not done from such a short circuit (pun intended - a short circuit in one's brain!). ;D
Usually night carrier landings are done via a long straight in approach (more or less) with a gradual descent to allow an easy transition where appropriate to visual flying for the last part with minimal turning or fast descents to disorientate the pilot so keep that in mind with night FCLP. One needs to use a combination of instrument and visual flying at night to keep orientation to the pattern, carrier deck and final approach totally visual. For myself I don't look at the TACAN but it may help around the pattern but not on final approach. Practice practice practice. Do more Mission 4 practice before going to Mission 5 for sure IMHO.
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Razgriz, are you saying you are doing an instrument approach? I'm talking about night FCLP - taking off from OLF Coupeville to enter the FCLP circuit left hand at 1,200 feet AMSL (airfield is 200 feet above AMSL). Night FCLP circuit is higher and therefore a 'longer' base turn point to allow pilot to be safe and to pickup the meatball / carrier deck in good time to then transition to a complete visual approach for 'at the start' / call the ball.
One can use an ersatz TACAN approach straight in (old style one started overhead at 20,000 feet to descend outbound on a radial to around 10,000 feet to then turn inbound to level at 1,000 feet AGL at around several miles from the TACAN station to allow time to get visual with runway below cloud base or in this case 'carrier deck' at night.
However the mission is about FCLP with an 'illegal' night takeoff (from a closed runway in reality but this is FSX). Below is my screenshot (with all the BLACK edited out) for start of Mission 5. Shudder! ;D
I might add that the only thing 'unrealistic' about the night FCLP mission is a takeoff (from a closed runway) with only the carrier deck lights visible. An actual night FCLP takeoff from the same FCLP runway would be done with the runway lights switched ON but switched OFF once 'aircrafts' airborne. For example at NAS Nowra, NSW Australia FCLP was done on the main runway there with all the base lights switched off and nearby base housing lights minimal. It was BLACK. Takeoff was via runway lighting then downwind only the carrier deck was visible (portable limpet lights - no abeam light) however circuit height was higher than day FCLP for safety reasons as described above. And it was difficult.
Back to FSX. IF one keeps the centreline (don't touch anything) having the brakes release with engine at full burner with the initial condition (enough fuel to be at max landing weight when downwind) then the FCLP Hornet will take off by the end of the carrier deck (with the strong 25 knot wind down the runway centreline). FsxNP tells me it was not possible to replicate main runway lights switchoff in FSX so this is a compromise for single mission night FCLP from OLF Coupeville.
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I'm not understanding what you are saying in relation to the Missions as described as FCLP. The TACAN or ILS have nothing to do with them whatsoever. You may think so but no. Yes it is difficult. Best to practice daytime from Mission 2/3 then become very proficient with Mission 4 before going to Mission 5. TACAN or ILS not needed - they are irrelevant for FCLP night/day.
BTW today OLF Coupeville is in use via NAS Whidbey Island, WA USA nearby. Whidbey has a TACAN, Coupeville does not today; but back in 2002 Coupeville did have a TACAN. FsxNP provided a TACAN at Coupeville - just because...
[Razgriz appears to have deleted his/the posts about FCLP missions? In any event the comments made are general and I hope helpful. If any questions I'll attempt to answer in detail. Had hoped to make some videos to illustrate but this is proving difficult at moment.]
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I have downloaded the missions; in the night missions I dont get the lights around the carrier landing area. What do I need to set/do to get them?
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I have downloaded the missions; in the night missions I dont get the lights around the carrier landing area. What do I need to set/do to get them?
My same problem.
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Have just installed FSX Accel in Vista 32 bit with SLUDGE 1.1 Hornet then installed Missions ZIP to end up with no carrier deck markings in Mission 1 or 2 nor mirror. Have mirror in Missons 3 to 5 but no carrier deck lights?
Still have a working copy of everything in Win 7 64 bit (but no FRAPS) with FRAPS OK in Vista 32 bits. I'll get there yet. ;D
EDIT} Turns out that one of my FRAPS shortcut keys does not work in Win 7 so with a new shortcut key FRAPS works OK now. DOH. Same shortcut key works in Vista but hey whatever. Have puzzled over why Missions no work in Vista, have scenery sliders all the way to right...
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Guys,
looks like not all scenery files are present in your KNJK_FCLP and/or KNRA_FCLP folder... Have no idea how this could happen. I'd suggest you to compare KNJK_FCLP/scenery folder with that in the ZIP (and the same for the KNRA_FCLP/scenery).
3wire,
can you see any runway markings with skidmarks and LSO and his shack?
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fsxnp, I have looked at both installations. Both appear identical (different file dates) with Win7 64bit working fine from previous zip install (presume same as released version). Released version installed in Vista 32bit as shown only the FLOLS shows up - no carrier deck markings and no lights.
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Guys, this is my fault - I forgot to include some effects. Please unzip the attached file to the main FSX folder.
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Files fixed my Vista FSX Ok. Fanks.
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Cool! My apologies once again...
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The carrier box lights work, sweet. That was what I was posting about the whole time. By the way, if its a night approach, its a straight in 1.2nm approach using ILS. The visibility isn't high enough for even a 0.75nm visual approach using TCN.
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Razgriz, you may complain but you did not leave your original posts which did not say what you say now. At the time my installation was working OK (older effects files already in place).
However you do not seem to understand the point of FCLP. There is a link in the readme file that helps explain: http://www.navy.mil/search/print.asp?story_id=2096&VIRIN=1181&imagetype=1&page=1
If in further doubt about value of night FCLP I could explain further or point you to an (unavailable at moment) 2GB PDF online 'How to carrier land' that is not specific to Hornet but it gets a mention amongst all the other Naval Aviation guff in it at: www.a4ghistory.com
You are free to do all the non-FCLP flying you wish. However the missions and information is specifically about FCLP day/dusk/night with different parameters for day/night with dusk being a transition to night. It is difficult to do at night but if instruments are flown with a bit of visual to gauge abeam position (LSO will call 'abeam' for you) and some judicious instrument flying around base turn from 1,000 feet AGL not below 600 feet until lit [runway] carrier deck sighted, it is doable with sufficient practice in daytime/dusk.
In a nutshell: night FCLP concentrates pilot attention to 'meatball lineup and airspeed' without the potential to 'deck spot'. Most FCLP is done at night before day deck qualification. Then more night FCLP and day deck landings before night deck qualification (only in Hornets not in Goshawks).
Another benefit of night FCLP is that the FLOLS/IFLOLS is easier to see - and in FSX. FCLP should be fun. Practice mission 4 heaps before attempting mission 5 IMHO.
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(http://www.gogaminggiant.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/facepalm.jpg)
You just can't see anything when your that dark at night, you NEED to have ILS, otherwise its unsafe and won't be done.
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Razgriz, that is your opinion with your FSX setup. However others may have different setups where they can see the carrier deck lights. Obviously they are there. If a good night FCLP pattern is flown then the carrier deck lights will be visible in good time halfway around the base turn (but not below 600 feet - probably not below 800 feet to give more chance of spotting the deck lights).
Probably you are not knowing what to expect. Do plenty of dusk mission 4 bounces to gauge what you will see in mission 5.
An old style carrier landing advice video/pdf (how to fly mirror) but still relevant techniques today is here:
http://www.filefront.com/17349862/DeckLandingInstructionVideos.pdf/ (90Mbs)
The www.a4ghistory.com site is down for the moment with complaints made to service provider - no response so far....
_________________
EDIT: My first reaction to Mission 5 (complete darkness) was 'expletive deleted' 'No way'. ;D However if flown by the numbers (see night FCLP diagram in readme PDF) with sufficient practice in other missions beforehand - it is doable. If not possible to see carrier deck lights then mission 4 is a great substitute. The dusk takeoff with gradual darkness descending during the FCLP is a good way to be introduced to mission 5; or just a good substitute for mission 5.
Remember to fly the dusk mission 4 at night FCLP altitude of 1,000 feet AGL which requires a longer base turn point. There is 25 knots of wind straight down runway. If flying mission 5 then takeoff by the end of carrier deck lights with full burner and adopt a 15-20 degree noseup attitude, reduce power to max (minus burner) and do not turn downwind until at circuit height. Use 30 degree AoB. You'll be fine. ;D
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Flying by the numbers or not, its such a dynamic environment, land and sea. ILS is REQUIRED.
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OLF Coupeville Official FCLP diagram shows longer circuit for night FCLP with 'no wind' base turn time from abeam call indicated. I would use about 10-15 seconds with the 25 knot wind - probably more like ten seconds and stay at height no lower than say 800 feet AMSL (600 feet above runway) during base turn to ensure that the carrier deck lights are sighted during base turn. Adjust accordingly and fly the ball during the turn when it can be seen.
Razgriz we posted at same time. You can fly or not fly how you wish. The mission is there... No one is forcing you to fly it.
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A complete Mission 5 night FCLP 3min 19sec circuit (of sheer terror) from takeoff to landing "Mission5gotowhoaFRAPSavi.wmv" is here: 63Mbs
http://www.filefront.com/17410616/Mission5gotowhoaFRAPSavi.wmv
Not the best example (would not come down from space today but at least did not hit the ground). At 1:40 I look at the carrier lights abeam (see graphic now attached) - soon after the LSO calls abeam - and about eight seconds later I turn base. Next GIF screenshot shows approx. 'START'...
This next comment is for FSXNP: At about the middle you can see I'm a little high while the LSO calls waveoff. Perhaps if this 'too high' call is made further in 'or higher' criteria (he knows what I mean I hope) then that will be better. Thanks.
I'll explain at the last minute - after a lot of testing - a waveoff call was added if the aircraft was TOO HIGH 'in the middle' but I guess it always depends on HOW HIGH is too high. It seemed OK but then but now I think it is too restrictive.
In any event the LSO calls in these missions can only be advisory because there are a lot of other factors that cannot be taken into account. However with experience one can see that these calls are useful - if sometimes inaccurate (depending on circumstances). The last minute change was an effort to keep low flyers out of the weeds... (after starting high, high all the way - coming down at the ramp).
Really Mission 4 is a good workout with Mission 5 for ???? ;D
BTW I could make a smaller video with less detail (or edit) but I thought it worthwhile to show 'warts and all'. Video made from FRAPS (2GB) and crunched down in the latest Windows 7 Movie Maker (standard settings whatever they are). LSOs - go for it! ;D
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Same video above now on Utube but have not been able to see video/quality so far:
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'NeptunusLex' took up the video with others LSO comments (translated) here:
http://www.neptunuslex.com/2010/10/20/flashbacks/comment-page-1/#comment-645875
"
– B-> PATTAFU _HFWUAA-X_ _PNU.HCDTL_ _FAW_
-: No Grade
B: Bolter
PATAFU: Pattern All Fouled Up
_HFWUAA-X_: High Fast Wrapped Up Angling Approach to Start (Underlined = extreme)
_PNU.HCDTL_: Pull Nose Up on High Come Down To Land (underline)
_FAW_: Fast All the Way
I mighta graded it:
C ->_LIG__HFAA-X_\.LSOCALL IM LOFBAR IC-AR"
{I would have to go to the LSO Manual to translate the last one just above}
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Even he agrees about the ILS needles. Regardless of experience or practice (not to mention your 'pattern'), ILS is REQUIRED for a night landing like that. Also, I used to LSO grades like that, and will be doing that for the NATOPS mission group.
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Razgriz, I'm familiar with LSO grades and symbology but not off the top of my head these days. If someone has an opinion about ILS needles needed then they also do not know that the pattern can be flown without needing them. That is my point. IMHO the 'needles' are not required. If that is a challenge then that is the mission - if you agree to accept it. ;D
I have said enough about the pattern and demonstrated (imperfectly I'll agree) that it is possible to fly Mission 5. Please work up to it via other missions as need be. If one can use Mission 5 then your flying will be all the better for it elsewhere. This is what FCLP is about - being better where it counts.
Before ILS needles in the USN and before FLOLS, only a good breakfast of carrots and 'meatball lineup and airspeed' was required for night work. Admittedly things are different today but then again there is the challenge of the mission. Fly Mission 4 instead.
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Hello All,
This is my first post an please excuse my English.
I would like to thanks everyone who participate here i learn a lot from reading from all of you and a Big thanks to all the addons you are doing for the Acc Hornet.
Thanks 'fsxnavypilot' for those great missions.
Now i have a Question for either SpazSinbad or Razgriz, i been reading and i see there is a little difference of opinion. But i would like to know what would be the Night approach on an real carrier and how can i practice this in the mission #5 before trying it on the carrier.
Dont worry i will also practice the FCLP with mission #5 but i'd really like to know how to do it on a carrier. Unless 'fsxnavypilot' Alrady working on those missions ;)
Thanks
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Serge,
Downloaded and installed fclp_pack. Missions 1 and 2 work fine. Can't get missions 3,4,5 to load. When loading the scenery FSX gets to 86% of scenery loaded, then it crashes. It's almost as if I'm missing some scenery files or maybe I have a corrupted scenery file. Any thoughts? My OS is VISTA-32.
Bill
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WilliamCall,
Obviously there's something wrong with the scenery. I'd suggest you reinstall the KNRA scenery - first delete the KNRA scenery from within FSX, then remove KNRA_FCLP folder from FSX Addon Scenery folder. Then unzip the FCLP missions pack to a temporary folder and just copy KNRA_FCLP folder from it over to Addon Scenery and in FSX add the scenery back again. BTW, have you checked this http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3211.0;attach=9046 (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3211.0;attach=9046)?
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Letourn, you will have to ask fsxnp about practical matters of making a mission for FSX, all I did was test what was produced. AFAIK it was not possible to have an ILS for 'needles' (in the HUD) for NOLF Coupeville but no matter really from an FCLP viewpoint. On a carrier then 'needles' would be ideal but then again - it all depends.
However I will concede that having needles in the HUD (ILS) is a great convenience.
As far as I'm concerned FCLP is about flying the meatball - in the worst conditions - at night - so that the pilot is forced to fly 'meatball, line up and Opt AoA' without any other distractions being visible. If that premise is not accepted then don't bother with any FCLP. Go straight to the carrier and do your best. However I can reassure you if you master FCLP you will be much better at the carrier. That is how things work AFAIK. ;D
If you are not aware, USN pilots will fly (night with some beginner day) FCLP a lot before going to the carrier by day, and much later at night, after they have day qualified. In the USN nowadays this is first done in a T-45C by day only but most of their FCLP is done at night as I understand (as happened since the beginning of the jet era I suspect) for reasons outlined above. The technique used at night will be the same technique used for daytime carrier landings, which usually involve a circuit of the carrier much the same as FCLP.
Night Carrier Landings are quite different so please don't equate night FCLP with night carrier landings. Night FCLP is done to make the pilot a better deck lander all round - day or night - when he can see the ball. At night at the carrier it is not possible to do a night circuit so an instrument approach is done from altitude either controlled by radar or by pilot flying precision instruments. All will end up though having the pilot flying a visual approach from whatever distance he can see the ball; OR purely on instruments alone if he is able to do that (not done much in practice as I understand things today). Why is a visual approach done from being visual with the ball? Because it is more precise.
Complete automatic landings are available to arrest but seldom carried out unless an emergency or pilot is asked to do one. Usually the pilot opts for a visual approach when he can do it, to remain in practice at doing so. There is not much practice for the pilot in an automatic landing.
Razgriz has been insisting that 'needles' ILS are essential for night FCLP and I have been making the point that they are not essential for night FCLP. I have not been saying that needles are not essential for night carrier landings though. I hope that point is clear.
As you may see from my 'not very good' mission 5 video example my pattern and approach were not ideal but I have demonstrated that such a night FCLP circuit is possible. I promise I will practice more. ;D Depending on pilot skill it is always best to start with the basics and that means day FCLP then dusk then night. Attempting to fly night FCLP as setup in Mission 5 at Coupeville is not a good idea without going through the basic FCLP steps. But then again this is a desktop sim and no one is going to get hurt; but you may find the experience disappointing if you have no success.
Mission 4 is a lot of fun because it combines features of day/night and is a good transition to night FCLP and it is challenging. Flying an accurate pattern for FCLP is important especially turns at 30 degree AoB at Optimum Angle of Attack speed and don't go below recommended altitude if you cannot see the ball/carrier deck during your base turn. Remaining high allows more chance to see the carrier deck / ball if you are too far away for example. If too close then too bad, go around again and try again. No one is suggesting that night FCLP is easy. However remember if you can master night FCLP you will ace the carrier part. ;D
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WilliamCall,
Obviously there's something wrong with the scenery. I'd suggest you reinstall the KNRA scenery - first delete the KNRA scenery from within FSX, then remove KNRA_FCLP folder from FSX Addon Scenery folder. Then unzip the FCLP missions pack to a temporary folder and just copy KNRA_FCLP folder from it over to Addon Scenery and in FSX add the scenery back again. BTW, have you checked this http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3211.0;attach=9046 (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3211.0;attach=9046)?
Serge,
Yes, I was aware of the oversite with regard to the effects folder. I just deleted the KNRA_FCLP scenery from FSX, followed by removing the KNRA_FCLP folder from the FSX Addon Scenery folder. Then did a complete reinstall of the KNRA_FCLP scenery. I get the same result. When I run mission 3, the scenery starts to load, then, at the 86% loaded mark, FSX crashes. Maybe something is corrupted. I'll download the .zip file from AVSIM and start all over and see what happens.
Bill
Edit: Well, I downloaded the .zip file and started all over, same result; missions 1 and 2 work fine; missions 3,4,5 cause FSX to crash while it's loading the scenery. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Bill
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thanks Spaz for your good answer. I will practice #5 so maybe one day i get good at doing the right pattern for the carrier.
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Letourn, please don't start with Mission 5 though! :) A day carrier pattern is quite different. Either Mission 1 or 2 demonstrate the Day Carrier Pattern / Day FCLP where the circuit height is also the carrier pattern height 600 feet. Much easier to carry out in daytime. The FLOLS/mirror is more difficult to see at a distance in daylight but at NAF El Centro you should have the 'needles' ILS, not that I'm recommending you should use them because the point of FCLP is to fly the ball. Have fun, practice lots. This will make it easier at the carrier for sure.
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Edit: Well, I downloaded the .zip file and started all over, same result; missions 1 and 2 work fine; missions 3,4,5 cause FSX to crash while it's loading the scenery. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Bill
Bill,
here's what I would try if I had the same problem.
In the Addon Scenery/KNRA_FCLP/scenery folder there are five .bgl files
KNRA_FCLP.BGL
KNRA_FCLP_CVX.bgl
KNRA_runway.bgl
KNRA_skidmarks.bgl
KNRA_stuff.bgl
Rename (or move to a separate folder) runway, skidmarks and stuff BGL's and try to load any Coupeville mission in FSX again. If it loads ok, then rename/move back those previously renamed/moved BGL's one at a time to see which one crashes FSX.
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Serge,
I moved runway, skidmarks, and stuff to a separate folder. Started FSX, it detected the change and rebuilt the scenery database. Next, I selected mission 3. FSX crashed while loading the scenery, at the same location, 86% loaded point. So, there's something it doesn't like about the main two scenery .blg files for KNRA. I'll try to run a regular flight from KNRA (without selecting a mission) and see what happens.
Bill
Edit: Free flight at KNRA caused FSX to crash. Free flight at Oceana NAS worked.
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Serge,
It appears that one or both of the KNRA scenery .bgl files are not working (for me). I've downloaded and reinstalled the fclp mission pack at least four times, thinking something is getting corrupted during the download or unzipping process (no joy). Could I trouble you to post or maybe e-mail me the two primary KNRA .bgl files? Unless of course, you have some other thing I can try. I'm out of ideas. Thanks!
Bill
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Bill,
no problem. Here are the two BGL files. Hope this will help... [crossing fingers]
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Bill,
no problem. Here are the two BGL files. Hope this will help... [crossing fingers]
Well, I'm making progress. Before, the mission would crash FSX, so I tried free flight mode and that would crash FSX. Now, I can load the scenery and fly in free flight mode, but FSX still crashes when trying to run the mission. So, I thought I'd start in free flight mode, then change the time of day to night. Free flight mode started o.k., but when I changed time of day to night, FSX crashed. So, there is something about the night time scenery that it doesn't like.
Bill
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After looking for more up to date LSO information on the web these PDF page (0.3Mb) extracts from an otherwise complicated looking report appear to be useful. PDF pages for file download at end of message. Otherwise the entire PDF is just under 1Mb obtainable from here: http://robertheffleyengineering.com/docs/CV_environ/RHE_NAV_90_TR_1.pdf
OUTER-LOOP CONTROL FACTORS FOR CARRIER AIRCRAFT
Robert K. Heffley - 1 December 1990
The basics do not change all that much - even the Legacy Hornet is mentioned along with the new T-45A Goshawk....
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... So, I thought I'd start in free flight mode, then change the time of day to night. Free flight mode started o.k., but when I changed time of day to night, FSX crashed. So, there is something about the night time scenery that it doesn't like.
Bill, there is nothing night specific in my scenery, all this stuff is kept in mission files. Does your FSX load any other sceneries at night?
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... So, I thought I'd start in free flight mode, then change the time of day to night. Free flight mode started o.k., but when I changed time of day to night, FSX crashed. So, there is something about the night time scenery that it doesn't like.
Bill, there is nothing night specific in my scenery, all this stuff is kept in mission files. Does your FSX load any other sceneries at night?
Serge,
Yes, I can load other sceneries at night. This is just wierd. I'll keep working the issue. Let me know if you have any ideas.
Bill
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Ok, let's try this slightly modified scenery (I removed some urban areas, which are illuminated at night). Of course, save/rename your original file before pasting this one to the KNRA_FCLP/scenery folder.
PS. If this won't help, rename the two KNRA_FCLP*.BGL files and try to load any night FCLP mission. And don't be surprised - you'll start amidst a forest, because FSX default OLF Coupeville is somehow misplaced...
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Serge,
Thanks for the modified files! I was thinking, "Why does this work for everybody else, and not for me"? So, I took another look at when FSX crashes and noticed that it was when it was loading all the "eye candy" graphics. I reviewed the graphics configuration in FSX settings and found that most of my sliders were at their maximum values. So, I reduced a couple of sliders, and was able to run the KNAR scenery at night, while in free flight mode. Mission three still crashes, but I think that if I reduced a few more sliders, I might get the missions to run. I'll let you know.
Bill
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Dear FSXNP.
I have tried to download your KNJK_FCLP from FileFront but the site cannot find the file.
Is it still there or have you removed it?
Thank you,
Tregarth.
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2010, 09:27:13 AM »
Reply with quoteQuote
Ok, guys...
Here's my FCLP mission pack ready to fly - http://www.filefront.com/17215133/KNJK_FCLP.zip.
Any suggestions are welcome. Have fun! Grin
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Tregarth,
Yes, I have removed it. It is now a part of the FCLP missions pack, available at http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=153677&CatID=fsxmsn (http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=153677&CatID=fsxmsn). Also you will have to d/l this small addition http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3211.0;attach=9046 (http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3211.0;attach=9046).
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Guys, here are some screenshots of my IFLOLS Mk.14. This one will be used in my updated FCLP missions pack, Vol.2 8) It follows LSO NATOPS as closely as possible and, like the real Mk.14, has 12 ball cells and working datums and waveoff lights. Carrier box lighting has been reworked too - a smaller number of new lights, but visible better from a great distance.
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Going to be much better and more precise.
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Guys,
The FCLP Missions pack vol.2 is ready to go. You can get it from Avsim.com. search for FCLP Missions pack vol.2 or use direct link http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=155351&CatID=fsxmsn (http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?DLID=155351&CatID=fsxmsn).
Have fun and merry Christmas! ;D
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Thanks for the hard work fsxnp.
File Description:
FCLP Missions pack vol.2 is an updated version of the original FCLP Missions pack. The new pack features an authentic IFLOLS Mk.14, a custom FSX lights texture and modified El Centro and Coupeville sceneries as well as the missions.
Filename: fclp_pack_vol2.zip
License: Freeware
Added: 25th December 2010
Downloads: 61
Author: Serge Luzin
Size: 21253kb
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Thx FSXNP
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Thanks again for the hard work FSXNP! Will be flying these for a while as I get back in the hang of it.
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One of my favorites while using the F/A-18 Sludge. Thanks a lot.
Johan
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Interested in making some side money developing missions for Prepar3D? I'm working a project with the National Flight Academy/ Pinnacle Flight Simulations (Mike Durant's company) . I need a developer for 12 or missions with a possibility of others in the future. This would extra cash/part time work.
If interested please call at 931-627-3343 or email at marc.balistrere@soar.army.mil
Check out the NFA website
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AMAZING! ;D 8) :o
Programs
"Set to open in 2012, the National Flight Academy is poised to be the world's premiere educational experience where the excitement and wonder of flight ignites our youth's passion for Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math."
Learn Through Gaming - NFA
Immersive Educational Approach at the National Flight Academy.
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Thanks FSXNavyPilot!
Bravo Zulu!
-Capt
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Happy New Year, guys! Have fun and happy landings!
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Brilliant!
Santa has a lot to teach us about carrier landings. His reindeer throttle control is so precise.
Thank you,
Tregarth
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LSO Grade for SANTA 100:
IM - LIG, LO, F
IC - LUR, LO, F
AR - LUR
IW - LR, NEA
(OK)
Giving Santa a Fair, so I don't get coal next year. Keep those FCLPs up Santa.
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That LEAD SLED demonstrates what a 'no wheels' landing looks like. ;D
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Serge...
That was hilarious. Man, Santa probly had a little too much liquor to keep warm and now his landing grades take a hit.
Pretty funny tho!!
Later
Sludge
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Dear fsxnavypilot,
Thanks for the new pack, I am back home and just installed it. My question: the lights on my IFLOLS Mk.14 are not functioning...Is there any set up prior to flying?
Thank you again,
Johan
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Johan,
When starting any FCLP mission you should see green datum lights along with six red waveoff lights on the IFLOLS. In night practice missions (4 and 5) you also should see carrier box lighting. If you can't see any then this means that there's something wrong with the HALO.BMP file. Please make sure this file is present in the main FSX Texture folder. README.TXT describes what to do to install the pack.
Hope this will help!
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Now it works fine. Following the instructions, I had renamed the Halo.bmp to Halo.bak but I had not reverted yet. Everything works fine now, I see all the lights. Thanks again, these are great (and difficult) missions...I hear a lot of "wave off"...:). Need to get better at my approaches.
Thanks for all.
Johan