FSDreamTeam forum
General Category => Unofficial F/A-18 Acceleration Pack board => Topic started by: neutrino on December 05, 2009, 09:20:48 pm
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Hi guys, after I released the new Realistic HUD for the F/A-18 a week ago, a lot of people requested to make it available for Dino Cattaneo's T-45C Goshawk. So this is done now, the HUD fits the T-45C perfectly :D
I am waiting for Dino's permission to include the modified T-45 panel and aircraft config files in the HUD install package, and I'll post the download link here as soon as I get it!
Edit: I got in touch with Dino, so here is the link to the HUD:
http://www.simviation.com/simviation/?ID=7266 (http://www.simviation.com/simviation/?ID=7266)
Meanwhile you can check out the demo video I made featuring the Goshawk with the new HUD, which includes some formation flying and carrier landing near San Francisco 8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Njnw3FwT9s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Njnw3FwT9s)
Here are are a couple of screenshots from the vid ;D
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/neutrino2009/T-45C_1.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/neutrino2009/T-45C_2.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/neutrino2009/T-45C_3.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/neutrino2009/T-45C_4.jpg)
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/neutrino2009/T-45C_5.jpg)
Enjoy ;)
J.R.
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Great work and great video, Jivko ;D!
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Hi guys, after I released the new Realistic HUD for the F/A-18 a week ago, a lot of people requested to make it available for Dino Cattaneo's T-45C Goshawk. So this is done now, the HUD fits the T-45C perfectly :D
I am waiting for Dino's permission to include the modified T-45 panel and aircraft config files in the HUD install package, and I'll post the download link here as soon as I get it! ....
Thank you, Mr. J. R. "neutrino"!
Would you consider doing the same for his F-14D next?
PS: Nice video! 8)
Here's the real deal...
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neutrino, another great job with the video. Looks like a lot of fun. Minor point about 'having wheels down before base turn' by probably increasing interval from leader so that you land without the leader still 'fouling the deck'. In real instance you would be 'waved off' because of foul deck caused by above. No worries though the video is very instructive about what it 'feels' like to be in a pair returning to carrier etc. Good work. ;D PLAT view looks terrific. What a great addition to FSX this 'new improved all singing all dancing' HUD will be.
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Thanks J.R. I shall look forward to your improvements.
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Excellent,Thank You JR!!!! ;D
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Thanks Nuetrino for working on the T-45C HUD, and for sharing the great video!
One question, is the PLAT camera in the video something you created that is usable in FSX, or did you just add it in the post processing/editing of the video?
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I have to copy that
''Thanks Nuetrino for working on the T-45C HUD, and for sharing the great video!''
You and your friends are magicians
Randy
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Neutron BOMB!!!
Dude, you have great talent. Not only w/mod skillz and ideas, but your videos are tight!! You definately capture the feeling of carrier landings. Nobody does it better.
Later
Sludge
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Great video, that'll give some beginners the idea, and the same for me.
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J.R.
Youve done it again my friend..:)
Great video!!!!, bet the LSO had to change his shorts after the first T45 nearly got taken out by the 2nd T45
and then the deck tractor tried to finish the job... ;D
Sludge is right your mod skillz are off the hook have a virtual beer on me!!! would buy you a real one but
Bulgaria is a bit far away.
SonofaBeech out
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Hi Capt, the PLAT camera view is available in Orion Lyau 's new Multiplayer Nimitz mission, and the cross-hairs and the data are a gauge that is separately installed in the aircraft. So if you have the mission, you can switch to the PLAT camera view and open up the gauge 8) It would be really nice to play a virtual LSO ;D
Thanks Nuetrino for working on the T-45C HUD, and for sharing the great video!
One question, is the PLAT camera in the video something you created that is usable in FSX, or did you just add it in the post processing/editing of the video?
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Hi Capt, the PLAT camera view is available in Orion Lyau 's new Multiplayer Nimitz mission, and the cross-hairs and the data are a gauge that is separately installed in the aircraft. So if you have the mission, you can switch to the PLAT camera view and open up the gauge 8) It would be really nice to play a virtual LSO ;D
Thanks Nuetrino for working on the T-45C HUD, and for sharing the great video!
One question, is the PLAT camera in the video something you created that is usable in FSX, or did you just add it in the post processing/editing of the video?
Can you provide the gauge link? :)
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The request never ends!! How about a HUD for the T6A? That would make it (almost) a T6B which the USN pilot training are using!
;D
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Hi, I uploaded the PLAT gauge here:
http://www.simviation.com/simviation/?ID=67&page=4&mark=7255 (http://www.simviation.com/simviation/?ID=67&page=4&mark=7255)
J.R.
Hi Capt, the PLAT camera view is available in Orion Lyau 's new Multiplayer Nimitz mission, and the cross-hairs and the data are a gauge that is separately installed in the aircraft. So if you have the mission, you can switch to the PLAT camera view and open up the gauge 8) It would be really nice to play a virtual LSO ;D
Thanks Neutrino for working on the T-45C HUD, and for sharing the great video!
One question, is the PLAT camera in the video something you created that is usable in FSX, or did you just add it in the post processing/editing of the video?
Can you provide the gauge link? :)
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Where ris the Orion Lyau's mission ref to???
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http://www.fswaterconfigurator.com/forum/index.php?topic=593.0
He made a multiplayer carrier ops mission in SF a while back (in February it was released if I recall).
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Hi, I uploaded the PLAT gauge here:
http://www.simviation.com/simviation/?ID=67&page=4&mark=7255 (http://www.simviation.com/simviation/?ID=67&page=4&mark=7255)
Thank you, Mr. J. R. "neutrino"!
However, Simviation is experiencing a "DOWN-TIME" and the link no longer works... Will try again tonight.
Also, Can your PLAT camera gauge be used in a 2D Panel or FSX Camera View panel as well?
Thanks again! 8)
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Hi, I uploaded the PLAT gauge here:
http://www.simviation.com/simviation/?ID=67&page=4&mark=7255 (http://www.simviation.com/simviation/?ID=67&page=4&mark=7255)
Thank you, Mr. J. R. "neutrino"!
However, Simviation is experiencing a "DOWN-TIME" and the link no longer works... Will try again tonight.
Also, Can your PLAT camera gauge be used in a 2D Panel or FSX Camera View panel as well?
Thanks again! 8)
I've put it in my attachments for you.
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I've put it in my attachments for you.
That's much appreciated; Thank you, Mr. "Razgriz"!
Downloading now... :D
EDIT: Got it; will try it tonight; Thanks again! ;)
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Thanks for all the info everyone with uploads/downloads etc.
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Where ris the Orion Lyau's mission ref to???
It's an upcoming multiplayer mission for FSX Acceleration, which lets you use Javier's Nimitz carrier in multiplayer. I hope to release it the weekend before Christmas.
See development thread here: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=2224.0 ;).
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Hi guys, I apologize for the delay, here is the link to the HUD:
http://www.simviation.com/simviation/?ID=7266 (http://www.simviation.com/simviation/?ID=7266)
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Got it yesterday. Thanks again.
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Hi guys, I apologize for the delay, here is the link to the HUD:
http://www.simviation.com/simviation/?ID=7266 (http://www.simviation.com/simviation/?ID=7266)
Thanks, Mr. J. R. "neutrino" and Merry Christmas! (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/smilies/wavey.gif)
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neutrino, (and testers) Once again a great job with the new HUD for Goshawk T-45C by Dino. Thanks very much. The FSX Hornet and freeware Goshawk have got to be a great carrier landing combination now. Being able to get setup from any distance to make the transition to 'meatball & lineup' when visible is just the best thing to have happened to MsFlightSim ever (for carrier landings anyway). ::) Many thanks again, especially for the comprehensive 'readme.txt' - excellent.
I look forward to some great videos now. :o
PS. Would it be possible to have a clear glass HUD for the Goshawk please? :-*
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Here's a Goshawk screeny of carrier approach in VFR weather. I'm low but a slight correction got me to a trap. Fuel was 40%. Wind was 173 degrees heading at 5 kts.
Nose wheel steering indication on the HUD.
Something neutrino left out of the readme, I think, so he explained it on a forum elsewhere-----
48 it the lowest speed the real Hornet HUD can show. You can see this in this video for example:,
Even if it did show a lower reading, that would be your air speed, which when on the carrier deck, will be the speed of the carrier +/- the wind speed, and it will still not be a good indication of your taxiing speed. However, there is a Nose Wheel Steering cue displayed in the lower right corner of the HUD. If it shows 'NWS HI' - this means that your taxiing speed is low enough so that you can apply full deflection of the nose wheel. If it shows only 'NWS', this means your taxiing speed is too high and you should use a much smaller deflection. So to avoid flipping during taxiing, make sure you see the 'NWS HI' cue.
The NWS cues in the real Hornet indicate in which of the two modes the Nose Wheel Steering system is - low gain ('NWS' cue) or high gain ('NWS HI'). In the low mode ('NWS'), full rudder pedal deflection commands approx 16° of nosewheel deflection. In the high mode ('NWS HI'), full rudder pedal deflection commands approx 75° of nosewheel deflection. The NWS mode is selected from a switch on the stick. This however is not implemented in the Acceleration Hornet and I used the logic above in the HUD.
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wilycoyote4, thanks - good to know. What would be the other forum?
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wilycoyote4, thanks - good to know. What would be the other forum?
Dunno, can't remember just now, he's posted on flightsim, simviation, simouthouse, etc., but I'll check again. I copied the post for my own good and share it here.
In addition, I know the HUD can track the closest carrier if there is more than one carrier in the range area. If you get closer to another carrier then it will switch to the next carrier closest to your new position in flight.
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Spaz, I posted what wily quoted on Simviation here (http://205.252.250.26/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1259544640/9#9) as a response to why the HUD does not show speed below 48 kts. I left that out of the readme as I thought it would be too much detail ;)
wilycoyote4, thanks - good to know. What would be the other forum?
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neutrino, as people are saying here and elsewhere 'carrier landings sure got much more doable in FSX now' thanks to your team's sterling efforts.
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Spaz, thanks ::) I just posted on another forum something that you might find interesting, you can correct me if I am wrong about something, I used your pdf file as a reference for the T-45C. This was the original question:
That is a nice video. One question, however. Does the T-45 land without flaps as shown in the video? It would seem to me that you would want to use flaps on landing?
... And below is what I posted:
The correct thing of course is to land with full flaps, but I did not use flaps at all in the video. The reason is that Dino's T-45C reaches it's optimum approach angle of attack (about 8 degrees or the velocity vector centered in the E-bracket) at a very low speed of about 105 kts with full flaps. The real T-45C landing speed (with full flaps) however is about 120 kts. So I wanted to land at the optimum approach angle of attack AND at the real T-45C landing speed of 120 kts. I found that this could be achieved with flaps UP (no flpas) and speed brake ON. It also helps to land at a higher speed if you land at max fuel.
This is a screenshot from the video. You can see that the aircraft is at the optimum AOA (yellow donut on the indexer and velocity vector in the center of the E-bracket) at 119 kts:
(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/neutrino2009/T-45COptimumAOA.jpg)
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neutrino, I cannot speak for Dino Cattaneo but we had an e-mail conversation about that aspect (slower than advertised IAS for Goshawk in FSX). The 'Goshawk Gouge' advertises the IAS for different weights in 500lb increments (I think) for Optimum AoA (I'll have to check). Which is best to use? IMHO I think using the conditions set by the Fsim model designer is the way to go - others may have a different opinion. Perhaps Dino will go back to making modifications to the Goshawk. Why don't you contact him about it? He must be pleased with the new HUD - which shows the inaccuracy (remember before the NEW HUD, the real world IAS could be gleaned from the aircraft tables only).
Carrier Landings are carried out in a standard configuration. Anything else is an 'emergency' of some kind. The LSO would make special consideration for the 'emergency' - the pilot also. A Goshawk would not carrier land unless it could do so in FULL FLAP. Not sure if they would practice ship carrier landings in any other configuration except hook down. It can land with full fuel so that is not an issue. Always the IAS will be whatever the Optimum Angle of Attack is for the given weight. The chart exists to allow a rough check by pilot that his AoA indexer is working accurately.
The LSO needs a standard configuration to enable him to gauge the approach in the same conditions for any aircraft type. If that aircraft is at Opt AoA then it looks the same to him. This is important. The LSO uses the aircraft attitude for a physical frame of reference that is very accurate. He knows more than the pilot - no kidding. By inference then if the aircraft landing config is changed from the standard then that is a different frame of reference which the LSO has to allow for and likely will not be so familiar with (except ashore).
My Goshawk landing technique is to use FULL FUEL to get the slow Opt AoA up - the engine RPM is up also.
REQUEST: Would it be possible to add .PDF to the file types that can be added as attachments to this forum please? PDFs allow documents to be the same - unlike .DOCs for example where formatting can change radically. In any event I'll make a .DOC out of a TRAWNG PDF and attach it soon (if the conversion from PDF to .DOC goes OK but it does not look good due to a 'funny' font being used in the original PDF).
HMMMM. :o I did not notice that .ZIP is a possibility so here is an edited GOSHAWK 'how to deck land' PDF zipped. It does not have everything but nothing ever does eh. More PDFs zipped later....
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Mr. J. R. "neutrino,"
Thanks again for the fine work you've done to this...
The only thing I found missing in your Aircraft.cfg is the correct TAILHOOK settings for Mr. Dino's model.
You can find the settings here: Aircraft AI Carrier Configurations v1.9 by James F. Chams (http://x-plane.org/home/JamesChams/AI_Carrier_Addon_Aircraft_Configurations.txt)
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T-45C Goshawk v1.85
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Modify this "Aircraft.Cfg" File with the statements below:
...\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\SimObjects\Airplanes\Boeing_T45C\Aircraft.Cfg
// Modified by James F. Chams @2009.
// =================================
[tailHook]
tailhook_length=2.5
tailhook_position=-15.6, 0.0, -2.63 // -18.6, 0.0, -2.63 // Modified to align correctly with the Tailhook
cable_force_adjust=1.5
Launch Assist in coded into the model's (.mdl) file and is therefore NOT needed here.
====================================================
Thanks again! 8)
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James, thanks for the 'hook/arrest' mod. Can you explain please briefly? Thanks.
Here is the TakeOff/Landing Weight IAS chart for the Goshawk (AFAIK). The other than full flap settings for landing are for ashore 'emergency' or otherwise 'practice' landings. To my knowledge there is no provision for landing onboard other than with full flap.
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James, thanks for the 'hook/arrest' mod. Can you explain please briefly? Thanks.
Here is the TakeOff/Landing Weight IAS chart for the Goshawk (AFAIK). The other than full flap settings for landing are for ashore 'emergency' or otherwise 'practice' landings. To my knowledge there is no provision for landing onboard other than with full flap.
Mr. "SpazSinbad,"
I'm NOT entirely sure I understand your question? However, if your looking for what is done (proceedurally) on an approach to a carrier then it is based on exact weight/speed criteria as the chart describes. However, for the T-45A FULL Flaps were always used on approaches as a requirement for shipboard operations due to the limited Thrust-weight characteristics of the engine and the slow speeds of the aircraft on the approach. But, that was often with low fuel onboard and all remaining ordinances jettisoned. FYI: Full flaps allows for higher lift gain characters at slower speeds and, in LOW pressure atmospheric environments, maintaining/controlling lift on an approach is a must. But, for the T-45C, I'm NOT sure what they've implemented since then. I suggest getting a hold of an AFM, if able.
Is that what you were asking?
EDIT:
Look at pages 5-21 of the manual you've posted. It says, ...
"d. Maintain 130 KIAS (dirty)."
The word "Dirty" means FULL Flaps, etc. ... Hope that answers your question. ;)
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Jame, Apologies, we got our wires crossed. My question was about why the mod was made. I have an understanding of carrier landings otherwise. I'll say more about the Goshawk carrier landing later. Gotta go at moment - 'later' as they say...
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...My question was about why the mod was made....
Mr. "SpazSinbad,"
Simply to fix issues like this (incorrect "Aircraft.cfg" Tailhook settings vs. models placement causing mishaps, like missed wires/crashes, on Carrier landings). And, to add Carrier Functionality to models that didn't have it to begin with but, either by user desire/request or because they are Naval/Carrier Aircraft, should have had that ability installed. Now they do... ;)
e.g.
Problem: CaptainSim F/A-18D (settings off)
(http://x-plane.org/home/JamesChams/Photos/AC6.jpg)
Solution: CaptainSim F/A-18D (settings Tailhook Fixed)
(http://x-plane.org/home/JamesChams/Photos/AC6a.jpg)
Sleep well! :)
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James, Thanks I had seen your earlier posts about the issues with the hook placement in regard to the FSX Hornet, so I was wondering about the Goshawk problem. Good to know it is fixed. Thanks for that. You can call me 'Spaz' by the way. That is why the moniker is like it is. Sometimes things happen when one has an online name that is not one's own name. 'Spaz' suits me fine. 8)
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James, about the Goshawk T-45C real or simulated carrier landing characteristics I can go only on what I've read (mentioned in various threads about these issues on this forum). I don't have a Goshawk NATOPS but the 'gouges' I have read look to have come from those 'pilot flying manuals' along with course notes for the same.
Not having flown a Hornet either it was very interesting to discover this forum with the extreme levels of skill in flying/modding the Hornet in FSX to be found. Why go anywhere else. I have learnt a lot - also being forced to find my own answers about various issues (perhaps not relevant to the sim).
Anyway to me it is interesting to see how real and sim world intermingle when people talk about the Hornet or the Goshawk on this forum. It is good to see because I think it shows just how good it all is in the simulator itself (given all the restrictions that are inevitable with the PC platform with small screens etc.).
PC simulator flying - especially carrier flying - has made a huge leap with the mods from people on this forum. My experience with MsFsim goes back to the beginning but with a quick realisation that the setups were just not good enough (for carrier aviation).
My own flying experience was in the RAN FAA some 35-40 years ago flying Skyhawks from the smallest carrier possible. Every time I'm using Fsim (particularly later versions) it has been extraordinary to be able to recreate (in my mind anyway) that feeling of flying via the sim. That is an advantage for those who have been in a light aeroplane/or similar at the controls that others may not have. However the big advantage for desk pilots is that they can walk away from every crash, which may not bring the best out of the sim flying pilot.
My attempt here is to contribute not so much any technical skills about sim aviation modding but to add a dose of realism (if that is possible) to some of the flying techniques. For any carrier pilot there is nothing else to do - runway landings can be problematic - if one makes them that way - but carrier flying requires the best all the time. Sure there are crashes but the 'motivation' as you see in that zipped PDF 'is to do your best at every opportunity'.
However we all need to have fun and to experiment with different settings or ways of flying - I have no argument with that at all. Yet there is a way to do carrier flying properly and that can be kept in mind or stressed as needs be. To me that marvellous video of the pair of Goshawks returning to the carrier in SanFran captured what it is like (notwithstanding some errors discussed already) but the spirit was there and good to see, very inspiring.
Anyway I cannot claim to have knowledge of USN aircraft of today, only the Skyhawk A4G, but the principles of carrier flying apply (as I read/hear/understand) even today. Meatball, lineup and airspeed. If you don't have your flaps down the LSO will shout "FLAPS" or wave you off! I've not looked at the Goshawk T-45A specifications so cannot comment. Anyway your ideas about being dirty with everything hanging out is the way to carrier land for reasons you describe. One exception being that the Hornet does not use speedbrake due to technical difficulties. However in the sim it could be used (with the full flap mod) to help get/keep the engine RPM up during the carrier approach.
I'd rather refer to publications or websites online or the excellent movie made by the Virtual Blue Angels (mentioned a few times on this forum). However I'm happy to attempt to answer specific questions as best as possible, given the limitations outlined earlier. BTW I've not used the multi-player mode/carriers so cannot comment on them or the missions but have noted (other comments) that they are also good work. What a great forum this is. I'll shutup now. ;D
NB: A lot of the material seen here ends up in the 4.4GB PDF online - that is my motivation. Your questions help give content to this PDF regarding carrier landings today (compared to yesteryear for example). The GIF graphic below will be another PDF page in the Goshawk 'how to carrier land' section.
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James, a point about the reference you gave (page 5.21) in the PDF manual. The 130 knots refers to the IAS required dirty in the DELTA (holding) pattern [Delta Easy] (waiting to get into the carrier circuit). Otherwise the aicraft must go to Optimum Angle of Attack going downwind turning base etc for final approach. Page 5-17 onwards is the carrier circuit reference. Then after a touch and go or bolter turning downwind 130 knots is a speed reference but otherwise Optimum Angle of Attack. Students get a bit more IAS for 'margin of error' but otherwise carrier pilots fly Opt AoA in circuit (unless stated otherwise).
FCLP starting page 1.-14 has the detail that is not repeated (because it is more or less the same) out at the ship.
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From the same zipped PDF this very much edited GIF graphic has the required details for Goshawk T-45C FCLP which are the same it is made clear for out at the carrier. Of course it is much better to read the entire PDF because there are many details edited out. Of much more importance in the PDF are techniques for specific situations during the approach. Bear in mind these are notes for a lecture, which when given will be fleshed out with a lot of verbal explanation.
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ALL the Goshawk T-45C PDFs from 'the horse's mouth' CNATRA: https://www.cnatra.navy.mil/pubs/ppub_t45_str.htm
(Don't worry about any 'security' warning in Windows - this is a common problem - just click through)
ALL Publications available on 'download page' PDF (zipped) with the clickable URLs in "Chief of Naval Air Training _ T-45 Strike ALL pub URLs.pdf" (14Kb)
Another more friendly page (mentioned earlier) without all the pubs is at: http://www.airwarrior.net/Files.html
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Mr. "Spaz," it is... :) Thanks for the .PDF's; its well worth the read for the Sim, as it is for the Real world.
Have A Merry Christmas! :)
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No probs. Have a good Xmas yourself and get a copy of the FSX Accelerator KAHU A-4K Skyhawk for a present. ;D BTW I did not get a chance to check the .AIR file modifications before it is released so 'Don't Blame Me! ::) Nah it should be fine. The HUD has the AoA indication while similar to Hornet/Goshawk the AoA Indexer was retained next to the HUD. The A-4K has a brake chute, buddy refuel tank option with several others, working leading edge slats, proper spoiler / speedbrake interface - de woiks including da hook.
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must be a "DUH", but where is the D/L for the T45 hud????
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This link will take you to SimAviation page with both Goshawk and Tomcat NEW HUDs:
http://www.simviation.com/simviation/?ID=64&page=1000
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I have had the "new" T45 for sometime, I thiought there was a new "HUD" !!!
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Pop, the link posted takes me to the NEW HUD for both the Goshawk (first top of page and then lower down) & Tomcat. BELOW is the actual download link for Goshawk new HUD if you are logged on:
http://www.simviation.com/simviation/download.php?ID=7266 (12Kb zipped file)
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The 2d hud FPM and the VC hud FPM don't point in the same place, there not coordinated. I don't understand why? The VC hud is to the left of where it should be. My watermark in 2d is on centerline, but in VC its to the left.
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Try pressing Ctrl+Space to reset your view...
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T-45C Goshawk NATOPS diagram for Carrier Circuits (Crash and Dash):
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This diagram from Goshawk T-45C NATOPS, being the downwind IAS/Weight/Optimum AoA check. The Dino Cattaneo Goshawk T-45C will not be accurate but fly the Optimum AoA in correct landing configuration anyway IMHO. Contact Dino at: http://indiafoxtecho.blogspot.com/ to encourage him to take a break from JSF-A FSX work and rework the Goshawk parameters - politely. :-) Congratulate him on his excellent work also. ['on speed' = Optimum Angle of Attack - Orange doughnut on indexer]
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Graph from T-45A NATOPS (no similar graphs in T-45C - so presume same data?)
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My default viewpoint is offset, any ideas how to change?
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Thank you for this new HUD. Is there a way to make the glass of the HUD of the T-45C and the F-14 less "shiny"?
Thank you.