FSDreamTeam forum
General Category => Unofficial F/A-18 Acceleration Pack board => Topic started by: Doum76 on August 12, 2009, 07:48:18 pm
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Well i would like to thank jimi08, Razgriz and SpazSinbad for their replies on my post about steady turns, controling the Hornet and some landings advices, with their advices, the nice video linked from FSX Blue Angels, after a few days i've been sick, i go back in the Sim, and with lots of practices, i finaly can land the sexy Hornet on the Carrier! ;D
I now have most settings in Realism in Flight Model options seted-up to 90% and the Crash Tolerence up to 100%, Detect crashes and damages enable and Aircraft Stress causes damages checked, and i don't crash that poor F/A-18, 5 sucessful landing out of 6. Cheer! ;D
Mostly steady 600 f.t pattern up to the 180, about 600-550 for the last 90 up to the final, trying to keep the ball where i won't make «bobo» :D I'm practicing with the Day Trap from Top Gun Sim. LSO's a little bit more detailed, and gives a grade after each passes, 2 times i ended up with a let's call OK-4 (no calling during the apprach and only comment he said on debrief was «4 wire». Nothing big for you guys, but for me, with that so much practice, it made me smile a lot, jsut felt to share the news with people. :)
I gotta say last night i've found an airport with PAPI4, and since a few weeks i've never really did land landings, i gotta say with that hard training and practice on a Carrier, all land landings are a real joke now, i was crashing a few times before practicing Carrier since i was kinda new in the Sims, now, i land no matter far or close i am from runaway and keep the PAPI 90% as it should be and even without lights, i make nice landings now since i got use to the rate of descent and the Donuts. :) Virtual beer for everyone, and total respect for all fighter pilots out there that had to go through that painful real world stuff.
-Doum
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Congrats ;)
Randy
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Now that you've figured out how to land its time to do those Hornet missions and earn some badges.
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Now that you've figured out how to land its time to do those Hornet missions and earn some badges.
Looking forward for it, but the website is offline for upgrade, from what i've seen, i think i'll have much more practice to do to get on that score board, but the good thing is, from most video i've seen on Youtube while trying to catch up some hints, my landings are pretty much way better than those «CrashDummies» landings. :)
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Doum76, congratulations. ;D Any chance you can make a video please? For the education in it. Thanks. If you want to edit the video then that is OK. Making such a video can be a chore though, so only do it if you want to show us.
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Now that you've figured out how to land its time to do those Hornet missions and earn some badges.
Looking forward for it, but the website is offline for upgrade, from what i've seen, i think i'll have much more practice to do to get on that score board, but the good thing is, from most video i've seen on Youtube while trying to catch up some hints, my landings are pretty much way better than those «CrashDummies» landings. :)
No I mean the stock FSX acceleration Hornet missions.
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No I mean the stock FSX acceleration Hornet missions.
Oh, those badges :) my bad, well so far i've got the landings badges up to the 400 landings, not to mention the multi-engine hours and total hours badges, that'S a lot of flying around to be able to get better at landing/carrier landings.
I used to hate landing in FS, but now in FSX and the Hornet, it's what i like most.
I've been able to get the sonic boom on it today, adds a little fun to make some flybys around the carrier and get that little boom before landing safely. :)
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Well I'm refering to the missions which are quite challenging. The 1st the Carrier Tutorial, 2nd Carrier practice, 3rd is a patrol around Cape Canaveral whilst a rocket is launched, 4th is intercepting a UFO at groom lake and 5th is Night Carrier landing without ILS/Tacan. The Carrier practice requires 5 consecutive landings although you can inflight refuel if you need to.
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Well I'm refering to the missions which are quite challenging. The 1st the Carrier Tutorial, 2nd Carrier practice, 3rd is a patrol around Cape Canaveral whilst a rocket is launched, 4th is intercepting a UFO at groom lake and 5th is Night Carrier landing without ILS/Tacan. The Carrier practice requires 5 consecutive landings although you can inflight refuel if you need to.
I've done the Turtorial one, that was the first carrier mission i did, and made my fisrt part of training with the 5 passes mission, but way too tough, cloudy, windy like hell, i even tried to practice with modif. enable toc hange weather, but still a bit tough, thats why i ended up to practice with TGS missions, was a bit easier to start and master, i even retried today the 5 passes mission, hard as hell, i'm having such a hard time to keep the Hornet a steady course with the wind.
Looks like am not yet good enough for this one.
The others i haven't tried yet, trying to master the Hornet better before going in those hard missions, at least i'm doing improvement with the pattern, altitude, turnings, geting right distance, today i did practice the final approach to keep on almost perfect Ball, to recover when too low, or too high, lots of challenge for someone like me new in the aviation stuff, but at least, i just stoped and came on here, and i just made my first pattern with ending with a almost Ok-3, had a slow start, but nothing else, and traped the 3 wire. ;D You can be sure when i'll be able to land on FSX mission's carrier, i will be kinda proud.
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Well I'm refering to the missions which are quite challenging. The 1st the Carrier Tutorial, 2nd Carrier practice, 3rd is a patrol around Cape Canaveral whilst a rocket is launched, 4th is intercepting a UFO at groom lake and 5th is Night Carrier landing without ILS/Tacan. The Carrier practice requires 5 consecutive landings although you can inflight refuel if you need to.
Whoa, i just tried the Carrier Landing IMC, that is a nasty one, not easy to fly in formation and follow, but i did land the bird, had to save mission progress at 2 points where i had problem, specialy the part when the lead call in for the 130 knots and 600 descend, i had problem to follow him, at first i thought he meant slow down at 130 kias, and get a 600 r.o.d, but after 2 try i realised he meant to get down to 600 until teh call for final :-\ sometimes i missunderstand some english stuff. :( But this is an awesome mission!!
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Yeah that was a fun mission to beat certainly difficult since there is no ILS.
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Yeah that was a fun mission to beat certainly difficult since there is no ILS.
Yeah, its tough in the storm. I did it first time though.
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Its most likely setting are to high and plane jumps around a lot but when you get them right its a bit more real.Then when you get your 5 landings be sure to have the radar set to 40 miles and find the airborne refueler. You can refuel ;)
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Its most likely setting are to high and plane jumps around a lot but when you get them right its a bit more real.Then when you get your 5 landings be sure to have the radar set to 40 miles and find the airborne refueler. You can refuel ;)
Got any advice on settings, i'm having a kinda hard time to understand Trim, when use it or not, for exemple, in the mission at night in formation with your lead, would it be used to fly with or not, specialy the last part, when reaching 600 fts, and when droping for the final, i don't why, in this mission i land easier with out trim, and on some other mission better with it, maybe i set trim too high so when i give a bit too much thrust the nose raise too much and skrew up my glideslope. :(
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Perhaps a 'rule of thumb' will help with controlling the Hornet. "You control the aircraft, the aircraft does not control you." Especially on approach to the carrier you must be in total control, anticipating what is required to stay on an OK approach. Nothing else will do. Similarly in flight the trim must be as close as possible to the conditions being flown; so that there are minimal forces required to stay in any steady state of flight.
Only formation teams like the Blue Angels are allowed to fly 'out of trim' for the special circumstances they fly under. Usually this means they fly with a lot of nose down trim requiring them to 'pull towards' i.e. a positive pull UP to stay in formation - so they fly smoother that way.
A carrier pilot may fly an approach with a notch (a very small amount of nose down trim for similar reasons - for smoothness) but I reckon that is not required - because a carrier approach is never smooth. :-) It is never smooth because it must be accurate all the way, every deviation from ideal must be corrected ASAP.
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Perhaps a 'rule of thumb' will help with controlling the Hornet. "You control the aircraft, the aircraft does not control you." Especially on approach to the carrier you must be in total control, anticipating what is required to stay on an OK approach. Nothing else will do. Similarly in flight the trim must be as close as possible to the conditions being flown; so that there are minimal forces required to stay in any steady state of flight.
Only formation teams like the Blue Angels are allowed to fly 'out of trim' for the special circumstances they fly under. Usually this means they fly with a lot of nose down trim requiring them to 'pull towards' i.e. a positive pull UP to stay in formation - so they fly smoother that way.
A carrier pilot may fly an approach with a notch (a very small amount of nose down trim for similar reasons - for smoothness) but I reckon that is not required - because a carrier approach is never smooth. :-) It is never smooth because it must be accurate all the way, every deviation from ideal must be corrected ASAP.
Nice, thanks for the info, always nice to know some stuff about the actual real life procedure, i'm a kinda curious person that loves to learn new stuff. ;D I alway been amaze by fighter pilot, making flying look so gracious, easy and precise.
I've been doing carrier landing not bad at all, just so far the Carrier Practice and IMC mission from Acc. Pack are tough to actual understand how stuff works good with the important weather condition, i do prety well out of Practice 5 passes mission, but that one, i aboslutely look like a retard, the plane is really looking like a leave in the wind, i feel like dancing a tango with it ;D and when getting on the ramp, i'm so missplaced on the glideslope or lineup, that makes the old movie «Gone with the wind» have a different sequel. ;)
Besides that i end up setting Trim good, so i mostly only have to play with throttle to adjust RoD or RoA, and get the perfect Donut with minimum work. But as i say in the IMC mission not easy to folow a plane while adjusting trim for either descend or lvl fly. And since it was my first try as formation flying, was curious about how the real thing was done.
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Doum76, a fast jet pilot practices formation all the time as part of regular operations (two aircraft formation - leader and wingman) so that formation flying is not special. However any fast jet pilot is working 'like a one-armed wallpaper hanger' ALL THE TIME. And if he is not working hard then something is wrong. This is the way of it. Especially on a carrier approach, there is nothing smooth or graceful about it from the inside. What it looks like from the outside is only relevant to the LSO. BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO CRASH THEN LOOK GOOD (old fighter pilot motto). ;D
Seriously, using the trim button to trim appropriately is important, and part of flying well. Practice will get you to trim all the time. However DO NOT FLY with the trim button. Take out flying forces with the trim though - as required - after using the controls. With practice it becomes second nature. Having a few seconds downwind, dirty at Optimum Angle of Attack, wings level at circuit level altitude, so that trim is accurate in that condition, is important.
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Doum76, a fast jet pilot practices formation all the time as part of regular operations (two aircraft formation - leader and wingman) so that formation flying is not special. However any fast jet pilot is working 'like a one-armed wallpaper hanger' ALL THE TIME. And if he is not working hard then something is wrong. This is the way of it. Especially on a carrier approach, there is nothing smooth or graceful about it from the inside. What it looks like from the outside is only relevant to the LSO. BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO CRASH THEN LOOK GOOD (old fighter pilot motto). ;D
Well of course is nothing special at first for formation flying since they come in pairs :) but still, that is a not so easy task to accomplish at first, and what does make it graceful for me, is the fact of making something for those doing it, tough to work for it, look so simple to other peoples eyes looking at it, that seems as easy as ABC :) And don't worry, in the Sim i follow the motto, when i crash, i do it with both hands-up like in a roller coaster :P
Seriously, using the trim button to trim appropriately is important, and part of flying well. Practice will get you to trim all the time. However DO NOT FLY with the trim button. Take out flying forces with the trim though - as required - after using the controls. With practice it becomes second nature. Having a few seconds downwind, dirty at Optimum Angle of Attack, wings level at circuit level altitude, so that trim is accurate in that condition, is important.
Funny that you wrote that, i just came on the forum, been flying a bit earlier today before making my awesome lasagna :) and what i did in todays Sim world, was first, fixing up stuff with my joystick, was kinda stiff, so was tough to make tiny adjustement, the springs i guess where still strong from brand new, so to made small adjustement ended up by making a resistance and when the stick passes that little zone, ended up with a sudden movement making precision movement like in final, or formation, being more drastic, so being trying out deadzones for the spot it made unpleasant movement, after came up with the idea maybe spring was too new, not used much, so i jsut made some movement in all direction a few minutes, now it'sa bit better less stiff, makes a difference! Was a bit of the reason i had problem flying, keeping nice angle on turns, formation etc...
After that with this fixed, i only did some Triming practice, nothing much else, practicing triming for a certain speed i.e. 200 knots with wing level, and flying for a bit leveled with only throttle adjusement to stay on altitude, then going for a different speed, gradualy incrasing throttle to aim 250 knots while at the same time gradualy trimming down trying as much as possible to do it with affecting too much altitude until wing leveled, then same, straight flying to practice staying on a precise RoD or RoA or leveled, while using as a ref., the speed of the path indicator moving up or down and the RoD and RoA moving to control with the throttle adjusement. Practice that flying Dirty also with gears, flaps and hook up also, then droping in Dirty, same gradualy to get an Optimum Sweet Orange Donut, flying wing level with the Donut and just minor adjustements with throttle, then down to a 600-700 RoD and keep it steady. Told myself if i practice that a lot, and kinda master it, it will become automatic to do, and make flying, landing way much easier. I even made some low lvl flying at 500 knots, 600 ft just a bit over threes, crossing ridges, while turning upside down to get down the other side of the ridge etc... Adjusting trim for speed change, i.e. when going from 400 knots for flying for a while then when droepd to 600 ft, 500 knots, trimed back for that speed.
I even tried an High Alpha, i am just not too sure about the exact speed and AoA to do it, but i made it 120 knots and about an AoA of 15 degree, with low fuel also extrem to practice, about 95 knots, AoA of 24 degree.
Well enough for now, will already take you for a while to read this novel. :) And thanks agian for the comments, avice and stuff.
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Doum76, my comments are about flying in general, how they apply to FSX is too complicated for any individual to understand about another individual (via interent) because; as you point out, a lot depends on the sim equipment in use. I have tried many 'flightsticks'; but stick with my old Microsoft Sidewinder with a really sloppy feel to it and a ridiculously sensitive 'twist for rudder' implementation - I'm used to how it works now. In no way would anyone use such a 'monster control column' in a real aircraft of any description. :-)
It is worthwhile to practice at circuit height - dirty - trimmed so that - as you are saying - the Rate of Descent is controlled by the power etc. Always good to do because it is a different way to fly, compared to ordinary 'Air Force' circuits on land. ;D However it is always good to practice ashore by using carrier technique with whatever landing aids available.