FSDreamTeam forum
General Category => Unofficial F/A-18 Acceleration Pack board => Topic started by: Voodoo on December 08, 2007, 10:13:14 pm
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When viewing the rear of the F18 from an outside view, what are the strange red and green lights (red on the left and green on the right) that appear right in the centre of the afterburners as you slowly progress the throttles into the afterburner range? The green one on the right comes on first and then goes out as you push the throttle further, then the red one on the left comes on and it too goes off as you increase the throttle further.
It looks like something left over from a programming testing stage but how on earth can we get rid of it?! Can we edit a texture somewhere?
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I see that you haven't received any answers yet ... so I'll give it a shot. I guessing here ... but because the AB effects are basically "lights" as far as FSX is concerned, what you are seeing is therefore likely related to the left wingtip light (red) and the right wingtip light (green) somehow being displayed in the location of the corresponding left/right engine AB effect location. I don't know if the lights can be eliminated from the AB effects ... but do know that if you are in a position to see them, you are probably just a little too close for comfort ...
Mike
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I'm determined to try and find a way of getting these danged lights out of the equation. In addition to the green right side light on stage 2 afterburn and the red left one on stage 3 I've also noticed there's a stupid "landing light" also active on stage 2 afterburn and visible from the front on a fly by mode (or when sitting on the runway at night.
I've managed to alter textures to fix the problem of the burner "disc" animation being too far forward in the tailpipe but I really want to nail this lights bug. Which files are aircraft lights controlled from? Or are they fixed to attach points in the models themselves and you have to somehow get it back in to GMax or 3dS to edit them out? Are there any editors for the MDL files? There used to be for earlier versions of FS.
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Well could be navigation lights :o as green is for the right/starboard side (wingtip) and red for the left/port side (wingtip) and there should be a white light on the tail (and I think also white lights on the wingtips that face aft).
Rob O.
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sorry mbmorgan... I missed your post before i posted... :-[
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I've managed to alter textures to fix the problem of the burner "disc" animation being too far forward in the plenum chamber
:o how??
Are there any editors for the MDL files? There used to be for earlier versions of FS.
i've been looking for a editor the last 2 months with no luck... found some crappy converters for fs2004 mdl files that didnt work, and nothing for fsx. if you find one, please let me know.
you know, i've been trying to fix the f-18 to make it perfect, but the "paper" afterburner effect, the green/red lights on it, the disc too far foward, the buggy brakes, the crashes when you try to load a flight plan into the mdf, all this shit just make me want to cry, and i gave up. the only thing i could fix is the rear landing gear position to look more realistic.
i wish i knew how to decompile MDL and DDS files. actually i wish i could even open the BMP textures on photoshop, but apparently i cant, they look blurry green&pink when i open.
its just frustrating, i would edit all this shit if i could even open.
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Interesting..
I had always assumed the green "light" bug in the afterburners was a graphics loading problem, similar to when you look at airports from distance and get a split second green block while the graphics load (seems to happen randomly if the FPS is less than 15, for me at least), but had no idea where the red was coming from until you mentioned the nav lights on the F/A-18, which are green and red.
They've got to be related.. a fix would be great.
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f-18 afterburner has 6 stages. the first one releases a weird white smoke that disappears when you change the AB stage, 2nd a green light centered on the right engine, 3rd a red light centered on the left engine.
and i didnt mention the "disc" or the "paper fire"...
im posting some screenshots to clarify this, in the mentioned order:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Thanks fael097, those pics illustrate almost all of the afterburner problems really well. The only additional one is the false landing light that comes on at afterburner stage 2 (if anyone wants to see it, sit on the runway at night with your lights off and run the throttle up to afterburner stage 2, and watch the runway suddenly light up with a false landing light).
I've attached a picture to show you how I have gone some way to address a few of the problems. But sadly I still can't get rid of the "false lights" at stages 2/3, and the "fuel dump" contrail at stage 1.
I have made a partial improvement to the afterburner disc by changing it's texture. This disc itself actually has two hidden purposes by being mounted too far aft - 1) because it is partially transparent it is actually used to create the effect of lighting up the plenum chamber more brightly as the burners are increased, and 2) it is needed to hide the front ends of the hot plasma exhaust textures which look hideous if you blank the disc texture out. So I've left the disc textures in place but edited them to have less structure and look more just like a "hot exhaust" rather than an afterburner ring.
I managed to move the burner ring animation forward by editing the three "fx_afterburnerfire.fx" files.
I have edited the hot plasma exhaust textures so that the front end of the textures don't extend outside the afterburners themselves (which they did at a couple of stages).
All the files are in the attached ZIP. The 3 "AfterBurnerFire" files should go in the main "Effects" folder. The 2 DDS files should go in the F18's own "Texture" folder. (REMEMBER to make copies of your original files before you replace them)
By the way, fael097, try out a utility called DXTBmp to help export those DDS and BMP texture files to your preferred graphics editor. I hope this helps you.
I hope these small changes make the F18 burners a little more realistic and are to your liking, people. One day maybe someone will find a way to edit out these horrible lights and fuel contrails, and allow us to complete the fixes. Until then - Happy Flying.
PLEASE NOTE - THIS FIX HAS BEEN SUPERCEDED BY VERSION 2, WHICH IS POSTED FURTHER DOWN THIS THREAD. VERSION 2 SINCE IS SIGNIFICANTLY SUPERIOR AT ELIMINATING THE NAV LIGHTS IN THE TAILPIPES. - Voodoo
[attachment deleted by admin]
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WOW crosherg!
I downloaded and installed your new afterburner effects, and they are much better than the defaults!
I love how you can actually see the engine internals through the fire now. Way more realistic.
Awesome work!
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Thanks Vortex, glad you enjoyed the changes. Not perfect yet, but a little bit in the right direction I think.
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I've posted an improved "Version 2" that is a significant improvement on my first version of afterburner fixes for the F18 earlier in this thread. I think an MDL editor for FSX would be needed to allow editing of the model attachpoints and completely eliminate all the bugs, but since that doesn't seem to exist at this time, version 2 of my fix that I present here for your flying pleasure, makes almost all of the bugs more or less unnoticeable. I won't be doing any further work on this so...Share and enjoy!
All the instructions are in the Readme.txt file in the zip.
If you want to get rid of the poor looking "smoky afterburner trail", simply rename the file "fx_fueldump.fx" found in C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Effects to something like "fx_fueldump.fx_old".
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Voodoo - I installed your new textures but I definitely don't get that nice look in your picture. This is what I get (Vista x64 SP1 latest nvidia drivers)
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r43/ryanbatc/newfa81b.jpg)
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Hi Ry.
I think...it might be you have not placed the fa18_ab.bmp file in the right place. Could you check the following instruction and let me know if that fixes it?
fa18_ab.bmp
Put this in the main Effects Texture folder:
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Effects\texture
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Yep it's in there.... BTW, the original night effect is still there, not sure if your modified files are supposed to change the night effect too.
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Hmmm....this problem has me slightly foxed.
I am not familiar with 64-bit Vista and whether the issue could be connected to that. Also, are you running with DX10? (I have only tested the effect on XP SP3 and with DX9). Do you have any problems with any other effects at all, or does everything else in FSX work AOK on your rig?
If you are sure that all the files connected with the effect are installed correctly, could you do me a favour and show me some more screenshots of the problem so I can try and figure out exatcly what bits of the effect are not running properly? Could you include both a daytime and a nighttime view of the afterburners, and also side-on views of the burners, and perhaps at two different A/B settings:- stage 2 afterburner, and full stage 6 afterburner? And I'll see if this gives me any more clues.
BTW when you asked about the "night" effect, I presume you meant the spurious landing light that comes on at Stage 2 afterburner? My fixes couldn't correct that bug. That landing light is built-in to the danged model and I couldn't find any way of editing it out! :(
A call to others - is there anyone else out there experiencing the same problem as Ryanbatcund?
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A call to others - is there anyone else out there experiencing the same problem as Ryanbatcund?
Nope, at least I haven't noticed it (if it happens).
I've used it on Windows Vista SP1 32 and 64 bit and Windows 7 Beta 1 64 bit.
Edit: Here's a screenshot from Windows 7 64 bit. Is that right?
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Yes, that's exactly the correct appearance. Thanks for that info Orion...I think that probably eliminates the OS as the problem. Cheers.
@ryanbatcund,
Can I ask, did you by any chance try to edit the fa18_ab.bmp file at any time, using an editor like Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro, or suchlike? The file is not a regular Windows bitmap. It's an Extended 16-bit 565 format bitmap, so one potential cause of the problem you seem to be having is if the file was opened for editing and then saved in the wrong bitmap format.
Does that sound likely?
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I've posted an improved "Version 2" that is a significant improvement on my first version of afterburner fixes for the F18 earlier in this thread. I think an MDL editor for FSX would be needed to allow editing of the model attachpoints and completely eliminate all the bugs, but since that doesn't seem to exist at this time, version 2 of my fix that I present here for your flying pleasure, makes almost all of the bugs more or less unnoticeable. I won't be doing any further work on this so...Share and enjoy!
All the instructions are in the Readme.txt file in the zip.
If you want to get rid of the poor looking "smoky afterburner trail", simply rename the file "fx_fueldump.fx" found in C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Effects to something like "fx_fueldump.fx_old".
The way I edited MDL's into FSX was use a XToMDL converter. I made the model in 3ds max, saved it as a .X extension, and then converted that into a .mdl for FSX.
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Can you edit mdls like that razgriz?
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Can you edit mdls like that razgriz?
No, because it is a finished model and I cannot transform MDL into X.
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I have installed this but now I get this werid problem. you can see the effect throguh different parts of the aircraft. Is there any way to fix this?
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I've experienced what looks like this sort of problem before with FSX effects that are attached to an aircraft. Depending on where your geographical location is and also depending what altitude you are flying at, attached effects (if they are offset from their attachpoints in the model in a .fx file, and also ones defined simply in the aircraft.cfg file) can "drift" from their point of origin. You can see the problem with aircraft lights as well (and also smoke effects attached to the LIGHTS section of the aircraft.cfg file). Sometimes the effect looks ok on the ground but drifts away quite badly at altitude. Aircraft lights can sometimes be quite "off-centred" from their intended position on the model even while it's sitting on the tarmac.
Also, if you try to edit the .fx files in order to relocate the afterburner effect further in or out of the jetpipe, you'll definitely cause the problem you are seeing!
I've also seen this issue associated with "draw order" problems. Sometimes an effect can appear behind parts of the physical model and sometimes not...depending on viewing angle. Although I have to say when I was testing this effect I never encounterd this problem.
Lastly...this effect was created for FSX not FS9. It might work in FS9 but the coordinates system is different (the X and Y axes are swapped over I think) and can make attached effects appear off-centred like this unless you edit their coords. I assume though you are using FSX?
Does any of this help, Wingmate?
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I've recently reinstalled everything and am getting this odd glitch. The effect seems to be larger than the engine nozzle.
See the screenshots below:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/2nknkev.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/lweuw.jpg)
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Sorry, Orion. I'm afraid I've no idea why the effect appears overly large for you following your reinstall. I've tried re-downloading the effect myself and overwriting my own files to see if I can re-create the problem, but to no avail.
Other than suggest you try installing the effect again, I'm out of ideas. Sorry.
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:(
I'll try reinstalling the effects again, but last time I tried nothing happened. Thanks anyways :-\.
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Sorry to double post, but 2 things:
1. Reinstalling the effect didn't work :(
2. The problems gets even worse in DX10 :( (the glow in the left afterburner is intermittent).
I really don't want to reinstall again :'(...
See attached screenshot.
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Hi Orion,
If you wish, I'll try to give you some instructions on how to tweak the afterburner effects file to let you adjust the size of the effect yourself?
If I could, I'd amend the file and give you a copy of it, but I am not experiencing the problem and can't see how much to adjust the parameters by, but if you're comfortable editing .fx files then it may give you a solution.
(P.S. I can't say how well the effect will work under under DX10. I have only tested this in FSX Acceleration (SP2), Windows XP (SP3) and DX9 on an Nvidia 8600 GTS card.)
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That would be great, thanks :).
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Ok Orion, here's some settings for you to try and see if it provides a workaround for the problem you're having.
Go to your Effects folder and edit the following 3 files:
fx_AfterBurnerFire1.fx
fx_AfterBurnerFire2.fx
fx_AfterBurnerFire3.fx
In fx_afterburnerfire1.fx got to the [Particle.3] section and replace the old X and Y Scale settings with some new settings, thus:
//X Scale=0.58, 0.58
//Y Scale=0.58, 0.58
X Scale=0.48, 0.48
Y Scale=0.48, 0.48
In fx_afterburnerfire2.fx go to the same [Particle.3] section and try the following replacements:
//X Scale=0.66, 0.66
//Y Scale=0.66, 0.66
X Scale=0.56, 0.56
Y Scale=0.56, 0.56
And finally in fx_afterburnerfire3.fx go to the same section and try:
//X Scale=0.74, 0.74
//Y Scale=0.74, 0.74
X Scale=0.64, 0.64
Y Scale=0.64, 0.64
These reduced scale parameters are just a starting point for you. You'll have to adjust them and then restart FSX each time to check how they look.
Basically, afterburnerfire1 is the effect at stages 1-2 of the afterburner throttle, afterburnerfire2 is on at stages 3-4, and afterburnerfire3 is stages 5-6. Hence you see that the scale of the effect gets slightly larger in each file as the exhaust aperture increases in size.
I hope this helps.
All the best,
Voodoo
Also, @Wingmate,
I've seen the effect you were talking about earlier. It happens at different camera ranges in the sim, where the effect can suddenly shift in position (temporarily only, I've found) to appear out of alignment with the aircraft (e.g. the burner flames appear outside the tailpipe). I've seen this now with effects on other models too. I've put it down to a bug with the way FSX handles camera viewpoints as distances change. Maybe its down to the way it handles the switch over to a different mipmap, maybe not, but whatever it is I don't see any way round that problem.
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It's better, but it still shows a slight ring around the nozzle (see screenshots below). Should I further reduce those values or would that be from some other part? Eh, I'll just try reducing those further and see how it goes.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2nb7m2r.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2hehojk.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2vjomd5.jpg)
Also, is the effect supposed to be visible through the small spaces in the nozzle (see screenshots below)?
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2cntwkj.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/15f2dc4.jpg)
One last thing: do you notice any other things that are messed up? I was looking at the other screenshots of the effect and it looks slightly different like the effect is further in the nozzle or something.
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Hi Orion,
You're on the right track. Just reduce the same values slightly again, perhaps by about 0.5 on each.
The gaps in the tailpipe when viewed from the "outside" are a texturing bug in the model. The modeller hasn't textured both sides of the inner part of the jet pipe. Typically that makes parts of a model transparent when viewed from the untextured side. It's a problem that can't be corrected by the end user, I'm afraid. I think the developer sorted it when they went on to develop the (payware) CaptainSim version.
You ask about other anomalies...I'm not seeing evidence of the inner burner ring effect that's further inside the tailpipe (it usually has a blueish tinge) but that may not be so much of a problem. Your pictures are actually looking quite good as it is. Just a tiny reduction more in those Scale values.
The effect may appear very slightly further inside the tailpipe because you're reducing the diameter of the effect but, from your pictures, it's not looking too noticeable.
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Sorry for taking a while to respond, but one thing: 0.5 or 0.05?
Also, when I said that normally the effect seems further in the nozzle, I was talking about the effect that's oversized for me, not the thing with the blueish tinge or whatever you mentioned.
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Hi Orion,
The changes in the values are going to have to be just trial and error until you find something that fits (since we're really just treating the symptoms of a problem here rather than the cause of the problem) so I would try a reduction of 0.5 but if that's too much, reduce it by less, say try reducing it by 0.25 instead...just till it's right for you.
Don't worry about the other parts of the effect (i.e. the blueish tinged burner ring effects) if they're not causing you any problem.
Regards,
Voodoo
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Thanks, it seems okay now (it seems to be slightly off center, though), but it still bugs me that the problem occurred in the first place. I just hope next time I have to reinstall FSX it won't happen again :P.