FSDreamTeam forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: longbow on March 03, 2009, 08:08:56 am
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Hey guys, I love your sceneries I have Geneva and Zurich on the wish list. Hope I'll get them very soon. But I was wondering what the next european airport will be. I'd love to see Vienna airport. I know FS9 users already have this from FlyTampa, but I doubt the guys at FlyTampa will ever release it for FSX.Thanks.
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Next two products ( KLAS and K??? ) will be for the US. We still haven't decided what to do next. It might not even be an airport...
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Ok. But don't give up on making airports. Especially for Europe. ;) You guys are too good at it. Thanks.
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Next two products ( KLAX and K??? ) will be for the US. We still haven't decided what to do next. It might not even be an airport...
Do you mean KLAS or KLAX? ???
KLAX would be great!
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Do you mean KLAS or KLAX? ???
I think you already know what he means. ;)
There won't be a KLAX unless Cloud9 does it, and the designer of KLAX now works for FSDT, not Cloud9.
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If you guys are from Italy, I assume, why no Italian seneries??? Fiume!! Malpensa!! LIMJ!!!!!!!
I do truly hope the next Euro senery heads to Italy!!!!!!!!! MY ISD Projects are a reason keeping me from going FSX!! Italian airports are THAT important to me!!
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Hello,
I have the same opinion as newmanix.
We can use Malpensa more or less in FSX, but there is no chance to use Rome LIRF in FSX.
So please FSDT don't neglect your homeland. ;D
At the moment there is absolute no decent rendition of an italien airport in FSX. I think there will be many customer buying a good LIRF airport !
Bernhard
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We did a nice rendition of Florence airport ( one of the most popular touristic destination in Italy ) for Aerosoft, and it also has the whole city in 3d together with it, and very good fps on top of that. It's also an interesting airport, because the short runway combined with the surrounding terrain, makes for a challenging approach.
Well...JFK sold in a couple of *hours* more than Florence in a year, and Zurich and Geneva didn't fared much different.
That basically defines the issues about making italian airports.
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Next two products ( KLAX and K??? ) will be for the US. We still haven't decided what to do next. It might not even be an airport...
Uh...ok... Assuming you do mean KLAS instead of KLAX, then what happened to KDFW being next?? You even just recently announced that it would be the next one along with a second airport. Unless, of course, you mean that that second airport may come out before KDFW like you said before and you're keeping it a secret which one it might be. Clarification?
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Uh...ok... Assuming you do mean KLAS instead of KLAX
Of course, it's KLAS, the X is so close to the S on the keyboard...I've edited my post...
Unless, of course, you mean that that second airport may come out before KDFW like you said before and you're keeping it a secret which one it might be. Clarification?
Yes, being labeled as K???, it refers to that one, which is done in parallel to KLAS.
I still think KDFW will be released but that doesn't mean anything about its expected release date. We now have two set of people working at sceneries so, the "KLAS team" (that will make KDFW as well) might switch to a non-airport project and will start working at KDFW after that one is released, while the "K??? team" might start another airport after K???. Or, we might decide that the "KLAS team" might be able to work on both projects, that has to be seen.
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Well, that scrambled my brain trying to interpret that, haha, but I get it. Thanks for the reply.
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We did a nice rendition of Florence airport ( one of the most popular touristic destination in Italy ) for Aerosoft, and it also has the whole city in 3d together with it, and very good fps on top of that. It's also an interesting airport, because the short runway combined with the surrounding terrain, makes for a challenging approach.
Well...JFK sold in a couple of *hours* more than Florence in a year, and Zurich and Geneva didn't fared much different.
That basically defines the issues about making italian airports.
Virtuali,
of course I forget about Florence....my fault.
I really accept your business decision about neglecting italian airports. But my wish only goes to Rome. Aerosoft would call it a Mega-Airport, so is that airport really so uninteresting for the simmer-world, that only a small crowd of people would buy it?
You cannot compare Florence to Rome. And I cannot imagine, that Rome would be a smaller succes than Geneva.
US-Airports will surely better selling than italian airpots, but isn't the amount of making a KJFK is much much greater for an italien designer-group, than making a LIRF?
Cloud9's LIRF had a very hard opponent in ISD-Freeware in FS9. But ISD is death, so there will be no competitor in FSX and FSX is growing more and more.
So maybe you can think about that.
Bernhard
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You cannot compare Florence to Rome. And I cannot imagine, that Rome would be a smaller succes than Geneva.
Don't take it for granted, we did several italian sceneries in the past. The best selling one was, incidentally, Aviano, probably because it's not entirely italian, being a NATO a/b. However, still as a "best selling", it sold way below our recent products and our expectations for a commercially sustainable product.
US-Airports will surely better selling than italian airpots, but isn't the amount of making a KJFK is much much greater for an italien designer-group, than making a LIRF?
No, and that's precisely the point. Considering the effort of making a major airport like LIRF is about the same as KJFK, why should be makign something that has a 1/4th sales potential, at best ? Being closer to the place doesn't change anything, because we wouldn't be able to take the kind of pictures needed in any case, so we need to rely to existing documentation, and that quantity and quality of it is far greater for US airports and, incidentally, Swiss airports as well...
Cloud9's LIRF had a very hard opponent in ISD-Freeware in FS9
And guess who was the designer...
I'm assure you: he lost money on that specific project. We have already been there and done that, as they say...
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I think folks, you should stick with US airports since it's gold mine now. Aerosoft and UK2000 did a pretty good job on Europe covering this area for both FS2004 and FSX with excellent products and you have nothing to fish in this lake for next 2-3 years - that's the fact of life. North America was totally ignored in last 3 years. Yes, FlyTampa is perfect, but it's getting old with each day. Imaginesim is too far from modern standards even though I still use most of their sceneries.
That leave us with only TWO North American airports that were in modern good quality - FSDT KJFK and FSDT KORD. ::)
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No, and that's precisely the point. Considering the effort of making a major airport like LIRF is about the same as KJFK, why should be makign something that has a 1/4th sales potential, at best ? Being closer to the place doesn't change anything, because we wouldn't be able to take the kind of pictures needed in any case, so we need to rely to existing documentation, and that quantity and quality of it is far greater for US airports and, incidentally, Swiss airports as well...
I didn't knew, that your products rely only on existing documents. Many designers are saying, one can only make an airport, if one can visit it from all sides and make fotos from it.
So I thought it must be easier to visit Rome and get a permission for making fotos than in New York.
I think folks, you should stick with US airports since it's gold mine now. Aerosoft and UK2000 did a pretty good job on Europe covering this area for both FS2004 and FSX with excellent products and you have nothing to fish in this lake for next 2-3 years - that's the fact of life. North America was totally ignored in last 3 years. Yes, FlyTampa is perfect, but it's getting old with each day. Imaginesim is too far from modern standards even though I still use most of their sceneries.
That is something I don't understand. FS is an american product, but by far the best addon-designers come from outside the states? Even FlyTampa is half-german. Maybe americans don't want to do something, that makes not so much money? Or do americans have so much fun with FS-stock-airports?
So I can really understand Umberto, saying that there is a much bigger market in the States than in Europe.
Bernhard (still hoping that someone else will make an up-to-date-version of LIRF for FSX)
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That leave us with only TWO North American airports that were in modern good quality - FSDT KJFK and FSDT KORD. ::)
You neglect to mention Flightsceneries KPDX and KPVD, but your point still stands. I do think however with the complete lack of any quality WSSS or YSSY sceneries, those could potentially sell equally as well as the American sites.
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U.S. airports have plenty of documentation and a high sales potential, in addition to being neglected by most developers. So it's a win-win situation for Fsdt. People will be happy to buy neglected American airports and there should be plenty of profits.
I don't think there's any potential in Australia -- Orbx/FTX dominates there. Ditto Germany -- Aerosoft and the uk -- uk2000. If only Asia had better documentation then we might see more coverage there...
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I don't think there's any potential in Australia -- Orbx/FTX dominates there. Ditto Germany -- Aerosoft and the uk -- uk2000. If only Asia had better documentation then we might see more coverage there...
Did they produce a YSSY scenery that I missed that is any good? Are they producing sceneries compatible with FS9? I think YSSY would have a huge market despite what another company is producing for other areas.
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Did they produce a YSSY scenery that I missed that is any good? Are they producing sceneries compatible with FS9? I think YSSY would have a huge market despite what another company is producing for other areas.
I don't think orbx yssy will be out for a long time. Either way it'll be fsx-only. For fs9 there's the freeware VOZ and payware CLS, both are so-so IMO.
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We did a nice rendition of Florence airport ( one of the most popular touristic destination in Italy ) for Aerosoft, and it also has the whole city in 3d together with it, and very good fps on top of that. It's also an interesting airport, because the short runway combined with the surrounding terrain, makes for a challenging approach.
Well...JFK sold in a couple of *hours* more than Florence in a year, and Zurich and Geneva didn't fared much different.
That basically defines the issues about making italian airports.
I understand this position. I really do. However, when you go to work on your next European senery what airport could you possibly do that everyone would want outside of Italy? Simwings are working on new Mega Airport Spain seneries. Aerosoft has Germany COVERED from head to toe. Austria is covered with both high quality pay and freeware seneries. France is covered by Simwings and VFR France. The UK is covered by UK2000. Poland is being covered with a awesome new payware developer. Holland is being covered by Aerosoft with new AMS and Rotterdam. Croatia is covered quite well indeed. Portugal has it's 2 best ariports covered by Aerosoft. We have Budapest from Aerosoft which is the best airport in Hungary. Brussles and Stockholm well covered. Please don't tell me you are going to out do Dream Factory studio again and redux Stockholm. The one they did is JUST FINE! Greece is covered with a helliva lof of freeware seneries that are great! C9 already did Bergen which is great!
That leaves the MAJOR following airports you really need to consider outside of Italy: Copenhagen, Praha Ruzyne, Helsinki, Goteborg, Dublin, Nice, aww screw it others can add to the list. My Point is Italy is F'in HUGE!!! And we have ONE freakin payware quality senery in the whole damn country!!!!!! This is rediclous, Besides the airports I listed in Europe, I think Italy indeed!! Should be your next choice and it should be a Major airport. Does anyone disagree with me here. Please keep up with US seneries!! Please!!! But when you start work on the next Europe senery, please consider this post. Italy is a wonderful county! I have been many times! My favoriate food is there! Why can't the seneries be great too?????
Cheers!!
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That is something I don't understand. FS is an american product, but by far the best addon-designers come from outside the states? Even FlyTampa is half-german.
If you look some years back, it was even more euro-centric than it is now. At least, today we have some devs coming from the US or other parts of the world, like Brazil and Australia. But when the first FS commercial product started to appear, about 1993/94 in the FS 4 era ( Yes, we were there, working with the "original" LAGO, the good one, before it was sold by their owners ), there were no developers outside Europe.
So I can really understand Umberto, saying that there is a much bigger market in the States than in Europe.
It's not so simple. It's not that there's a "much" bigger market in the States. There is, instead, a more open market to exploit, because there's less competition and we see more potential for growth there.
And, the US is a much more streamlined market: there's only one language, there's more uniformity between users spending habits, there are less problems buying online, almost everybody has a Credit Card, and it's easier to reach users and let them know about our products, because they tend to be concentrated on a few major websites, instead of the thousands sites (all in different languages of course), we have in Europe.
Europe IS complex. Each country is different, different languages are a barrier to make advertising and to support users, and even the very use of the PC as a gaming platform is not the same across Europe, because there's a big difference between, for example, Germany (and the other german-speaking countries), were the PC is still quite strong, and other countries like Italy or Spain, were the PC is relatively strong but plagued with extreme piracy rates, and consoles are keep taking over market share away from the PC every year.
That's why you see most of the flight sim developement revolving around european developers and, specifically, lots of products appealing to german-speaking countries. Zurich, by the way, is still our best selling scenery so far, for example. But we don't see much space for growth there, because the major airports in that area are well covered by Aerosoft so, it wouldn't make much sense going against them, also considering we do business with them at several levels.
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I, personally hope that you could make a scandinaian airport again. ENGM and EKCH comes to mind as they are some very neglected airports for both FS9 and FSX.
seeing as you and/or Cloud9 made a fantastic representation of ENBR a few years back i have no doubt that you could make another great scandinavian airport :)
Anyway, whatever airport you choose to make i'm sure it's going to be great and i'll most likely get it as long as it's made for FS9