FSDreamTeam forum
Products Support => Los Angeles support FSX/P3D => Topic started by: Jetblue291 on July 07, 2015, 02:46:41 pm
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Hi guys long time user of your scenery and love it. I've run into a small issue here at lax. Let me add I'm using ultimate traffic 2 with powerpack for my ai. The other day I was spotting at lax to check some ai repaints and noticed that, ai is taxing to the hold short point of the runway perfect. Now if the ai gets takeoff clearance from the hold short line they line up and roll off as they should. Other scenario is the get a clearance onto runway and hold for departing traffic, whom got there take off clearance from hold line, and then nothing. So if the ai gets cleared into position and hold they never get takeoff clearance and sit there and time out,thisonly happens when they get a position and hold instruction. Again takeoff clearance from the hold short line they takeoff as they should, this happens with all aircraft and airlines I saw at the time which was about 5 types 4 airlines, any thoughts.
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Already discussed and answered here:
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,12102.msg92142.html#msg92142
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OK that answers nothing at all. That's the support I'm going to get after spending hundreds of dollars on your sceneries pointed to a thread that is not something that I am experiencing? I want to know how to fix the problem of ai getting no t\o clearance after position and hold. I know its easier just to post a link and say its been discussed but that's not the same exact situation and even if it applied to ai as well there was no solution there!
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OK that answers nothing at all.
Yes, it does.
That's the support I'm going to get after spending hundreds of dollars on your sceneries pointed to a thread that is not something that I am experiencing?
You have been referred to the correct thread. Read it more carefully: the poster discussed TWO issue. The reply you wanted was in the 2nd one, I'll highlight it for you:
This was your request:
I want to know how to fix the problem of ai getting no t\o clearance after position and hold.
This is what was discussed in the other thread:
The other thing is I'm ok to position and hold but never cleared to take off, As soon as I get airborne, tower tells me I'm not cleared for take off.
As you can see, it's exactly the same issue. And yes, the default ATC has the same problem, regardless if the airplane involved is an AI airplane or your own airplane.
You are asking how to "fix" this. If you read my reply, you would understood is just how FSX ATC works and, one way or the other, we would have to compromise the scenery accuracy (the visual scenery won't match the AFCAD anymore if we did, so it will still look "wrong"), if we tried to fix this by moving the hold zone in a different (not real) place.
I'll copy the fully reply again here:
That might due to the issue of hold short zones being too far from the runway. Of course, we placed it in the correct place, but that doesn't mean the correct place is handed correctly by FSX. But if we placed it in the "wrong" place, in order to appease FSX, the logical position of the hold short zone won't match the visual position of the (custom) textures which are of course in the correct place, so people would immediately complain that the hold short is wrong, either because ATC won't clear them in the proper place, or because AI would hold short in the wrong position. And if we moved the visual hold short zones in the "wrong" place, to make the FSX ATC happy, people will rightly complain the scenery is not accurate to real world...
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OK well I guess I understand. I think it's foolish to remove functionality. Is there anyway for me to change this, after all this is a simulator and a hold short position being off by a few feet compared to a real photo should be acceptable and even expected considering its not real. I wish there was a decent compromise, because they will complain about a hold short being a little off but they are OK with ai timing out on the runway that's even more unrealistic!! Well thanks anyway for the reply.
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OK well I guess I understand. I think it's foolish to remove functionality.
Would you rather have a scenery with hold short zones ( the visual textures ) in the wrong position, just to make the FSX ATC happy ? Lots of people don't even use the FSX ATC, for example those flying online, and it wouldn't be right to intentionally move stuff around from their real world position, when everything else is very accurate.
Is there anyway for me to change this, after all this is a simulator and a hold short position being off by a few feet compared to a real photo should be acceptable and even expected considering its not real. I wish there was a decent compromise, because they will complain about a hold short being a little off but they are OK with ai timing out on the runway that's even more unrealistic!!
You cannot change the visual part, but you can move the hold short zones in the AFCAD and place them closer to the runway, using any of the AFCAD editing utilities, like ADE.
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Hello, so I'm new to the forum, and to the FSDreamteam KLAX v2 scenery. Love the scenery but also having the same issue with AI Traffic. I tried moving the hold short nodes closer to the start point using ADE as recommended which did not fix the problem. Is there another fix, update, or modification that hasn't been previously mentioned or that I didn't find in my search on this forum? Thanks in advance.
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I tried moving the hold short nodes closer to the start point using ADE as recommended which did not fix the problem.
If your AI are stuck close to the hold short zones, the only way to fix this is to move them closer to the runway.
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They're actually not stuck in the hold short zones, they line up on the runway without an issue, but then the tower doesn't give take-off clearance and they just sit there until they time out. The weirdest thing is it doesn't usually happen to the first a/c to get to the active runway, which usually line-up and take-off like normal. But after the first takeoff after loading the scenery, every other a/c just lines up and waits. It doesn't matter whether it's a native FSX model like FAIB or a FS9 model from AIG, TFS, AIA etc. It also happens to user aircraft, I tried to takeoff from the active after letting the first AI go before me, they got clearance and took-off from 7L like normal, but when I followed, the ATC window didn't even give the "Request Take-Off Clearance" as an option to select. Could it be something about the ATC settings?
The hold short nodes are almost on-top of the start point of the runway at this point so not sure what else I can do there.
I run a Cyberpower Laptop w/ Windows 8
FSX: Steam Edition
and I don't have many sceneries or addons besides EditVoicepack, FSDT KLAX v2, Aerosoft Mega-Hub Heathrow (which incidentally does not have the same AI traffic issues), and SuperTrafficBoard.
If there's anything I can try that you think could get this issue resolved please let me know.
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Did anyone actually find a resolution to this? The problem here is that aircraft (including user aircraft when moved to any position on the runway), when told to Position and hold / line up and wait, are never cleared for takeoff - ai just gives up and disappears after some time. The aircraft line up on the runway fine, but never takeoff. It's as if atc never detects the aircraft is properly lined up on the runway and ready to go. This makes scenarios like the one pictured unplayable (and this is a short line).
http://i.imgur.com/WtrjAGd.jpg
Looking through the afcad I don't see any glaring root cause to this, though not sure what I'm looking for. This does not seem to be an issue with the hold short zones as aircraft stop and proceed past the line just fine.
AFCAD 25R:
http://i.imgur.com/uc2pLsQ.png
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Looking through the afcad I don't see any glaring root cause to this, though not sure what I'm looking for. This does not seem to be an issue with the hold short zones as aircraft stop and proceed past the line just fine.
Of course you cannot find anything wrong in the AFCAD, since there's nothing wrong with it...the only thing I can think of, is you have a too high traffic density setting, and the default FSX ATC code cannot cope with all of them so, the first thing to try, would be lowering the traffic density a bit.
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I seem to have this issue too. What's strange about this issue is the first AI that shows up taxi's to position, gets clearance and leaves. The second taxi's to position, lines up and hangs there until it times out. What happens next is interesting. After that plane times out and is deleted, there can be 3 or 4 in queue. They will all seem to line up and take off without issue. It always seems to be that second plane in the line that appears to get hung up for some reason.
Now from what I read is has something to do with having the hold short too far from the runway. So i figured sure - in the spirit of keeping the ai flowing, ill edit the afcad and move the hold short position and deal with them not stopping at the right place(I use ProATC-x so for me I can stop in the apropriate place without issue). So I move the hold short position just next to the runway and still no change. What's weird is this is the only scenery the performs this way. I think I pretty much purchased every scenery you guys make and they are all top notch. Any other ideas why this may be happening? I'm running P3D v3 - I can't remember if it happened in 2.5 although I can't imagine it behaving any differently.
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Same with my sim as well. Doesn't happen at any other fsdream team airports.
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Umberto I have delved into my prepar3d install from April 2014 and used the old Afcad from there and Planes are taking off as normal instead of getting stuck.
Whats going on here?
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Hello folks..I finally purchased KLAX FSDT (late bloomer thing) and love the scenery...but like the previous posts that "deadgum" 2nd aircraft lines upon the runway...and is STUCK! I am going to guess...no formula for a fix has been made....when i first flew out of LAX on a TWA 747 (retro junky here) and a Southwest 737 lined up..on 24L after a 707 departed before it... I was patiently waiting for ATC to give clearance....all SILENT "Ugghh, not a word to let Southwest depart..poor guy just vanished off face of earth//...((ATC:))"TWA flight 821 you are cleared for take off" ((ME:)) What the hey?//// enough with the dialog....let me know via this post...if a solution has been found...
Regards to all,
Chris
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Looking at the default afcad it seems that the runways have been widened just at the exits and entry points to accept the hold short node distance. Thinking that this wasn't quite the best fix, I widened all of the runways to 260 feet (just an arbitrary number as it doesn't show in the sim anyways) and also added a missing hold short node at the end of 06R. I then watched a few dozen AI depart without fail. As mentioned dozens of times before on these forums, I used ADE to edit the KLAX_AP.BGL. Pretty easy.
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Thanks Dave....you saved me! did your work around posted it in AVSIM and all seemed to work just fine!!!! Thank you! again!
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Umberto do you actually plan on fixing this issue or are you just going to ignore us?
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I don't think widening the runway is a good idea. It cause problems under P3D, which always display the default runway, so it goes in conflict with the custom runway texture.
In fact, the whole issue happened because we LISTENED to users complaint about having the default runway showing up in P3D, in other airports too:
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,9527.msg88693.html#msg88693
So, to fix this, we had to set the runway width to 0.0, causing AIs being stuck so, we are trying to discuss with LM for a solution that would work both in P3D and FSX, without having to distribute two separate AFCADs, which is quite confusing, both for us and for users.
But of course, if you don't use P3D, you are free to apply the suggested modification.
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"What's strange about this issue is the first AI that shows up taxi's to position, gets clearance and leaves. The second taxi's to position, lines up and hangs there until it times out. What happens next is interesting. After that plane times out and is deleted, there can be 3 or 4 in queue. They will all seem to line up and take off without issue. It always seems to be that second plane in the line that appears to get hung up for some reason."
Just downloaded the KLAX scenery and absolutely love it btw, but I've also notice this problem is FSX....I've never had this problem with any of the other fsdreamteam sceneries...Has anyone been able to fix the problem and if you have please share....Thanks in advance..
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Just downloaded the KLAX scenery and absolutely love it btw, but I've also notice this problem is FSX....
Please re-read my reply: I never said the problem won't happen in FSX. I said that, in order to be compatible with P3D too, we had to apply a solution that will cause this problem. Of course, if you use FSX, you can apply the suggested fix yourself (which is a 1 minute job). If you used P3D, instead, you CANNOT use that fix, because it will result in the default runway showing up.
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Exactly the same thing happens at DFW.
I'm using old Afcads from 2014 to sort it out. Thank God I kept my 2.0 installation on my other hard drive.