FSDreamTeam forum
Products Support => GSX Support FSX/P3D => Topic started by: DanBonenfant on September 23, 2018, 05:32:20 pm
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Sorry if this has been posted before...
Departing KABQ temp is +16c but GSX prompts for de-icing and won't allow engine start until pushback completes. No big deal, but not correct behavior.
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I'm sorry but, I've checked the code, and it's not possible to get a deicer prompt if the OAT is higher than 7°C. So, the only possible reason for this, is that something else has set the temperature wrong.
We simply read the metar from the sim, using the standard Simconnect call.
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Sorry if this has been posted before...
Departing KABQ temp is +16c but GSX prompts for de-icing and won't allow engine start until pushback completes. No big deal, but not correct behavior.
By chance, which aircraft do you use when you have the de-icing prompt?
Regards,
EDIT:It seems that I also have prompt de-icing with temperatures above 7°C. I thought it was maybe a problem related to a type of aircraft, in this case perhaps the AeroSoft A320 because it has a small problem with the ground temperature (identified) in the MCDU. This is a difference of (+-)-5°C compared to the temperature given by Active Sky. But when I read Peter-Andrew's post, I see that he uses the PMDG B737-NG, so...
Thank you and Regards,
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Same problem for me departing from KJAC OAT 14°C and from KBZN OAT 16°C and deicing condition systematically detected. The OAT is from the Metar showing up in ASP4 and transfered to P3D4.My plane is pmdg B737-NG. Any possibilities from one way or another, for confusion between °F and °C?
All the best
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Any possibilities from one way or another, for confusion between °F and °C?
Not possible, the simulator reports weather using the standard Metar format, which is always expressed in °C, regardless if the simulator is configured to be using US or International settings. I tried it, of course.
As I've said, I double-checked the code and, it's really impossible for GSX to report icing conditions if the temperature reported by the standard Simconnect weather report it's at least 8 °C so, the only possible explanation is that, for some reason, Simconnect DID report a temperature less than 8 °C.
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...And if, for some reasons, there was a confusion between temperature and dewpoint? I got the message again at KSLC Temperature 09°C Dewpoint -02°C.
Thank you and Regards,
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...And if, for some reasons, there was a confusion between temperature and dewpoint? I got the message again at KSLC Temperature 09°C Dewpoint -02°C.
The code will just exit from the whole routine, whenever the temperature is 8 °C or more.
Maybe there was an error in the metar report, like an illegal metar string, in that case GSX might not update the deicing status since the last time it got the correct readout.
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Had the same thing happen to me last night. At the gate at KDEN, temperature was around 16C. This was using QW 787-9 (latest version), AS for P3D4, and Flightbeam KDEN.
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I get this more when departing high altitude airports
I use activesky
The last departure from ABQ I had in the PMDG 737 I was asked if i wanted to de-ice
I checked the following to see if there was an issue with either p3d or activesky
KABQ - outside temp 18C, temp showing on aircraft screen, 18C, p3d weather settings showed 18C
I couldnt find anything that should trigger the de-icing request but i see im not alone.
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Here's Telluride with default 737 p3dv4 latest v of activesky
i checked the metar KTEX 252215Z AUTO 28010G17KT 240V300 10SM CLR 17/M12 A3035 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT S
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w1t4wwgrvf3lefr/icing.JPG?dl=0
I also checked in p3d the temp was set to 17C and I was offered de-icing
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Here's Telluride with default 737 p3dv4 latest v of activesky
i checked the metar KTEX 252215Z AUTO 28010G17KT 240V300 10SM CLR 17/M12 A3035 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT S
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w1t4wwgrvf3lefr/icing.JPG?dl=0
I also checked in p3d the temp was set to 17C and I was offered de-icing
Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, Telluride, Denver, Albuquerque, Salt Lake City...seems like a trend. I'll have to try it at a low altitude airport and see what I get.
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Umberto is on the board of a virtual de-icing fluid company ! Ah go oooon will you not have a little de-icing :)
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I found what might be the issue:
if the metar string is MALFORMED (which is not of course depending by GSX), meaning there's an illegal/non-standard metar command in it, GSX will report possible icing condition.
This is not really a bug. In fact, we thought about it and, while you can always decide to *not* use deicing if prompted, there's no way to force-call it if you really want it so, in order to prevent the loss of deicing in case there was an error reading the metar, we decided it was better to be safe than sorry, and allow deicing anyway.
I guess this might be confusing, and could be seen as a GSX bug but, in fact, the real cause is that for some reason, the metar string reported by Simconnect was invalid, so we decided to err on the side of safety, and allow deicing in that case.
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I found what might be the issue:
if the metar string is MALFORMED (which is not of course depending by GSX), meaning there's an illegal/non-standard metar command in it, GSX will report possible icing condition.
This is not really a bug. In fact, we thought about it and, while you can always decide to *not* use deicing if prompted, there's no way to force-call it if you really want it so, in order to prevent the loss of deicing in case there was an error reading the metar, we decided it was better to be safe than sorry, and allow deicing anyway.
I guess this might be confusing, and could be seen as a GSX bug but, in fact, the real cause is that for some reason, the metar string reported by Simconnect was invalid, so we decided to err on the side of safety, and allow deicing in that case.
Curious, because the Activ Sky weather report is read correctly in P3D and I guess FSX!? So?...but anyway, please, you may be able to make Gsx not send the message about not to start the engines when the user declines the de-icing offer...
Thanks and Regards,
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I dont understand about the METAR string. You said GSX just read the temp from simconnect . Also the metar string i used above was not from simconnect it was from https://aviationweather.gov/adds/metars/index?submit=1&station_ids=KTEX&chk_metars=on&hoursStr=1&std_trans=translated&chk_tafs=on
Where does GSX read the METAR string from ? The aircraft, p3d or the weahter engine ?
Also what is malformed about it ?
Heres the current metar from KTEX from active sky : KTEX 271015Z AUTO 13005KT 10SM CLR 05/M13 A3040 RMK AO2
And the real world metar : KTEX 271015Z AUTO 13005KT 10SM CLR 05/M13 A3040 RMK AO2
They are both valid ive been reading metars in real life for a long time.
I just did a test with no weather, temp at 20C and no weather engine running and get the same issue. ie no METAR has been anywhere near p3d.
We would appreciate it if you can fix this or tell us what the issue is with p3d or activesky so we can talk to them about it..
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GSX reads the metar from Simconnect itself, it cannot read "just" the temperature, it must read the metar, because is the only way to read the Dew point.
This Simconnect metar, doesn't have anything to do with an external metar you might have seen reported either online or from a weather engine. It's an internal metar report, which is created by the simulator, so any addon needing to read weather, will get in in a metar format.
So, looking again at the code (and I think we made it intentionally), if the metar can't be read, either because it's not working, sometimes Simconnect gets stuck and doesn't report metar in time, or because the string is illegal/malformed/nonstandard, the fallback was to ALLOW deicing anyway.
That's for the reason I already explained: you CAN refuse a deicer if icing conditions has bee mistakely detected (not because GSX's fault, but because it got a bad Metar from the sim), but you cannot force-call it if no icing conditions to begin with.
So, assume an airplane like the FS Labs, were icing can be DANGEROUS on the flight and, for any reason the metar couldn't be read, what GSX should do then ? Not allowing icing, because it cannot be *sure* of the temperature/dewpoint, or allowing it anyway, since you can always refuse the service ?
I ASSUMED this was the safest choice but, of course, if it's mistakenly identified as a GSX "bug", maybe it's best to change the code, and block deicing in case of a bad metar report.
The "fix" (which is a downgrade IMHO), is already online in the current Live Update so, you can try it now.
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I did some more testing with this issue, default aircraft and not using activesky. Not sure where gsx is picking the temp up from but in 6 of the higher altitude airports I tested > 15-20C it offered icing.
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Not sure where gsx is picking the temp
Have you read my previous explanation ? It just reads the metar as provided by Simconnect. And, please, read again my last post, and read again the part that said I changed this in the current Live Udpate, to not allow deicing is the metar report was invalid or missing.
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Tried a normal altitude airport tonight that was actually -1C with icing reported and snow falling
asked for pushback
no de-icing offered
so there we are - de-icing offered at airports that are too hot and no de-icing offered when it's -1C
tried 3 different aircraft at CYHY (default 737/pmdg 737/747) .... all the same
tried setting weather manually to show correct temp for icing and activesky
I cant get gsx to offer icing
can you not just ask simconnect for the external temp and dew point ? Let me pass this thread onto LM for comment
Ive asked someone to have a look at this
thanks
just finished some testing ... if I use activesky which selects its own weather theme .... gsx will not offer de-icing when OAT < 4C
If i quit activesky and set the local temp in p3d manually GSX works
Not sure what the issue with malformed metars are since my aircraft and 2 other add ons all read the outside temp ok from simconnect. Can you look at this please I know a lot of us use activesky.
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so there we are - de-icing offered at airports that are too hot and no de-icing offered when it's -1C
No.
The "de-icing offered at airports that are too hot" shouldn't happen here because, in order to not have users mislead into thinking GSX was crazy, the current update now has changed the previous behavior, which was to *allow* deicing is the metar received from Simconnect was missing or invalid. Now, there's no deicing allowed in that case.
Which of course, hasn't fixed much (as I expected), because if an invalid metar is sent while the temperature is low, no deicing is allowed now.
THAT'S why I said the previous behavior was better, since you could always refuse deicing, but there's no way to force it.
just finished some testing ... if I use activesky which selects its own weather theme .... gsx will not offer de-icing when OAT < 4C If i quit activesky and set the local temp in p3d manually GSX works
So, the real issue is, how to deal with 3rd party products that are probably sending an invalid metar, without users being mislead it's a GSX bug ?
Not sure what the issue with malformed metars are since my aircraft and 2 other add ons all read the outside temp ok from simconnect
As I've said in my previous reply, reading the temperature alone doesn't require reading a Simconnect metar, because there's a variable for it. But order to read the Dew point, which is important to evaluate possible icing conditions, we MUST read the metar.
And no, reading the variable for the temperature, and the metar for the dew point doesn't guarantee it will work better because, if we get conflicting data (again, because of missing or invalid metar), a wrong dew point will confuse the evaluation of the possible icing conditions, since it's calculated to its relationship with the temperature.
I'll check with activesky enabled, to see if we are really getting invalid metar.