FSDreamTeam forum
Products Support => Memphis KMEM Support FSX/P3D => Topic started by: downscc on June 08, 2016, 01:49:56 am
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Remember how FSX used to exhibit a strange object/aircraft bounce when first viewing from Tower..., well this is similar but worse.
All way from landing PMDG B777F to parking and after shutdown, any change in view such as from cockpit to locked spot or changing zoom and all heavens bounce. Open a second window and everything bounces. Change view to tower and the poor airplane is lifted 30 feet in the air and is dropped.
Other than that... LOL. Other than that, this is a much appreciated addition to your product line. I am so happy to replace the old add on I had that was barely better than default for this beautiful airport. So far only squawk I have is this very pronounced bouncing. I mean really, it's severe.
EDIT: I need to add this is in P3Dv3.2, my mesh resolution is 2m.
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Have you tried disabling the Gear bump in the YouControl menu options ?
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Have you tried disabling the Gear bump in the YouControl menu options ?
I thought of that after session was over, will try it this morning and report back. Thanks.
Major bounce is still there. Here's some things about it that might be of interest.
The bounce always happens with changing from an external view with another view (internal cockpit or external aircraft view). The amount of bounce seems to depend on how far the change in position of the view point or camera is between views. For example, between cockpit and external locked view the bounce is inches but changing between top down and locked view can be more than 50 feet. Just changing zoom levels in the top down view will cause an audible "boom" and the aircraft lands. The bounce is less a bounce than a sudden shift in aircraft location on the z axis (vertical), on a change of view the aircraft is suddenly in the air and drops to the "new" surface.
Only happens at your new KMEM... something pretty basic I hope because I like the product.
Above statement is wrong. I am now seeing this at KLAX regardless of aircraft with or without KMEM active in the scenery library.
Disregard I guess... unless you have a suggestion. This doesn't appear to be a KMEM induced problem. Sorry and thanks.
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EDIT: I need to add this is in P3Dv3.2, my mesh resolution is 2m.
That may just be a P3D bug, I've had planes spawn from a couple hundred feet up. Excessive view and/or airport switching is what triggers it for me.
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I have the same problem. I will bounce big time when changing views. I am not sure why it happens here, I have had it happen on a much milder scale, but at KMEM it is obvious and happens when moving or stationary. Happened while parked at the gate, took me far enough off the ground it reset the jetway and pulled away the GSX items.
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Try this.
https://www.rikoooo.com/en/faq/131-frequently-asked-questions/questions-about-simulators-and-add-ons/29-the-eurosquadron-2005
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Try this.
https://www.rikoooo.com/en/faq/131-frequently-asked-questions/questions-about-simulators-and-add-ons/29-the-eurosquadron-2005
I tried several mesh resolution settings, no this much more severe than I've ever seen before which is why I first thought it was KMEM.
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FWIW, if you Google the problem you're having, many of the topics have to do with the PMDG 777. Maybe try another plane?
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I was using the NGX....I will try a different one
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I'm experiencing the same thing, but it's more of a drop rather than a bounce. It happens when switching from a top-down view to any other view. For example if I'm in a top-down view and then switch to spot plane view, the aircraft will be about 50 feet or so up and then drops to the surface. And, the more I zoom out in the top-down view the higher the drop after I switch views. But even in the top-down view, if I change the zoom level, the drop still happens although it's not really visible from that view other than a bit of dust/smoke when the gears hit the ground and an audible sound of the impact.
FWIW, if you Google the problem you're having, many of the topics have to do with the PMDG 777. Maybe try another plane?
It doesn't matter which aircraft is used. The drop happens with any aircraft including default models. So, I decided to do a test to see if it happens at any airport (payware or freeware). I tested it on 3 FlyTampa airports, 2 Orbx airports, 1 FlightBeam airport, 1 ImagineSim airport, 1 Aerosoft airport, 1 freeware airport and 2 FSDT airports. It only happens on the FSDT airfields. I thought it might be Orbx vector causing it because of the Airport Elevation Correction, so I disabled it but the drop still happened. And I've tried to change mesh resolution settings and still no joy. Considering that it's not happening at any of the other airports, I would say it is directly related to FSDT scenery. Any suggestions on how to fix this problem?
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I'm experiencing the same thing, but it's more of a drop rather than a bounce. It happens when switching from a top-down view to any other view.
If you did this:
Have you tried disabling the Gear bump in the YouControl menu options ?
There's nothing else you can do.
It is possible the plane would bounce when switching views, and it's simply how the scenery is made, there's nothing we can do about it.
The extremely good fps considering the huge scenery size, is due to some special handling we need to do in order to both preserve fps and memory.
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Have you tried disabling the Gear bump in the YouControl menu options ?
There's nothing else you can do.
It is possible the plane would bounce when switching views, and it's simply how the scenery is made, there's nothing we can do about it.
The extremely good fps considering the huge scenery size, is due to some special handling we need to do in order to both preserve fps and memory.
No, I haven't tried that yet and quite frankly I don't know how to. Can you please explain how I would get to the YouControl menu options? The only two things I have on YouControl are GSX - Activate Ground Services and Vancouver International Airport.
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The only two things I have on YouControl are GSX - Activate Ground Services and Vancouver International Airport.
Do you realize we are discussing of KMEM ?
If you are at Vancouver, it's normal you would see the YouControl menu for the Vancouver airport but that doesn't have the GearBump option, and should't cause any bumps as you described, while it might be possible at KMEM.
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Well, that's funny because the subject of this topic is "Major Bounce" and not "Major Bounce at KMEM".
Ok, I just realized that the "Major Bounce" thread is under KMEM Support topic. I didn't realize this till now as I clicked on a link in google to get here. But that doesn't change the fact that the drop is happening at all your airports. So, what would you like me to do? Post this on every FSDT airport support thread?
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I believe you wrote the issue occurred a CYVR and KLAX. That is not all the airports. I believe 1 + 1 is 2. Try the General Forum which is a subforum of FSDreamteam Forum.
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Ok, judging from your lack of response Virtuali, I would presume that you are not going to look into this and try to resolve it.
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Ok, judging from your lack of response Virtuali, I would presume that you are not going to look into this and try to resolve it.
Judging from your attitude against other FELLOW users, I would presume that you should have earned a ban instead.
But in order not to confuse this thread (which is about KMEM) any further than you already did, and save you from some embarrassment for your behavior, I removed some of your comments against me and other users.
Since you said yourself:
I tested it on 3 FlyTampa airports, 2 Orbx airports, 1 FlightBeam airport, 1 ImagineSim airport, 1 Aerosoft airport, 1 freeware airport and 2 FSDT airports. It only happens on the FSDT airfields.
If none of these 2 FSDT airports you tested it's KMEM, then please post a precise description of the problem in the proper support area of the affected scenery (just ONE it's enough, of course), clearly indicating:
- The airplane used.
- Your location on the airport
- Which other scenery addons you have installed.
- The precise reproduction steps that cause the problem.
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I am seeing the exact same bounce behavior that Flying Ace exhibited in his videos. It happens at KMEM only....that is the only FSDreamteam scenery that I currently have. The "bounce" is induced by switching from top-down view to outside cockpit view for me. The plane drops a good 20 feet or so and bounces around several times before it comes to rest. I am flying the SimA 737. The only other add-ons I have are UTX and GEX. This behavior did not happen at KMEM prior to adding the FSDreamteam scenery. It started happening first thing after adding the KMEM scenery.
Would be nice to have a fix!
Fred K
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I am seeing the exact same bounce behavior that Flying Ace exhibited in his videos. It happens at KMEM only....that is the only FSDreamteam scenery that I currently have. The "bounce" is induced by switching from top-down view to outside cockpit view for me. The plane drops a good 20 feet or so and bounces around several times before it comes to rest. I am flying the SimA 737. The only other add-ons I have are UTX and GEX. This behavior did not happen at KMEM prior to adding the FSDreamteam scenery. It started happening first thing after adding the KMEM scenery.
Would be nice to have a fix!
Fred K
Ok so now that's 3 of FSDT airports that are causing the same drop/bounce, which is what I've been saying all along. And, once again, given that it doesn't happen at any other airport by other developers, payware or freeware, deductive reasoning dictates that it will most likely happen at other FSDT airports as well. That said, the obvious question now is for Virtuali, do you still think it has nothing to do with FSDT scenery?
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And, once again, given that it doesn't happen at any other airport by other developers, payware or freeware, deductive reasoning dictates that it will most likely happen at other FSDT airports as well. That said, the obvious question now is for Virtuali, do you still think it has nothing to do with FSDT scenery?
Sure. You might have a point if you had another scenery for the *same* airport, but this way, the only thing you can say, is that this issue happens AT those places, not that it's *caused* by the FSDT scenery, just that is affected by it.
As you can see, it doesn't happen on my system, testing the same place ( CYVR, Gate 50, PMDG 777 )
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,14407.msg106189.html#msg106189
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Umberto
Can you suggest anything to look for then that can be affecting this behavior then?
Additional information.....
In my case this is happening on completely fresh installs of WIN 10 and P3Dv3.3.5 (the latest update of Windows 10 had completely corrupted things). I run my visuals using WideView (a server plus 3 clients). So I have 3 instances of FSDreamteam Memphis running on my clients. All computers are 100% dedicated for Sim use. The only other add-ons I have are UTX and GEX.....and if I disable those I see the same bounce thing happening. I normally use the display on my WV server for top-down view only to navigate taxiways etc.
So...I am now seeing some strange things happening at KMEM. For example, if I am flying into KMEM from another airport the plane literally lands about 25 feet above the ground and continues to float above the ground after landing. If I switch out of "top-down" view on the server the plane will then immediately drop the 25 feet to the ground on the WV clients. Likewise if I am taking off at KMEM all is normal until a few seconds after lift-off where the plane will abruptly rise vertically by that 25 feet or so.
Also, after installing the FSDreamteam KMEM scenery I see some other strange anomalies happen on P3D startup. My home airport is KRIC and that is where my WV client computers boot to on startup. Now on boot-up I am experiencing the plane dropping from the air and doing the bounce thing always settling in a different orientation at the airport for the display on each client. This part is not necessarily a problem for me because when I start the WV server the plane positions adjust back to normal. Likewise, take-off and landings from KRIC or any other airports are completely normal. However, I mention it because perhaps it can provide a clue as to what is going on.
In thinking about it here....my feeling is that something changed in the WV client aircraft.cfgs with the installation of the KMEM scenery that is causing this. Also, that change would not have happened on my WV server since there is no need to install the KMEM scenery there since I do not use the server for visual display. So perhaps there is some kind of incompatabilty there. I plan to do some further investigation with all that. I will report back what I find.
Right now I only have KMEM installed as an airport scenery addon. Before I reinstalled Windows and P3D I had FSDreamteam KMEM installed and also many other airport sceneries including FSDreamteam JFK V2. I saw the same behavior for FSD KMEM then. However there were no problems with any other addon airports including FSDT JFK.
Hopefully this additional information will point to some clues. Any further ideas would be much appreciated of course.
Thanks,
Fred K
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So...I am now seeing some strange things happening at KMEM. For example, if I am flying into KMEM from another airport the plane literally lands about 25 feet above the ground and continues to float above the ground after landing.
Yes, it happens to me as well, and I have no problems admitting it. However, it happens to me (not always, I'd say 15% of the times), even with default airports. Or, when moving from a default airport to a non-default airport and vice-versa. Is not specifically related to KMEM.
KMEM has its own specific *side* effects that happens WHEN this happens, due to how it's made, but it's just how KMEM reacts to the issue that happens (sometimes) anyway, and not just on FSDT airport.
When I realize this is happening, what I usually do is press the Y key immediately, to put the sim in Slew mode, then I move the cursor keys a bit forward/backward, press F1 to have the plane "stick" on ground, then I exit Slew mode.
I think it's just the sim that needs some time to adjust the new ground altitude, and this is a problem that can happen everywhere, it's just that KMEM might REACT more visibly to it, due to the very peculiar way it's made.
If I switch out of "top-down" view on the server the plane will then immediately drop the 25 feet to the ground on the WV clients. Likewise if I am taking off at KMEM all is normal until a few seconds after lift-off where the plane will abruptly rise vertically by that 25 feet or so.
In thinking about it here....my feeling is that something changed in the WV client aircraft.cfgs with the installation of the KMEM scenery that is causing this. Also, that change would not have happened on my WV server since there is no need to install the KMEM scenery there since I do not use the server for visual display. So perhaps there is some kind of incompatabilty there. I plan to do some further investigation with all that. I will report back what I find.
Using a network configuration surely will add to the complexity and so many new things can go wrong. We can only rely on your reports, because we surely never test or design the sceneries to support such configuration
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I also have the issue with the bounces at KMEM. If I go to external view the airplane bounces every time between switching views - which if I forget that it does that and I'm connected to ground power - causes everything to shut down (in the PMDG NGX 737) so slewing doesn't help. I'm a fan of everything you guys do (I have LAX, LAS, DFW, ORD, MEM, and GSX) but this issue makes Memphis unusable for me. It's a shame because it's a beautiful airport. If it's a known issue that cannot be resolved I believe there should be a note about it somewhere for people considering purchasing the airport so people are aware.
Before I purchase the rest of your airports, do any other airports have this same issue? Appreciate the info.
My specs:
Prepar3d v3
i7 5870K 4.2 Ghz
64Gb DDR4 RAM
SSD
GTX 1080
W10 64 bit
Using:
PMDG NGX 737
Active Sky 16
ORBX Gloabl, Open LC NA, Vector (I have run the vector auto configuration tool)
Note: Bounces only occur at KMEM and occurs 100% of the time.
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If I go to external view the airplane bounces every time between switching views
Here's a video showing the problem doesn't happen:
Before I purchase the rest of your airports, do any other airports have this same issue?
KMEM doesn't have this issue, and the other airport don't either, see all the video I posted here at KLAX and CYVR, in FSX and P3D too:
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,14407.msg106074.html#msg106074
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,14407.msg106189.html#msg106189
The only thing that seems common to those that reported it, is that you all use OrbX products, which is why I always ask to DISABLE (not just run the configuration tool ) them, to be sure they are really disabled.
Also, are you SURE you use the CURRENT version of the Addon Manager ?
It's normally downloaded automatically when you install anything from FSDT but, if it has been a while since you have installed something, you might not have the current version so, download and install the current Stand-Alone Addon Manager, to be sure everything is updated.
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@FlyingAce:
We are trying to find the issue, doing all the proper steps in troubleshooting, and I'm obviously offering advices and possible solutions, which might not be the SAME for all users.
As I've already told you, several times, the reason for me posting my videos, proving the problem doesn't happen, on a clean FSX and P3D installation, it's made to provide users with useful information: that the scenery, on itself, is NOT the cause of this, so it must be something else, which is a valuable information for an user wanting to start from somewhere.
As I've said, we only advertise our sceneries to be compatible with FSX, FSX:SE or P3D, that's the ONLY thing we can guarantee, regardless how much "popular" another 3rd party addon might be, it's simply not possible for us to verify compatibility with everything that's out there.
In order to allow users to verify if the sceneries are compatible with their installed addons, we have a TRIAL VERSION, so it's best to take advantage of it.
As long as you continue to post attacks, and insinuation about the supposed "subpar" quality of the products, which is not obviously true (something that I PROVED in video, several times, debunking your theories), your posts will always going to be deleted, because of your annoying attitude.
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We had another look into this, and I can confirm the following:
- If your Addon Manager is outdated, meaning it's the version which was current when KMEM was originally released, the bounce WILL happen.
- We FIXED this in the June 15th release:
http://www.fsdreamteam.com/couatl_liveupdate_notes.html
June 15th 2016
Fixed a problem when warping between different places at KMEM, with some sound emitters not being destroyed.
Fixed a problem of Avatar mode not being correctly detected in P3D 3.3.5
Fixed a problem that could result in airplane bouncing on ground when changing the viewpoint.
So, the only possible explanation, to everyone having this problem, is that you are still using the original Addon Manager file which was included in the original KMEM release, and you decided to skip all the subsequent update notification we published since then.
Note that, if you use the original KMEM installer, which *contains* the now outdated version, and your firewall/antivirus is blocking the *download* of the current one (all FSDT installers always download the most current Addon Manager when they run), that's another possible explanation why you are still stuck with the outdated version.
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Umberto, why did you delete my last comment? I did not make any attacks. I posed simple questions that deserve simple answers.
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I posed simple questions that deserve simple answers.
I already replied in my two previous posts about another possible cause of the problem.
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The two previous posts you are referring to suggest that the possible cause might be Orbx products or an outdated version of the add-on manager. Well, allow me to tell you that's not the case. I did deactivate all Orbx add-ons when I performed my tests and I do have the latest version of the add-on manager. So, they can't be the cause. Now, will you answer my questions if I re-post them? As a paying customer I deserve answers to my questions. If not, then please refund all my money.
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I did deactivate all Orbx add-ons when I performed my tests and I do have the latest version of the add-on manager. So, they can't be the cause.
Since the only two possible causes are these ones, and I confirmed that, if you don't have the latest Addon Manager, the bounce WILL happen, no matter what, the most likely issue is that you THINK you have the latest Addon Manager, but you don't.
I already explained a possible reason why, even if you installed it now (so you are assuming you have installed it), you might still have the outdated version, because your antivirus/firewall might have blocked the download of the current one.
Now, will you answer my questions if I re-post them?
I already replied to all the questions, now please do what I've asked, and be absolutely sure you DO have the latest Addon Manager. The latest version which is online now is 3.0.0.18, but the version which FIXED the problem was 3.0.0.14, which was released June 15th.
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Oh really? Well, I'm sorry to tell you but YOU'RE WRONG!!! I don't think I have the latest Addon Manager, I KNOW I have the latest Addon Manager. It was downloaded and installed on September 30th and here's the proof. I've even attached a screen shot of windows file explorer showing the date the file was added to my computer. I'd like to see how you're going to argue this.
http://i.imgur.com/OPUgNMU.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/OPUgNMU.jpg)
I already explained a possible reason why, even if you installed it now (so you are assuming you have installed it), you might still have the outdated version, because your antivirus/firewall might have blocked the download of the current one.
No Umberto, I'm not assuming anything. You're the one making the assumptions and once again you're wrong. As proven above and in my video below, I don't have an outdated version and FYI, I ALWAYS deactivate my antivirus and firewall when I install new software.
Since the only two possible causes are these ones, and I confirmed that
Wrong!!! And here's the proof.
I already replied to all the questions
No you didn't. I will ask you again. Are you going to allow me to re-post my questions and will you respond to them without you deleting them, YES OR NO? If not, then I would like a full refund of all the money I have paid you for your products.
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Oh really? Well, I'm sorry to tell you but YOU'RE WRONG!!! I don't think I have the latest Addon Manager, I KNOW I have the latest Addon Manager. It was downloaded and installed on September 30th and here's the proof. I've even attached a screen shot of windows file explorer showing the date the file was added to my computer. I'd like to see how you're going to argue this.
There's nothing to "argue" here: you do have the latest Addon Manager (and it was correct for me to ask you to double check it), which only means in your case, the problem is something else, which is neither OrbX or the outdated Addon Manager.
Do you have the Avatar disabled in the General options ?
The Addon Manager asks the sim if the Avatar is inside or outside the airplane, and it handles the ground based if the avatar is outside the airplane or inside but, maybe, if the whole Avatar feature is disabled, is possible that Simconnect is not setting the variable correctly, so the program thinks you are outside the plane in Avatar mode, even if the Avatar is disabled.
EDIT:
I checked it, and it's indeed what is happening! I CAN reproduce it too: if you DISABLE the Avatar in the General options, Simconnect incorrectly reports as if you were with the Avatar outside the plane, and THIS causes the ground bouncing. When the Avatar is enabled, the variable is correctly updated.
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There's nothing to "argue" here: you do have the latest Addon Manager (and it was correct for me to ask you to double check it)
But you were so SURE that these are the ONLY two causes why this is happening and supposedly, you CONFIRMED it. Those were your exact words...
Since the only two possible causes are these ones, and I confirmed that
I checked it, and it's indeed what is happening! I CAN reproduce it too: if you DISABLE the Avatar in the General options, Simconnect incorrectly reports as if you were with the Avatar outside the plane, and THIS causes the ground bouncing. When the Avatar is enabled, the variable is correctly updated.
I concur with your findings. This is indeed what was happening and now that I have the avatar option enabled, the bounce no longer happens at CYVR or KLAX. Congratulations you solved it! That said however, I still do not agree with your method of dealing with a dissatisfied paying customer and your level of customer service. You were wrong all along. It was never the other add-ons as you kept insisting. You were so sure of yourself and came across as very arrogant. As a paying customer, it was very infuriating and frustrating being treated as if I'm stupid and I'm sure there are others who felt the same way. I hope this incident has humbled you a little bit and made you realize that you're not always right and that you should treat your paying customers with more respect.
That said, I'm curious about something now. In your own words, you said that you can guarantee that FSDT products work fine with a fresh install of FSX and P3D. Well, now that you know the real cause of this issue, do you still stand behind those words or do you now blame P3D for being the cause?
Finally, I would appreciate if you would stop editing/omitting parts of my posts. These are my words and you have no right to change/delete them. I'm not using profanity or making any false accusations. I was merely stating the facts and it turns out I was right all along. You can't just delete people's words just because you feel challenged or confronted by them.
Anyway, congratulations again on solving this mystery and I guess this matter is now closed.
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You were wrong all along
It wasn't caused by a "problem" in our software. That what I was saying all along. You said you were sure it was a problem with our coding, which wasn't the case.
It was never the other add-ons as you kept insisting.
The Orbx issue was just one of the possible causes I indicated.
I added a 2nd one, the outdated Addon Manager, and since this wasn't either, the only possible explanation left, was that sim itself reporting a standard documented variable in the wrong way. Since I was *sure* there was no bug in our software (because it WAS fixed in the June 15th update!!), the only possible explanation left, was a bug in the sim.
And in fact, that's exactly what is happening.
That said, I'm curious about something now. In your own words, you said that you can guarantee that FSDT products work fine with a fresh install of FSX and P3D. Well, now that you know the real cause of this issue, do you still stand behind those words or do you now blame P3D for being the cause?
Sure. By default, the Avatar mode is Enabled, so on a default installation, you should never come across with that specific P3D bug and, of course, we assumed that, since one of KMEM most prominent features was the support for it, users would have it enabled it, which is the default setting.
Anyway, congratulations again on solving this mystery and I guess this matter is now closed.
I thank you for your insistence too, which lead me to research into the "impossible" ( a P3D bug ), since we seemed to have exhausted all the "possible" options.
I also reported the issue in the LM support forum:
http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6310&t=122196
So, hopefully, if they fix it, it would never happen again, that a customer using KMEM with the Avatar disabled, won't mistakenly assume there's a problem with it, when in fact it's a P3D bug.
And yes, just in case LM won't fix it, we already have an alternative solution ready, which is hacking into the sim to check if the Avatar is disabled, but I rather not using it, both because it's a potentially messy solution that would require updating the Addon Manager for each new build of the sim, and in general I would rather stay away from using undocumented features and direct memory access. This because the sim doesn't tell us (using documented methods) if the Avatar is disabled, so we cannot know for certain if we can rely on the value of the official variable.
So, the best solution would be that LM would fix it on their side, also because OTHER addons might also need to rely on that value to be correct, so something else out there might have issues if it's relying on the sim to provide the correct information about the avatar status.