General Category > General Discussion
Jetways only KSFO, yet again :(
robains:
I re-ran the Add-On Manager installer "Run as Administrator". I then ran the "Check for Live Updates" again. Then restarted. This seems to have cleared up the problem.
But I run into this problem frequently, if I uninstall just one airport it will create this problem where I only see Jetways. I have just about all the products supported by Virtuali so there is a bug around the uninstalling of a single airport or more than one airport.
Rob
virtuali:
--- Quote from: robains on December 30, 2013, 08:15:26 am --- I have just about all the products supported by Virtuali so there is a bug around the uninstalling of a single airport or more than one airport.
--- End quote ---
No, there isn't, as I've said, just uninstalling a product won't affect the others. Why happened on your system might depend on something additional you did while uninstalling/reinstalling, even a while ago, like manually removing files once, which might cause uninstallers lost track to what they should do.
robains:
I'm just trying to help you Umberto, if you don't want to believe me then not much I can do. I have not messed with any files outside of the installers other than setting them to "Run as Administrator".
I think your bug revolves around one or both of the prompts during the uninstall process of a single airport. The end user is presented with two prompts during the uninstall process, one is to remove the Add-On manager and the other is to remove another key component. I think your problem is around the responses to these prompts. I was very careful in making sure I answered so that neither would be removed.
But frankly, the uninstaller should be able to detect other installed Virtuali products and simply NOT offer these two prompts as they could effective disable those products and that would be a situation that shouldn't be offered to an end user -- there is NO case where an end user would want to disable all their other Virtuali products when they are just uninstalling a single airport/product. In fact, to take the design logic one step further there really is NO instance where these two prompts provide a positive purpose. If the Uninstaller has the appropriate code/logic to determine how many products are already installed, it would know when it's uninstalling the last and final product and do the necessary code to remove those two key components.
But again, I'm just trying to help you avoid these types of support calls. As you can see many others have encountered the same issue, so it's not just me.
Rob
virtuali:
--- Quote from: robains on December 30, 2013, 07:36:55 pm ---I'm just trying to help you Umberto, if you don't want to believe me then not much I can do
--- End quote ---
I obviously believe it happened TO YOU, that doesn't mean there's a problem in the installer. As I've said, there might be other reason, depending what you did *outside* the installation, that might cause this, and it's not possible to say for sure, without having checked all the history of your file operations.
--- Quote ---But frankly, the uninstaller should be able to detect other installed Virtuali products and simply NOT offer these two prompts as they could effective disable those products and that would be a situation that shouldn't be offered to an end user
--- End quote ---
The Uninstaller DOES the correct thing, which is ALERTING you that IF you reply YES to removing those modules you will lose your other installed products, but DOES offer you the choice to remove them anyway, because you might WANT to "clean up" your installation for many reasons. You will NOT lose the other installed product if you reply NO to both questions.
--- Quote ---there is NO case where an end user would want to disable all their other Virtuali products when they are just uninstalling a single airport/product.
--- End quote ---
Every time you need a complete Uninstall, this should be accessible from any Uninstaller. Would you rather have an Uninstaller that doesn't even give you the CHOICE to remove modules that you might not want to run with FSX for any reason, with the only option to manually remove files ?
--- Quote ---If the Uninstaller has the appropriate code/logic to determine how many products are already installed, it would know when it's uninstalling the last and final product and do the necessary code to remove those two key components.
--- End quote ---
That logic is ALREADY obviously there, and it works. If you reply NO to both questions, the Uninstaller KNOWS that the Addon Manager and the Couatl script engines are shared modules, and they are NOT removed "by default". "By default", means replying NO to both questions.
Now, it's obviously possible to use what you call "take the design logic one step further", which is a service offered by Windows and is called "Reference Counting", which is used by some Windows .DLL. Basically, every installer that needs to install a shared .DLL, will increase a counter for that file in the Windows registry, and every Uninstaller will decrease it. When the counter goes to zero, it means there's no need for that shared file, so it can be safely removed.
The obvious question would be "then why you don't use it ?" Because, of course, IT NEVER WORKS. Not in the real world. It works only in a perfect world of using never making any mistakes or never having any problems or never trying to fix problems themselves. It would be enough you remove this .DLL manually once, and the internal counter lose its sync and it's not reliable anymore. So, you will need a backup "cleaning" option anyway, which is what we have already...
--- Quote ---But again, I'm just trying to help you avoid these types of support calls
--- End quote ---
It's for the exact precise reason to REDUCE support, that we have an option to make a complete removal, without having to rely to automatic methods which, as I've said, works only when everything is 100% perfect.
Fact that you believe the Uninstaller has a "bug", clearly proves this. There isn't one, you just ended up in some unusual situation that might have been caused by something made in the past.
--- Quote ---As you can see many others have encountered the same issue, so it's not just me.
--- End quote ---
No, it's just you. You are suggesting there's an Uninstaller bug, but that's not the case. Don't confuse cause with the effect. There might be many reasons for losing a scenery, but they are not caused by a problem in the Uninstaller.
As I've said, I believe YOU had a problem during the Uninstall process but, again, it's not the Uninstaller that caused it, or that cause it under normal conditions, I can't say exactly why it happened to you, but I can't see many other reports of losing a product "just" by Uninstalling another one.
robains:
Umberto,
Please stop accusing me of doing "something outside" - I haven't. I have no vested interest in sabotage ... which is what you seem to think I'm doing?? Honestly, I'm trying to help.
If you want to build in the option to uninstall EVERYTHING, you only need one and only one prompt "Would you like to uninstall ALL products?" - and that is only displayed to the end user IF and only IF there is more than one product installed. Instead, you have a processing that asks the user two prompts every time they want to uninstall a single product ... and to be honest most end users probably don't even know what those two prompts are referencing. You NEVER want to ask your users anything more than you really need to because it just allows for more errors to happen and hence more support.
As for the number of products installed, you are NOT restricted to "Reference counting" -- you have multiple options, you can run your own process from within a standard Windows installer (Microsoft's, Wise, Installshield, etc.) that doesn't use canned solutions. Or you can go the canned solution route as each of those products offer support for dependencies (some better than others). But the easiest solution is to check you own managed file for product count and validate each ... in fact you already do this via the Add-On Manager (extend that logic in the installer/uninstaller).
Anyway, to duplicate this error:
1. Make sure you have Honolulu and Hawaii airports and all other FSDT and FlightBeam airports installed and up to date.
2. In the scenery library uncheck all airports except KSFO and JFK2
3. Exit P3DV2
4. Run the Honolulu and Hawaii airport uninstaller (via Control Panel they will have a unique entry for P3DV2)
5. Now run P3DV2 and start at some default airport like Minnesota St.Paul
6. Go To Airport and select KSFO
Again, I'm trying to help, accusing me of sabotaging "something outside" isn't productive.
If it's just me, why have others reported the same problem?
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