Author Topic: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2  (Read 13737 times)

Dave_YVR

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Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« on: December 05, 2013, 11:26:50 pm »
 Reading over at the LM P3d forums one of the users mentioned a fairly quick performance drop at PHOG, so I decided to try it myself.

 I have no AI in p3d v2 at all, I've got FTXG and the newest FSDT Hawaiian Airports. I start at PHOG shutdown just sitting in the Beech A36, frames locked at 33. The VAS is good at 1.78gb, and all other system resources are quite low as well. After 10 minutes the frames are at 23 and after 20 minutes the frames are now at 11 and slowly dropping. System resources available are all unchanged.

 As a further test, I've also tried this at KHKO, PHTO and PHNL with the same results. As a kind of control, I tried FSDT YVR and also default PHOG with the Hawaiian airports disabled from the library where there was no drop in performance at all.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 11:35:08 pm by Dave_YVR »

simbio

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Re: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2013, 01:01:40 am »
Thank's for report.
I am investigating on it and I will fix it ASAP.

virtuali

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Re: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2013, 09:58:47 am »
We believe we know what causes this. P3D 2 has bug that causes either fps dropping or even its main menu disappearing, when a scenery features a custom runway with an invisible FS8 SDK runway with just lights on top of it. This method is very common and it's working fine in FS9, FSX and P3D V1.

We reported it to LM, and they are hopefully fix it in the next patch.

Dave_YVR

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Re: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2013, 05:58:07 pm »
Interesting, thanks guys.

robains

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Re: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2014, 08:28:11 pm »
We believe we know what causes this. P3D 2 has bug that causes either fps dropping or even its main menu disappearing, when a scenery features a custom runway with an invisible FS8 SDK runway with just lights on top of it. This method is very common and it's working fine in FS9, FSX and P3D V1.

We reported it to LM, and they are hopefully fix it in the next patch.

You really believe LM should fix legacy usage from FS8 days?  I personally hope LM spend their time on other more critical problems than supporting FS8 usage (dating back to October 2001) ... please tell me you're not serious about this hope/expectation?

Hnla

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Re: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2014, 11:16:49 pm »
Quote
You really believe LM should fix legacy usage from FS8 days?  I personally hope LM spend their time on other more critical problems than supporting FS8 usage (dating back to October 2001) ... please tell me you're not serious about this hope/expectation?

Really?  ??? Do you *really* think it's easier to re-develop every single scenery that has old FS9/8 code that's out there (which is a lot ) VS fixing a small issue in LM P3D V2 ??

virtuali

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Re: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2014, 06:59:57 am »
You really believe LM should fix legacy usage from FS8 days?  I personally hope LM spend their time on other more critical problems than supporting FS8 usage (dating back to October 2001) ... please tell me you're not serious about this hope/expectation?

Obviously yes.

We are fairly lucky, since we have about 4-5 of just 12 airports that still use some FS8 code and not even all of them use that specific command that causes this problem in FSX, because we were wise enough to switch to FSX NATIVE code since 2010, which means every product released after that date doesn't have the problem. But still, updating even some airports will take some time.

There's a message from Mathijs Kok of Aerosoft on the LM forum, asking to fix a similar legacy compatibility problem, that said they would have to re-open and fix *hundreds* of project so, it seems there are others which are likely more "serious" than we are on the backward compatibility issue.

In any case, we decided to wait at least for the first path from LM before doing something that might not be needed anymore. If the next patch doesn't fix it, we'll try to fix it from our side.

robains

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Re: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2014, 10:00:23 pm »
You really believe LM should fix legacy usage from FS8 days?  I personally hope LM spend their time on other more critical problems than supporting FS8 usage (dating back to October 2001) ... please tell me you're not serious about this hope/expectation?

Obviously yes.

We are fairly lucky, since we have about 4-5 of just 12 airports that still use some FS8 code and not even all of them use that specific command that causes this problem in FSX, because we were wise enough to switch to FSX NATIVE code since 2010, which means every product released after that date doesn't have the problem. But still, updating even some airports will take some time.

There's a message from Mathijs Kok of Aerosoft on the LM forum, asking to fix a similar legacy compatibility problem, that said they would have to re-open and fix *hundreds* of project so, it seems there are others which are likely more "serious" than we are on the backward compatibility issue.

In any case, we decided to wait at least for the first path from LM before doing something that might not be needed anymore. If the next patch doesn't fix it, we'll try to fix it from our side.

So I begin to see the real problem why end user (your customers) will never see the light of a 64bit platform ... you realize you're just shooting yourself in the foot for a few extra pennies?  If you looked at a bigger long term future, those pennies would be dollars (or euros - take your pick).  It really boggles my mind ... you have the opportunity to move forward and your stuck in the past ... 13 years in the past.

I can only hope this isn't the precedence for 3rd party content providers -- if it is, I may as well walk away from this hobby.  Read LM/Beau's response to this FS8 issue ... a "small issue" it is not.

Anyway, good luck, this just once again re-affirms the reason I'm moving away from products under Virtuali -- last thing I want is to see a 3rd party content provider telling LM to support 13 year old design constructs just so they don't have to do any work.  At what point did you think/believe LM are the only ones that should be updating their work??

« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 10:03:16 pm by robains »

DesertPilot85

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Re: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2014, 10:45:09 pm »
I have installed most of FSDT's USA airports, and fortunately, most of them work just fine on Prepar3D v2 for me.  Including KJFK V2, KLAX, KORD, KDFW, and KLAS.

So far, only the Hawaiian airports aren't working well.  I don't have the Switzerland airports, so not sure about them.



virtuali

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Re: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2014, 08:05:23 am »
So I begin to see the real problem why end user (your customers) will never see the light of a 64bit platform ... you realize you're just shooting yourself in the foot for a few extra pennies?  If you looked at a bigger long term future, those pennies would be dollars (or euros - take your pick).  It really boggles my mind ... you have the opportunity to move forward and your stuck in the past ... 13 years in the past.

It's really mind-blowing how you managed to be entirely and utterly wrong under every account with just one simple sentence. You managed to get the reality of the situation ENTIRELY backwards, the only possible explanation is, you wanted to post this on Aerosoft forum, and got confused and posted it here.

Let's see the facts:

- We were the absolute FIRST developers to release fully native native FSX code for a scenery, back in 2007, when nobody else had any idea how to do it

- We were one of the first developers to support Prepar3D, without absurd dual licensing, paid updates and anything like that. All our products license for P3D has always been offered under the same license than the FSX one.

- We were one of the first developers to support Prepar3D V2, with all our installers available a couple of days after it was released.

- We are still one of the first developers that, since 2010, doesn't have ANY single bit of FS8 or FS9 code in their sceneries. KDFW, KLAX, CYVR and KJFK2 don't have ANY legacy code, and there are basically no other developers that can say the same.

If you should hold to your absurd reasoning that you would stop purchasing products from developers "stuck in the past" (which is laughable when directed to FSDT), you should stop to purchase *anything*, because each and every 3rd party scenery out there has some FS8 code inside.

We have this problem only in some of the older sceneries and, as I've said, quite clearly, we are just waiting for the first fix from LM and, if they don't fix it, WE WILL! Wasn't that clear enough ?

Quote
last thing I want is to see a 3rd party content provider telling LM to support 13 year old design constructs just so they don't have to do any work.  At what point did you think/believe LM are the only ones that should be updating their work??

Because, OBVIOUSLY, if a fix from LM will make HUNDREDS of 3rd party sceneries to be working ( hundred ONLY from Aerosoft, according to them, we don't know how many more are around, and that's not even counting freeware ), it makes sense for them to fix it, instead of having hundreds of sceneries to be updated and users having to scourge around for hundreds of patches for all their stuff.

But other than that, this is not just an "ordinary" backward compatibility issue. Do you even KNOW how the problem manifests ? The whole P3D MENU DISAPPEARS, and the fps halves.

Do you find this to be normal ? Don't you realize that, something like this might be a symptom for a potentially dangerous memory leakage in the sim ? That's why THIS has to be fixed by LM or, at least, being checked why it's happening.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 10:42:49 pm by virtuali »

DesertPilot85

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Re: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2014, 05:25:07 pm »
I'm indeed very pleased that FSDT has been in the forefront of ensuring all their products are, or will be, compatible (one way or another) with P3D v2.  It's very nice that the FSDT/FlightBeam common installer is already v2 friendly.

I shall be patient and wait for FSDT's upcoming updates (for whatever v2 can't resolve).

Noel

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Re: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2014, 05:20:29 pm »
Well, unfortunately there is no mention in the upcoming patch on this issue.  I will go ahead and post a request re this issue...

virtuali

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Re: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2014, 09:53:26 pm »
We asked again to LM if they are going to fix this issue. It might add some additional weight to it if some users would also post on their forum about it.

Note that, this is not an FSDT-only issue, that method to do runway lights over a custom textured runway is *very* common, there are probably hundreds if not more (including freeware) sceneries that will have the same issue so, it's best if the report is presented as such.

As I've said, we already know HOW to fix it from our side, even if LM doesn't fix it in the next patch, but I still believe it would be better if they fix it in any case, because it might be a sympthom of a potentially dangerous memory leak.

virtuali

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Re: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2014, 04:15:10 pm »
I'm happy to report this problem has been fixed in the upcoming P3D v2.2

Dave_YVR

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Re: Hawaiian Airports performance degredation in P3d V2
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2014, 12:58:43 am »
Great to hear. Looks like 2.2 will bring many fixes and improvements.