General Category > Unofficial F/A-18 Acceleration Pack board
vLSO Beta release
GOONIE:
Want to know what folks are setting natural wind speeds and carrier speed in FSX when using vLSO? For example I use 6 knots of wind (down the angle) and have the ship speed set at 20 knots, so WoD is ~26 knots. With these winds and when flying 'on speed' in the groove (I fly the VRS F/A-18E), my time in groove is +23 seconds, and I get LIG (long in groove) a lot. Seems a 26 knots WoD is realistic, so I am curious what winds/speeds folks use and groove times you get. I ultimately reduce the ship speed to 10-12 knots, at get a 16-18 knot WoD (not sure that is NATOPS legal), and get better groove times (~18seconds).
Does the LSO's groove time requirements change based on WoD in the real world?
Thanks for any thoughts our input on winds and ship speed in relation to groove times (vLSO) in FSX.
SpazSinbad:
In the many references to groove length in my 'deck landing' material the most common is 15-18 seconds followed by '15-20 seconds'. Here is one official reference:
COMCARAIRWING SEVEN INSTRUCTION 1520.1N | Subj: LANDING SIGNAL OFFICER TRAINING/CARRIER LANDING SAFETY PROGRAM
http://www.cvw7.navy.mil/inc/cmodules/dms/download-rel.php?secid=99&id=0&filesystem_id=7199
“...(5) Wind. During normal operations wind calls will be made periodically. During “ZIP LIP,” wind calls will not be made if WOD is 25-30 knots....
...(9) Groove length. Proper groove length is 15-18 seconds, 19-21 seconds will be grades as “little long in the groove.” If it is required to waveoff a LIG aircraft it will be grades as 2.0 points (WOP)....”
Depending on WOD the pilot should adjust base turn position to gain correct groove length. In my time everything was done visually so IF I thought I had misjudged base I would angle in a lot (with more angle of bank initially) before getting in the groove at correct length. When several aircraft in the pattern - especially if arresting - it is important to not be long in the groove (and cause the following aircraft to wave off foul deck).
Paddles:
With WOD >25 I get (LIG) or LIG too. That's perhaps because of FSX glideslope angle, which is steeper than the real one (4.12 vs 3.75 or even 4.12 vs 3.25)?
Can somebody do some FCLP tests with WOD ~26..28 in order to compare groove times?
As for new options to the program - should I provide two frequencies? Say, one for LSO, one for CATCC?
GOONIE:
Thanks Paddles and Spaz,
I think it is a combo of the glideslope and FSX. Do either of you have any info on WoD requirements/limits for F/A-18 during carrier landings? E.g. minimum of 20 knots WoD, max of 40 knots?
"Depending on WOD the pilot should adjust base turn position to gain correct groove length" Does this mean you even if you have turn to get in the groove prior to 3/4NM in order to get the proper groove time, that is ok? What is more important, groove time, or correct start distance (3/4NM)?
Here is my math. On Speed in the SuperHornet, 145kts - WoD 26 kts = 119 kts, which takes ~22 seconds to fly 3/4 NM
I think 26 knots is reasonable WoD right? Wouldn't a higher glideslope (FSX 4.12) be used in high wind conditions? That is what I would like to replicate/simulate without getting a LIG every time.
SpazSinbad:
IMHO the regulation groove TIME is what is important for reason mentioned: When more than one aircraft landing sequentially then it is important to NOT cause the following aircraft (which has likely taken the correct interval at the section break) to wave off because you in front are long in the groove. Usually the LSO will wave off the Long In Groove aircraft very quickly at beginning of their approach so that the 'good guy' can land (the one behind the LIG). When there is no following aircraft then the LIG may be allowed to continue as long as the 'long time is groove is not going to be too long'. Usually LIG means more chance to foul up the approach also. A good approach is a quick one (which is not 'too short in the groove') so the Goldilocks approach is good to go. :-)
I think I have a reference for good Hornet WOD which will be posted here soonish. From Legacy Hornet NATOPS:
"...With a 30-knot wind over the deck begin the 180° turn to the final approach when approximately abeam the LSO platform...."
&
“...For any carrier operations wind is needed to blow over the deck in order to launch & recover aircraft — typically 20 to 30 knots (38-55km/h) aboard the USS Harry S Truman. For safe operations there must be a minimal crosswind & a ship’s roll of no more than two degrees....”
RN weather experts prepare for new carriers with US Navy 9 Nov 12 http://www.noodls.com/view/3FBA6956CA641EAE45D01545F9002FEB4B916EFB
As for high WOD: there is a limit due to factors such as increasing the stress on the aircraft at touchdown (not recognised until a study done on it some decades ago now). Probably there is a reference to this effect already in this thread or on the forum somewhere but anyway here it is again:
EFFECT OF WIND OVER DECK CONDITIONS ON AIRCRAFT APPROACH SPEEDS FOR CARRIER LANDINGS
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA239511 (small PDF)
A heavily edited PDF of the above Main PDF is attached but with all relevant bits.
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